A lifeline to those who must have a manual?
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
A lifeline to those who must have a manual?
https://jalopnik.com/gm-s-new-patent...nua-1829177464
Maybe GM is trying to ya 'all a reason to believe....
Maybe GM is trying to ya 'all a reason to believe....
Last edited by sunsalem; 09-21-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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#4
Le Mans Master
So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.
So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
#6
Le Mans Master
a) take a shifter rod in a 7 gear selection assembly with 7 microswitches. THis enables the TCU to determine which gear the driver wants selected.
b) take the electronically controlled throwout bearing and cockpit potentiometer based clutch pedal. This enables the TCU to engage and disengage the clutch as directed by the drivers left foot.
c) the TCU does all of the decision making.
Senario, driver is cruising along on the interstate at speed limit, and takes exit road. Clutch goes in and driver selects first gear. As long as the clutch is in both DCT clutches are disengaged, the TCU preselects the driver chosen gear. When the driver releases the clutch pedal, teh TCU engages the appropriate DCT clutch for the chosen gear and the driver gets the sensation he is using a manual.
#7
Race Director
The patent has nothing to do with the gear linkage. This is basically just clutch-by-wire. Similar to how they moved to throttle-by-wire back in the early 2000s.
So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.
So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
So it'd still be a traditional three-pedal manual. But instead of hydraulics for the clutch release bearing, there'd be an electronic pedal and an actuator in the bell housing.
So it's possible they could have some sort of partially automated low speed crawl mode for stop and go traffic or parking lot maneuvers. Drop the car in first or second and then drive it like an automatic up to a certain speed. You could also have a clutch pedal that's as light as a little 4 cylinder econobox, but on the other end would be a heavy duty clutch that's clamping on 800 ft-lbs of engine torque. Depending on how they set up the clutch pedal assembly itself, they might even be able to have pedal feel tied to the drive mode selector.
It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, GM does with this.
The technology in the OP could be used for launch control on other vehicles. However, my point is it's not much of a life line if any; the real limited factor on putting a manual in the ME vette is the shift linkage.
#8
Le Mans Master
I understand this. The hard part about putting a shifter in this layout of a vehicle is the shift linkage. It's stupid easy to run hydraulics/anything to activate the slave cylinder. Where you run into issues is on the shift linkage; a push pull cable bend radius is orders of magnitude larger than that of a hydraulic line; it's a lot harder to do.
The technology in the OP could be used for launch control on other vehicles. However, my point is it's not much of a life line if any; the real limited factor on putting a manual in the ME vette is the shift linkage.
The technology in the OP could be used for launch control on other vehicles. However, my point is it's not much of a life line if any; the real limited factor on putting a manual in the ME vette is the shift linkage.
I really think this patent is addressed more to drivability and the tactile experience rather than any packaging issue. It might even have something to do with active fuel management. The manual C7s get a minor driveline shudder when the AFM kicks in. This might help mitigate that by briefly slipping the clutch.
#9
Le Mans Master
Works for me. We have throttle by wire already. The feel of some GM clutches isn't that great anyway, so this could be an improvement. C8 needs a manual.
#10
Race Director
The patent info release is to calm the fears of no manual c8.
not that i want one but chances are there will be a manual c8
not that i want one but chances are there will be a manual c8
#11
Le Mans Master
#12
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#13
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
"....as it could take away the mundane tasks of clutching in and out while in stop and go traffic while making it somewhat future-proof by bringing it into the network of modules that can be centrally controlled by one of the cars computers."
This reads to me as an automatic with clutch pedal, at least some of the time, especially if you don't have to be/do "clutching in and out" at some times. In cruder ways, it's been done before (like the VW in '67) and it can be done again and much improved. But a manual transmission? Hmm, requires a little stretch of definition if you ask me.
This reads to me as an automatic with clutch pedal, at least some of the time, especially if you don't have to be/do "clutching in and out" at some times. In cruder ways, it's been done before (like the VW in '67) and it can be done again and much improved. But a manual transmission? Hmm, requires a little stretch of definition if you ask me.
#14
Melting Slicks
Back when BMW came out with the E60 M5 (SMG only) I test drove a car a company was working on that had a similar setup for the clutch and a gated shifter with force feedback. And you could still drive the car with the paddles and let the computer handle everything for you as well. So the combination of electric clutch and electric shifter is definitely a possibility. They stopped working on it when a year or so later BMW announced they were bringing a manual out (but not 7 speed like the SMG).
#15
Le Mans Master
You know, the manual has another very important function, it's less money. A lot less money actually.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
#16
You know, the manual has another very important function, it's less money. A lot less money actually.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
#18
Melting Slicks
#19
Race Director
Thread Starter
You know, the manual has another very important function, it's less money. A lot less money actually.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
I have to admit as much as I enjoy shifting if the cost difference between a manual and an extremely effective DCT was $0, I'd probably have to buy the DCT.
I do enjoy the manuals better for sure, but I also like the mpg, lower weight, and substantially lower cost they provide.
I would think it wouldn't factor into the equation of someone ready to plop down 70 large on a car.
If it is, then they really can't afford a new car.
#20
Le Mans Master
To be clear, I genuinely prefer the manual. However, if I had to pay the same as a DCT for a manual, when I KNOW the DCT is going to make for a faster car, I'd be really torn. I mean I don't like forced induction either but I wouldn't turn it down for free.
Last edited by Suns_PSD; 09-26-2018 at 09:30 AM.