McLellan, Hill & Wallace talks Mid Engine
10-03-2018, 03:33 PM
#41
Safety Car
Originally Posted by B747VET
Anyone who believes that Corvette can ignore and completely eliminate the cargo and road trip capabilities of the FE coupes, simply doesn’t comprehend the Corvette historical marketplace and the true nature of the fragility of Corvette survival within GM.
10-03-2018, 03:40 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
After reading this I think the ME car will just be another choice in buying a Corvette. Im guessing there will be a C8 mid engine and in a couple of years a C8 front engine car. Dave Hill pretty much said it plain as day that the Front engine Corvette is the most ideal platform as a multi use sports car. What I see happening there will be two kinds of Corvettes The front engine cars will be the Stingray and Grand Sport while the mid engine cars will take the place of the Z06 and Zr1.
The reference to the base price of the M/E to be around 80K puts it smack in the Z06 of today's price point. Its all there Gentlemen you just have to read between the lines and fill in the blanks a little.
The reference to the base price of the M/E to be around 80K puts it smack in the Z06 of today's price point. Its all there Gentlemen you just have to read between the lines and fill in the blanks a little.
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vndkshn (10-04-2018)
10-03-2018, 03:41 PM
#43
Melting Slicks
The basis is the purpose and logic of the ME which is designed to be an uncompromising track car that can beat anything under $200K. As a track car, the Zora has no need for cargo space or road trip capability. It is the replacement for the Z06 and ultimately the ZR1, both of which have excess cargo space. The FE Stingray and GS will have cargo space and fuel economy for road trips. Something for everyone.
10-03-2018, 03:50 PM
#44
Read what Dave hill says about the front engine platform, He says this in a round about way that the F/E design is best for trips and every day use over a M/E design its all there read between the lines the Boys are giving us a lot of clues here.
10-03-2018, 03:53 PM
#45
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Dr. ice
I agree with your comment above. What’s interesting is that half ton pickups cost 55k-65k plus and HD pickups can easily be over $70k. They surpass the cost of many BMW’s and MB’s and every small farming community to city is full of them. Most would call them blue collar as well. However, I agree it’s not really the same as a non-practical two seat sports car. so.
That being said, what that article says to me is this, either the former Corvette bosses know what's going on with the mid engine and are acting like they only have ideas based on the past, or they don't know jack and are spreading disinformation. And all this " I know but can't say how because........" blah. Until it happens it haven't happened. And so far it hasn't happened.
In two years I'll finally be able to afford a new corvette. I'm hoping it'll be one of these new fangled mid engine dealies. But all I know is my cap will be 70,000.00$. So, if they are priced over that with no FE to fall back on, I'll be getting a nice C7 garage queen. Bummer.
Reading all these posts is fun.
It's especially neat to see all the people that complain and complain about something that we can't see in full light.
But then again, these same folks would bitch if their ice cream was cold.
L8erT8erz
10-03-2018, 03:54 PM
#46
Melting Slicks
I have a frunk on my 2017 911S and it still holds an amazing amount of cargo. Granted, not as much as my C7 did but plenty. However, the 911 has more overall than a true ME design due to the back seats that will lay down.
10-03-2018, 04:04 PM
#47
The basis is the purpose and logic of the ME which is designed to be an uncompromising track car that can beat anything under $200K. As a track car, the Zora has no need for cargo space or road trip capability. It is the replacement for the Z06 and ultimately the ZR1, both of which have excess cargo space. The FE Stingray and GS will have cargo space and fuel economy for road trips. Something for everyone.
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skank (10-03-2018)
10-03-2018, 04:04 PM
#48
Pro
The basis is the purpose and logic of the ME which is designed to be an uncompromising track car that can beat anything under $200K. As a track car, the Zora has no need for cargo space or road trip capability. It is the replacement for the Z06 and ultimately the ZR1, both of which have excess cargo space. The FE Stingray and GS will have cargo space and fuel economy for road trips. Something for everyone.
My amateur racing experience taught me how hard it was to beat rear-engined Porsches on the track, so I was an early adopter. And Tadge Juechter’s point of view was that since we’ve tried everything else, we really needed to pursue a mid-engine design. Knowing that the Corvette customer base was aging, marketing was definitely on board with any idea that might attract younger buyers. - Tom Wallace
Younger buyers may be more prone to the track but at the same time, they are more prone to having a family too. Hence the need for, and, the apparent satisfaction of, storage space in the ME. Evidence is the rear deck/hatch. There is a lot more room under that expansive hatch then just an engine will fill. That's where the appeal to the "aging Customer base" is: golf clubs and luggage.
And Dave McLellan went one statement further and suggested new things were stirring in Bowling Green.
I’m not sure if they’re moving or merely broadening the market for Corvettes. - Dave McLellan
He continued to say:
The major investments in the Bowling Green manufacturing facilities, including a new world-class paint shop and a reconfigured assembly line, prove that there is now solid financial support for new Corvettes. Clearly, the corporation and Chevrolet are up to something very special for this car that wasn’t previously in the cards.- Dave McLellan
Dave Hill said it out loud when speaking about manual transmissions in the mix of what their take on customer's desires were:
They wanted a well-built car free of squeaks and rattles. Our studies revealed that Corvette owners prized attractive convertibles that were great to be seen in. It’s important to feed their egos. We also learned that enthusiasm for manual transmissions was fading. - Dave Hill
All this tells me that the engineers know more then they let on to us in day to day existence. Frankly there is no reason for Tadge to render his thoughts and opinions on a forum but this article surely suggests he is thinking hard about what he's giving the public and prior engneers thought equally hard about it.
Last edited by ltomn; 10-03-2018 at 04:07 PM.
10-03-2018, 04:18 PM
#49
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2013
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
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St. Jude Donor'15
I just read this article....outstanding!
10-03-2018, 04:23 PM
#50
Race Director
Hmm. This would suggest the C7 is going to get long in the tooth on design (at minimum, as long as the C6 was around); something Tadge swore he wouldn't let happen again. . .
I'm in no place to doubt what these guys are saying but for some reason, am still dubious.
That stated, it was also mentioned this car would debut before 2019, more specifically at the LA auto show. . . So in two months we can test how credible their information is
SUPPPPPER EXCITED. . .
I'm in no place to doubt what these guys are saying but for some reason, am still dubious.
That stated, it was also mentioned this car would debut before 2019, more specifically at the LA auto show. . . So in two months we can test how credible their information is
SUPPPPPER EXCITED. . .
10-03-2018, 04:33 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
All of this remains to be seen. There are several mentions by all three of the past engineers that have other thoughts. Tom Wallace, the most recent past chief engineer:
My amateur racing experience taught me how hard it was to beat rear-engined Porsches on the track, so I was an early adopter. And Tadge Juechter’s point of view was that since we’ve tried everything else, we really needed to pursue a mid-engine design. Knowing that the Corvette customer base was aging, marketing was definitely on board with any idea that might attract younger buyers. - Tom Wallace
Younger buyers may be more prone to the track but at the same time, they are more prone to having a family too. Hence the need for, and, the apparent satisfaction of, storage space in the ME. Evidence is the rear deck/hatch. There is a lot more room under that expansive hatch then just an engine will fill. That's where the appeal to the "aging Customer base" is: golf clubs and luggage.
And Dave McLellan went one statement further and suggested new things were stirring in Bowling Green.
I’m not sure if they’re moving or merely broadening the market for Corvettes. - Dave McLellan
He continued to say:
The major investments in the Bowling Green manufacturing facilities, including a new world-class paint shop and a reconfigured assembly line, prove that there is now solid financial support for new Corvettes. Clearly, the corporation and Chevrolet are up to something very special for this car that wasn’t previously in the cards.- Dave McLellan
Dave Hill said it out loud when speaking about manual transmissions in the mix of what their take on customer's desires were:
They wanted a well-built car free of squeaks and rattles. Our studies revealed that Corvette owners prized attractive convertibles that were great to be seen in. It’s important to feed their egos. We also learned that enthusiasm for manual transmissions was fading. - Dave Hill
All this tells me that the engineers know more then they let on to us in day to day existence. Frankly there is no reason for Tadge to render his thoughts and opinions on a forum but this article surely suggests he is thinking hard about what he's giving the public and prior engneers thought equally hard about it.
My amateur racing experience taught me how hard it was to beat rear-engined Porsches on the track, so I was an early adopter. And Tadge Juechter’s point of view was that since we’ve tried everything else, we really needed to pursue a mid-engine design. Knowing that the Corvette customer base was aging, marketing was definitely on board with any idea that might attract younger buyers. - Tom Wallace
Younger buyers may be more prone to the track but at the same time, they are more prone to having a family too. Hence the need for, and, the apparent satisfaction of, storage space in the ME. Evidence is the rear deck/hatch. There is a lot more room under that expansive hatch then just an engine will fill. That's where the appeal to the "aging Customer base" is: golf clubs and luggage.
And Dave McLellan went one statement further and suggested new things were stirring in Bowling Green.
I’m not sure if they’re moving or merely broadening the market for Corvettes. - Dave McLellan
He continued to say:
The major investments in the Bowling Green manufacturing facilities, including a new world-class paint shop and a reconfigured assembly line, prove that there is now solid financial support for new Corvettes. Clearly, the corporation and Chevrolet are up to something very special for this car that wasn’t previously in the cards.- Dave McLellan
Dave Hill said it out loud when speaking about manual transmissions in the mix of what their take on customer's desires were:
They wanted a well-built car free of squeaks and rattles. Our studies revealed that Corvette owners prized attractive convertibles that were great to be seen in. It’s important to feed their egos. We also learned that enthusiasm for manual transmissions was fading. - Dave Hill
All this tells me that the engineers know more then they let on to us in day to day existence. Frankly there is no reason for Tadge to render his thoughts and opinions on a forum but this article surely suggests he is thinking hard about what he's giving the public and prior engneers thought equally hard about it.
10-03-2018, 05:16 PM
#52
Pro
10-03-2018, 05:19 PM
#53
Melting Slicks
Haha. I don't know where you live, but where I live, pickup trucks seem to be more of a symbol of status than being used for what they originally were designed for. Most trucks I see usually carry one person, you hardly ever see them with anything in the bed and most seemingly don't come factory standard with a gas pedal or a way to navigate out of the left lane. Sheesh. So, I don't know if you'd call them practical.
That being said, what that article says to me is this, either the former Corvette bosses know what's going on with the mid engine and are acting like they only have ideas based on the past, or they don't know jack and are spreading disinformation. And all this " I know but can't say how because........" blah. Until it happens it haven't happened. And so far it hasn't happened.
In two years I'll finally be able to afford a new corvette. I'm hoping it'll be one of these new fangled mid engine dealies. But all I know is my cap will be 70,000.00$. So, if they are priced over that with no FE to fall back on, I'll be getting a nice C7 garage queen. Bummer.
Reading all these posts is fun.
It's especially neat to see all the people that complain and complain about something that we can't see in full light.
But then again, these same folks would bitch if their ice cream was cold.
L8erT8erz
That being said, what that article says to me is this, either the former Corvette bosses know what's going on with the mid engine and are acting like they only have ideas based on the past, or they don't know jack and are spreading disinformation. And all this " I know but can't say how because........" blah. Until it happens it haven't happened. And so far it hasn't happened.
In two years I'll finally be able to afford a new corvette. I'm hoping it'll be one of these new fangled mid engine dealies. But all I know is my cap will be 70,000.00$. So, if they are priced over that with no FE to fall back on, I'll be getting a nice C7 garage queen. Bummer.
Reading all these posts is fun.
It's especially neat to see all the people that complain and complain about something that we can't see in full light.
But then again, these same folks would bitch if their ice cream was cold.
L8erT8erz
10-03-2018, 06:03 PM
#54
Race Director
SO...
I am still NOT convinced that the FE is dead once the ME is intro'd. The sports car market is shrinking. I'm not sure that it's realistic to expect 30,000+ sales a year from one chassis anymore. Now, do the ME and a couple of years later, come out with a refreshed FE and really make it GT. All the luxury, bells and whistles, etc.
I have NO information about the above, just one man's thoughts.
I am still NOT convinced that the FE is dead once the ME is intro'd. The sports car market is shrinking. I'm not sure that it's realistic to expect 30,000+ sales a year from one chassis anymore. Now, do the ME and a couple of years later, come out with a refreshed FE and really make it GT. All the luxury, bells and whistles, etc.
I have NO information about the above, just one man's thoughts.
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vndkshn (10-04-2018)
10-03-2018, 06:03 PM
#55
Advanced
I was in Bowlingreen this weekend. I talked to the guy that hauls off the plant trash. He got it on good authority that there will definitely be two Covettes. One will be a C8 ME for the tack guys. It will be called a Cor Vette
The other will be an FE for the guys who like to use there’s for trips or groceries or what ever.
This one will be called a Che Vette.
lol
life is to short to get all worked up.
The other will be an FE for the guys who like to use there’s for trips or groceries or what ever.
This one will be called a Che Vette.
lol
life is to short to get all worked up.
10-03-2018, 06:29 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
Sadly, people like you (and I'm like that too) are very few in numbers. Not worth it to produce such a vehicle, unless the "regular" C8 Corvette is a smashing sales success that GM will have spare cash to develop this lightweight animal.
10-03-2018, 08:25 PM
#57
Melting Slicks
The basis is the purpose and logic of the ME which is designed to be an uncompromising track car that can beat anything under $200K. As a track car, the Zora has no need for cargo space or road trip capability. It is the replacement for the Z06 and ultimately the ZR1, both of which have excess cargo space. The FE Stingray and GS will have cargo space and fuel economy for road trips. Something for everyone.
Last edited by fasttoys; 10-03-2018 at 09:49 PM.
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elegant (10-03-2018)
10-03-2018, 09:27 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
First I have to get this off my chest unfortunately the FE is dead gone by by for now. GM can not afford to make both cars it’s not going to happen way to risky. Another point just because a car is an ME doesn’t make it a dedicated track car. My Audi R8 manual was a better long trip car than my manual 2015 Z06. Cargo space was less but if I had to drive one daily the R8 would be my choice all day long. Look at the test cars they are not the Z06 replacements it’s so simple to tell, they are the base ME which will replace the base C7 for now. The Z06 ME will be more aggressive powered by an Overhead Cam Motor which is not in the cars testing today. We are 3 months from reveal unless they show it sooner. If I am wrong in less then 4 months come back to this post and blast away. But I know I am right or I would not be so confident.
nice post.
10-03-2018, 09:34 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Ummm ok! Good luck finding another car that looks as good and performs as good for anything close to what the C7 or C8 may cost! And I'm pretty confident that if Corvette loses their tiny minority of "car poor" buyers due to higher prices, they will gain some new buyers on the other end.
By the way, the base Stingray buyers are not a "tiny minority" as you call them, but rather the largest group of Corvette buyers.
My only question is how you see when driving down the road with your nose so high in the air.
10-03-2018, 09:41 PM
#60
Melting Slicks
One Corvette that does it all? So the new ME will be able to beat any other car under $200K on the track while also being a road car that has cargo space for two people for two weeks, gets good fuel economy and is comfortable to drive long distances. This new Zora will also offer a true convertible and a manual transmission all at a $60K starting price. They will have to change the name to Unicorn.
Nothing wrong with backpedaling .