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I'll make it worth your while. People bring me cars from 100+ miles away just for service because we care and take our time.
The Direct sales model does lose some of the cohesiveness that I think that Corvette deserves between Service, sales, and parts. It may work but I've also sat with people for 5 hours discussing options and being questioned about my opinion regarding equipment. I like having input and helping people decide whats best for them. How mad would you be if you bought a Z07 package and spent $5000 grand more than you had to if you just wanted J57 brakes? The unfortunate part is that the order guide on Corvette is so incredibly complex and custom is that you do need some help to get it all right and not have questions.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks, and I agree that the dealer sales method does create another layer of competition that can be advantageous for the vehicles that demand specialized knowledge. In theory all that sink or swim competition should make for great customer service but unfortunately it seems like Sturgeon's law is in full force.
I think the simple fact that most Chevy products are way cheaper than Corvettes. That fact alone is why I believe it would be smart for GM to market the Corvette for sale at Cadillac dealers (and maybe a few select premium Chevy dealers).
The staff at a typical Chevy dealer usually do not deal with Corvettes and that is a HUGE turn off for me as a buyer. If GM made an actual effort to improve the Cadillac dealer service experience, maybe I would actually buy a brand new c8 and be more likely to use their dealer services.
Furthermore, if they were to create this "brand" of Corvette, and sell it at Cadillac dealers, there would be zero reason to build a "Cadillac" version of the c8....
You can't argue with the fact it's very off-putting that I would take my $150k zr1 to a Chevy dealer that usually services Chevy Malibus and impalas.... I mean come on.
From a business perspective, it makes sense to me.. if they want Cadillac to compete more with the other luxury brands, they need to improve their service across the board. And fine, leave the Chevy dealer service technicians and whatnot to be more basic and not invest a ton of $$ there.. but Cadillac is a premium brand for GM and needs some better service if they want to truly make Cadillac a better brand. The whole "corvette" becoming it's own brand and possibly being sold at cadillac dealers folds right into this.. know what I'm saying?
in summary (my speculation and suggestion to GM)
1) Chevy dealers.. leave as is
2) Make Corvette it's own "brand"
3) sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and possibly certain high volume, established, premium Corvette dealers
4) improve Cadillac dealer service experience, look @ Lexus dealers as model.. which in my mind includes having at least one Corvette specialist technician at each Cadillac dealer
5) don't make Cadillac version of c8, just knock the c8 out of the park from the start
If GM was smart they'd do what I listed above. I know it's a $$ maker and would potentially work better in the long term than their old way, $$ wise and customer satisfaction.
GM, I will accept a c8 as form of payment for my consulting services above.
You make great points and they're points I've actually made to some of my GM friends before. 90% of this, we're in lock step on.
I know a ZR1 is a chevy but it's not just a Chevy. We have one in right now for a track prep and setup. And after that, I'll take it back to the owner and pick up his new Grand Sport to do the same. The point is, the owner doesn't actually care where it's at because we're taking care of it and he knows that we know how to setup a car for him. THAT is the difference. We don't treat people differently, we treat people appropriately. That's not to minimize a Malibu or Cruze owner but to simply recognize the ZR1 and higher end clients who have differing needs.
It can be done my friend. We've proved it. I'd be happy to prove it to you as well.
As far as the Corvette brand and Cadillac Halo, this is a lot of conjecture and with so little facts actually available, I think we're both smart enough to realize that we make good points but that conversation is a rabbit hole that I don't know that I can crawl into right now.
Thanks, and I agree that the dealer sales method does create another layer of competition that can be advantageous for the vehicles that demand specialized knowledge. In theory all that sink or swim competition should make for great customer service but unfortunately it seems like Sturgeon's law is in full force.
When you take the 90% of crap out of the equation, I think you'll find that the top 5-10% are probably pretty good but alas, you are correct. That's what its as important that we go out as ambassadors of the brand and not just the dealer. I'm much more on the track/performance spectrum but my family has been in Corvette's since before I was around so there is some ingrained brand in me anyway. I have an appreciation for the car no matter how it's used.
I think the simple fact that most Chevy products are way cheaper than Corvettes. That fact alone is why I believe it would be smart for GM to market the Corvette for sale at Cadillac dealers (and maybe a few select premium Chevy dealers).
The staff at a typical Chevy dealer usually do not deal with Corvettes and that is a HUGE turn off for me as a buyer. If GM made an actual effort to improve the Cadillac dealer service experience, maybe I would actually buy a brand new c8 and be more likely to use their dealer services.
Furthermore, if they were to create this "brand" of Corvette, and sell it at Cadillac dealers, there would be zero reason to build a "Cadillac" version of the c8....
You can't argue with the fact it's very off-putting that I would take my $150k zr1 to a Chevy dealer that usually services Chevy Malibus and impalas.... I mean come on.
From a business perspective, it makes sense to me.. if they want Cadillac to compete more with the other luxury brands, they need to improve their service across the board. And fine, leave the Chevy dealer service technicians and whatnot to be more basic and not invest a ton of $$ there.. but Cadillac is a premium brand for GM and needs some better service if they want to truly make Cadillac a better brand. The whole "corvette" becoming it's own brand and possibly being sold at cadillac dealers folds right into this.. know what I'm saying?
in summary (my speculation and suggestion to GM)
1) Chevy dealers.. leave as is
2) Make Corvette it's own "brand"
3) sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and possibly certain high volume, established, premium Corvette dealers
4) improve Cadillac dealer service experience, look @ Lexus dealers as model.. which in my mind includes having at least one Corvette specialist technician at each Cadillac dealer
5) don't make Cadillac version of c8, just knock the c8 out of the park from the start
If GM was smart they'd do what I listed above. I know it's a $$ maker and would potentially work better in the long term than their old way, $$ wise and customer satisfaction.
GM, I will accept a c8 as form of payment for my consulting services above.
Unfortunately in my experience Cadillac dealers aren't any more knowledgable than Chevy dealers. When I bought my ATS4 Premium I knew more about it than the sales droid. He tried to tell me that it came with MRC and pointed to the different driving modes available. I had to explain that the modes only controlled throttle and tranny programming (and maybe AWD transaxle) and that MRC is only on the Premium RWD trim because GM were too cheap to develop MRC for both ATS drivetrains. I'm still not sure whether he really didn't know or if he found he could move more units with a few lies.
I know a ZR1 is a chevy but it's not just a Chevy. We have one in right now for a track prep and setup. And after that, I'll take it back to the owner and pick up his new Grand Sport to do the same. The point is, the owner doesn't actually care where it's at because we're taking care of it and he knows that we know how to setup a car for him. THAT is the difference. We don't treat people differently, we treat people appropriately. That's not to minimize a Malibu or Cruze owner but to simply recognize the ZR1 and higher end clients who have differing needs.
Right, people who want Malibus or impalas that's fine.. it's just it's not a $100k, mid engine, complex, specialized vehicle. I think you got my point and we are in agreement.
Originally Posted by Al@MatickChevy
As far as the Corvette brand and Cadillac Halo, this is a lot of conjecture and with so little facts actually available, I think we're both smart enough to realize that we make good points but that conversation is a rabbit hole that I don't know that I can crawl into right now.
I think it'd be too costly and overall foolish for GM to produce a Cadillac branded version of the c8. They would be better off sinking all their $ in THE c8 and just make it awesome..
I always thought it was silly what GM did in the 90s where there was basically the same car under 4 different brands... How would that NOT end up costing the company more overhead. It was obvious to me at least, idk. I mean, it seems fine to have a more economy version of a high volume car and maybe a more premium one.. a la Silverado vs Sierra, etc.. but those are all hgih volume vehicles. The Corvette is pretty low volume and as such, they should go all in and just make it the best it can be under the c8 name itself (and theoretical Corvette brand so to speak)
Unfortunately in my experience Cadillac dealers aren't any more knowledgable than Chevy dealers. When I bought my ATS4 Premium I knew more about it than the sales droid. He tried to tell me that it came with MRC and pointed to the different driving modes available. I had to explain that the modes only controlled throttle and tranny programming (and maybe AWD transaxle) and that MRC is only on the Premium RWD trim because GM were too cheap to develop MRC for both ATS drivetrains. I'm still not sure whether he really didn't know or if he found he could move more units with a few lies.
Well part of what I said was the Cadillac dealer experience needs to be inproved across the board to have a higher standard.. GM needs to get in there and work with the Cadillac dealers to make it happen..
I mean, are they in the car business or what..? Invest in your company and grow to be a better company if you want to compete on the luxury level.. IMO..
I can let it slide if the Chevy sales guy doesn't know **** and if Chevy dealer service sucks if at least Cadillac sales and service were consistently better
The Corvette has been departing it's status as a sport car and becoming more and more of a supercar... As such, I have personally heard a lot of issues with Chevy's dealers properly servicing the cars. I.E. way low oil, way over filled oil, incorrectly lifting the car, damaged rocker panels, other body damage.. etc...
With that said, that leads me to have a few hypothetical questions...
1) Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers? Don't they do that in Europe?
2) why doesn't GM have specialized Corvette technicians at Cadillac dealers since they naturally have to deal with hgiher end cars.. ats-v, cts-v, etc...
Sorry if this is a dumbass question, but if you buy a new Camaro, Corvette, or Silverado, can you have warranty repairs done at Cadillac dealers?
This was my thought in a thread back in June as well as making it a separate brand:
A lot of Chevy dealers own Cadillac dealerships as well. ELCO has their Chevy and Cadillac dealerships right next to each other on Manchester Rd. in suburban St. Louis. Same for Buick and GMC dealerships. You need truck sales to make it today as a "car" dealer, so you see these "pairing-ups" all over the place now.
As far as Corvette goes, it is not like any other car GM sells - not Cadillac, Chevy or Buick. ELCO has Corvette specialists who don't service anything else. When you make an appt. with ELCO they make it when their specialists are available.
The Corvette has been departing it's status as a sport car and becoming more and more of a supercar... As such, I have personally heard a lot of issues with Chevy's dealers properly servicing the cars. I.E. way low oil, way over filled oil, incorrectly lifting the car, damaged rocker panels, other body damage.. etc...
With that said, that leads me to have a few hypothetical questions...
1) Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers? Don't they do that in Europe?
2) why doesn't GM have specialized Corvette technicians at Cadillac dealers since they naturally have to deal with hgiher end cars.. ats-v, cts-v, etc...
Sorry if this is a dumbass question, but if you buy a new Camaro, Corvette, or Silverado, can you have warranty repairs done at Cadillac dealers?
Since the bankruptcy I think you can get any GM vehicle repaired at any GM dealership. Training could be lacking if you happen to be at a Buick/GMC dealership but they have access to all of the service information and all of the general support equipment. If certain repairs require tools they don't use in servicing Buicks/GMCs they may have to tell you sorry we can't do it but in general they should be able to repair anything on any GM car as most of the parts are common.
The dealership where I get my car serviced is a Chevrolet/Buick/GMC/Cadillac shop so I do get my Corvette serviced by the Corvette Mechanic who also services my GMC Terrain and my Tahoe. He also services Cadillacs.
The quality of service really doesn't depend on the brand of car the dealership sells. it depends on the management of the dealership and what they insist their employees do. Nowadays, with many dealers selling and servicing several different brands if their Chevy dealership has poor service it is highly likely their Toyota, VW and BMW dealerships have the same poor service quality.
Bill
It's no accident they brought back (and stressed it) the Stingray name. When was the last Corvette specifically (even in marketing) tied to the Stingray name?
That's why I think we will (eventually if not right away) see both a FE and ME car, both called Corvettes, but the FE one called Stingray and the ME Manta Ray or Zora (I'm betting on Zora).
From there, changing the dealer network, or splitting it (Corvette) off to it's own sub brand and selling at Caddy dealers wouldn't be an end of the world situation. I know the "local" Caddy dealer experience (at all levels) is a million times better than the local Chevy dealer.
I'm not too keen on those two new names, I think going with the current naming convention (Stingray, GS, Z06, ZR1 and maybe the Zora at the very top or hybrid AWD) for the C8 is fine. The Manta reminds me of the Opel Manta that was around in the 70s and Zora sounds like Zorba the Greek.
I think I have an outstanding Chevrolet dealer locally, but my Cadillac dealer is a lot nicer place with less cheap cars sitting around both in the new car lot as well in the service bays. I am much less nervous leaving my new ATS-V at the Cadillac store than I am leaving my Z06 at the Chevy store.
I felt the same way when I brought my car to the dealer, for service. Then I found out, that they have a Master Tech, that only works on Corvettes. I had brought the car back to the dealer, to get something checked, shortly after I bought it, and the dealer stopped washing cars, a few years ago, as part of service, due to the California drought, a few years ago, and never started washing cars, again. They washed, my car, vacuumed it out, and the car was delivered to me with their standard generic paper license plate. They even switched that out for their "motorsports" plate. a few months later, I took it in, for the first oil change, and the same Tech worked on my car.
He drives the car back, puts it on the lift that they have setup, just for Corvettes, does all of the work, and drives the car back to detail when its done. And after the oil was changed. I got the car home, and checked the oil (dry sump) it was perfectly filled. They only offer Mobile 1 oil changes for the Corvettes, from what my service writer told me. But having one tech that is master certified to work on corvettes, and to see only him work on my car, from start to finish, and getting home, and seeing that everything was done correctly, really put me at ease about taking my car to the stealership. I also take my 2017 Cruze Hatch, there, but they run that thing through their service assembly line.
I also had the MRSC update done, and was trying to explain it to the service writer. I gave the service writer the information from the update, and he called GM to get the thing started. The tech line told the service writer that the car had to sit for 8-10 hours before it could be driven, and that they didn't recommend getting it done, unless I wanted to leave the car, overnight. Well, I asked to talk to the Master Tech, and he even told the service writer the same story, that the car could be driven, just the adjustment wouldn't be completed, until the car sat. The Master Tech, told the service writer, that the BCM had an internal clock setup for the program. I laughed inside when I heard that, but I guess it could be true. Like the car wouldn't complete the final installation task until that timer ran down.. Who knows, but, at least the tech agreed that the car could be driven. And he wrote it as such in the comments on the receipt.
Last edited by Z51VetteFan; 10-17-2018 at 02:59 AM.
It's no accident they brought back (and stressed it) the Stingray name. When was the last Corvette specifically (even in marketing) tied to the Stingray name?
That's why I think we will (eventually if not right away) see both a FE and ME car, both called Corvettes, but the FE one called Stingray and the ME Manta Ray or Zora (I'm betting on Zora).
From there, changing the dealer network, or splitting it (Corvette) off to it's own sub brand and selling at Caddy dealers wouldn't be an end of the world situation. I know the "local" Caddy dealer experience (at all levels) is a million times better than the local Chevy dealer.
That may be true in specific instances but in General it isn't true. Service quality all depends on the owner of the dealership and what they require their employees to do. It has nothing to do with the brand. If it was brand related the volume dealerships that sell cars in the more popular price ranges would be epitome's of service quality since their sales could change drastically due to competition with other dealerships of the same or other brands. In most areas of the country Cadillac dealerships are co-located with other GM brands so the dealership has sufficient volume to survive. About 30 years ago I remember a local Chevy dealership purchased the local BMW dealership. The BMW dealership had an excellent service reputation and local Mercedes owners took their cars there because the Mercedes dealership was terrible. After the Chevy dealer purchased the BMW dealership they moved it to their Chevy location and made room for it in their show room and service bays. I happened to be walking into the service area to arrange service for my Corvette when I passed by the BMW Service Manager's office and over heard a conversation. The overall site Service Manager (and Chevy Service Manager) was chewing out the BMW Service Manager about something that was done to screw a BMW Customer and that he would be fired if he ever let that happen again. He was reminded that BMW sales were a small percentage of Chevy sales and if word passed around that anybody had been treated wrongly at this dealership it would hurt Chevy sales more than BMW sales.
Service is totally dependent upon where you live. Here the Cadillac dealer is the Chevy dealer. In fact they are the Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler, Jeep, Ram dealer. Same techs for all.
For some of the so called better brands you have to make major trip to get to them. For me the Lexus dealer is two hours away, BMW & Mercedes about 3 hours, and the high end cars like Ferrari you have an 8 hour drive. What good is it for a high end dealer to have fancy facilities and great service if you have to load up your car and ship it to the dealer?
For a a large part of the country, what you have is what you got.
Since the bankruptcy I think you can get any GM vehicle repaired at any GM dealership. Training could be lacking if you happen to be at a Buick/GMC dealership but they have access to all of the service information and all of the general support equipment. If certain repairs require tools they don't use in servicing Buicks/GMCs they may have to tell you sorry we can't do it but in general they should be able to repair anything on any GM car as most of the parts are common.
The dealership where I get my car serviced is a Chevrolet/Buick/GMC/Cadillac shop so I do get my Corvette serviced by the Corvette Mechanic who also services my GMC Terrain and my Tahoe. He also services Cadillacs.
The quality of service really doesn't depend on the brand of car the dealership sells. it depends on the management of the dealership and what they insist their employees do. Nowadays, with many dealers selling and servicing several different brands if their Chevy dealership has poor service it is highly likely their Toyota, VW and BMW dealerships have the same poor service quality.
Bill
Well, except they ARE different dealerships, very likely located in different locations. But most importantly, they are each SEPARATE profit centers for the owner/corporation. So, if a Gen. Mgr. can make the case that providing good, or great service makes the dealership more profit, the BMW or Toyota agency may do things differently from the Chev dealer.
Service is totally dependent upon where you live. Here the Cadillac dealer is the Chevy dealer. In fact they are the Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, Chrysler, Jeep, Ram dealer. Same techs for all.
For some of the so called better brands you have to make major trip to get to them. For me the Lexus dealer is two hours away, BMW & Mercedes about 3 hours, and the high end cars like Ferrari you have an 8 hour drive. What good is it for a high end dealer to have fancy facilities and great service if you have to load up your car and ship it to the dealer?
For a a large part of the country, what you have is what you got.
Household incomes on average tend to be higher near major population centers/metro areas. So it's really not that far a drive for most Ferrari owners to the nearest dealership, certainly not 8 hours for the majority...or even BMW, Mercedes owners (if they are living within their means).
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 10-17-2018 at 03:41 PM.
10-16-2018, 03:32 PM
