Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers in US?
10-16-2018, 12:14 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers in US?
The Corvette has been departing it's status as a sport car and becoming more and more of a supercar... As such, I have personally heard a lot of issues with Chevy's dealers properly servicing the cars. I.E. way low oil, way over filled oil, incorrectly lifting the car, damaged rocker panels, other body damage.. etc...
With that said, that leads me to have a few hypothetical questions...
1) Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers? Don't they do that in Europe?
2) why doesn't GM have specialized Corvette technicians at Cadillac dealers since they naturally have to deal with hgiher end cars.. ats-v, cts-v, etc...
Sorry if this is a dumbass question, but if you buy a new Camaro, Corvette, or Silverado, can you have warranty repairs done at Cadillac dealers?
With that said, that leads me to have a few hypothetical questions...
1) Why doesn't GM just sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers? Don't they do that in Europe?
2) why doesn't GM have specialized Corvette technicians at Cadillac dealers since they naturally have to deal with hgiher end cars.. ats-v, cts-v, etc...
Sorry if this is a dumbass question, but if you buy a new Camaro, Corvette, or Silverado, can you have warranty repairs done at Cadillac dealers?
Last edited by mammoth713; 10-16-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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ArmchairArchitect (10-16-2018)
10-16-2018, 05:16 AM
#2
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I think they have talked internally about this a lot
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
Last edited by Sin City; 10-16-2018 at 05:18 AM.
10-16-2018, 06:30 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
I think that we’ll see less and less Chevy dealers that sell Corvettes, and each of those dealers should have a sign with Corvette branding on it, either separate from or just below the Chevy sign.
Selling the Corvette in Cadillac dealerships makes it not a Chevrolet, but it’s not a Cadillac. They’d have to make Corvette an official brand, which takes money, resources, and it must have more models than a series of C8s.
Selling the Corvette in Cadillac dealerships makes it not a Chevrolet, but it’s not a Cadillac. They’d have to make Corvette an official brand, which takes money, resources, and it must have more models than a series of C8s.
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ArmchairArchitect (10-16-2018)
10-16-2018, 09:36 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I think they have talked internally about this a lot
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
I think that we’ll see less and less Chevy dealers that sell Corvettes, and each of those dealers should have a sign with Corvette branding on it, either separate from or just below the Chevy sign.
Selling the Corvette in Cadillac dealerships makes it not a Chevrolet, but it’s not a Cadillac. They’d have to make Corvette an official brand, which takes money, resources, and it must have more models than a series of C8s.
Selling the Corvette in Cadillac dealerships makes it not a Chevrolet, but it’s not a Cadillac. They’d have to make Corvette an official brand, which takes money, resources, and it must have more models than a series of C8s.
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10-16-2018, 09:46 AM
#5
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I think the best move is to make Corvette a sub-brand (they've already been moving in this direction, the past few Corvette gens have almost zero Chevrolet badging so you forget its even a Chevrolet).
Corvette can be a sub-brand and yet still sold and serviced at select Cadillac (preferred) or Chevrolet dealerships. Other auto manufacturers already do this.
Corvette can be a sub-brand and yet still sold and serviced at select Cadillac (preferred) or Chevrolet dealerships. Other auto manufacturers already do this.
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10-16-2018, 09:56 AM
#6
Chevy dealers suck. They're only good for pickup trucks. Because that's how they threat your $100,000+ Corvette.
Just like Toyota did with Lexus, Corvette should be either in Cadillac or Sub-brand name.
But it's too late now. That car is being made under Chevy name and parts.
Just like Toyota did with Lexus, Corvette should be either in Cadillac or Sub-brand name.
But it's too late now. That car is being made under Chevy name and parts.
10-16-2018, 09:59 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
My experience is that Cadillac dealer service was nothing more than Chevy standards with higher prices (and nicer waiting rooms). That's why our 'back seat' cars have been high end Euros since the mid 1980's.
We've had over a dozen Corvettes since 1968 and the only significant 'downside' was/is having to go to the Chevy store for service. While they seem to try, that high volume 'herd' mentality is difficult to overcome. When you show up with a near $100K car, you're still just one person/vehicle in a mob scene.
Trust me..... it's VERY different at the Mercedes store, not to mention Jaguar, Ferrari and Aston Martin. Yeah, you pay a bit more, but you're treated like they really value your business and care about you AND your car.
Here's something GM could try.... At our local MB store, EVERY new hire (management through janitorial) has to go through 3 days of customer satisfaction/customer focus training BEFORE they start. It includes everything from customer etiquette, grooming, work place appearance, and customer interaction. They get paid while undergoing the training too! Why do you think their service is better? By the way, it's also a part of their incentive compensation. Heck the Chevy store doesn't teach the 'grease monkeys' the difference between a conventional and 'dry sump' oil change!
We've had over a dozen Corvettes since 1968 and the only significant 'downside' was/is having to go to the Chevy store for service. While they seem to try, that high volume 'herd' mentality is difficult to overcome. When you show up with a near $100K car, you're still just one person/vehicle in a mob scene.
Trust me..... it's VERY different at the Mercedes store, not to mention Jaguar, Ferrari and Aston Martin. Yeah, you pay a bit more, but you're treated like they really value your business and care about you AND your car.
Here's something GM could try.... At our local MB store, EVERY new hire (management through janitorial) has to go through 3 days of customer satisfaction/customer focus training BEFORE they start. It includes everything from customer etiquette, grooming, work place appearance, and customer interaction. They get paid while undergoing the training too! Why do you think their service is better? By the way, it's also a part of their incentive compensation. Heck the Chevy store doesn't teach the 'grease monkeys' the difference between a conventional and 'dry sump' oil change!
10-16-2018, 10:03 AM
#9
Premium Supporting Dealership
I think if you sub branded anything, it would be all performance variants. Corvette, V series and Camaro. Have it fall under the "Performance" brand and have specialized staff. After all, V series cars now are Alpha's just like Camaro. Corvette slots in nicely. If GM wants to give it a go, I'll volunteer.
The real issue in my mind is the lack of cohesion between Performance, Sales, service and parts. I actually oversee the cars in all departments so if someone is coming in for a track prep, I see it through and discuss specs to fit what track the car is going to. Consolidating that experience helps customers quite a bit. If they don't have the house divided, they're more likely to come back.
The key is having someone who is acclimated to the cars both statistically and dynamically. Most people can study an order guide, very few can understand the handling, cooling, and driving dynamics of those platforms. Go talk to any of the "Top" Vette salesman and ask them to explain dynamic toe change or ride steer. These reasons are why people come to us. I have a National Champion SCCA autocrosser coming to trade in his car he bought from one of the "Top" vette guys because I built the car to do what he wants it to and understand the driving dynamics. He's driving 5 hours further to deal with me than he has to.
The formula is simple in my opinion. Finding the right guy to do that, different story. So far, I don't know anyone else that would be able to tackle that job.
The real issue in my mind is the lack of cohesion between Performance, Sales, service and parts. I actually oversee the cars in all departments so if someone is coming in for a track prep, I see it through and discuss specs to fit what track the car is going to. Consolidating that experience helps customers quite a bit. If they don't have the house divided, they're more likely to come back.
The key is having someone who is acclimated to the cars both statistically and dynamically. Most people can study an order guide, very few can understand the handling, cooling, and driving dynamics of those platforms. Go talk to any of the "Top" Vette salesman and ask them to explain dynamic toe change or ride steer. These reasons are why people come to us. I have a National Champion SCCA autocrosser coming to trade in his car he bought from one of the "Top" vette guys because I built the car to do what he wants it to and understand the driving dynamics. He's driving 5 hours further to deal with me than he has to.
The formula is simple in my opinion. Finding the right guy to do that, different story. So far, I don't know anyone else that would be able to tackle that job.
10-16-2018, 10:39 AM
#10
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We are fortunate in the Central New York area to have numerous Chevrolet dealers to choose from - and three of them are sponsors of our local Corvette Club. It takes a little effort on the part of the Corvette owner, but between preliminary visits to prospective dealers and service departments of choice, and networking among club members, it quickly becomes apparent which dealerships have one or more "Corvette Guys" who specialize in our cars and know what the hell they're doing. In most cases they are C7 owners themselves. Find those guys. Go there.
10-16-2018, 10:55 AM
#11
Drifting
Thanks Al, now I know where I'll be buying my C8. Redford is a bit far but so far every Chevy dealer I've dealt with is nice but clueless or, in the case of Sundance, puts out a vibe like it's run by mobsters.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
Last edited by Zaro Tundov; 10-16-2018 at 10:57 AM.
10-16-2018, 11:11 AM
#12
Safety Car
John Erwin at Greico Chevrolet in Ft Lauderdale is the best Corvette mechanic in the south. He has been there since the early 80s where we held our NCCC meets. It was Gary Fronrath Chev then.
10-16-2018, 11:22 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Thanks Al, now I know where I'll be buying my C8. Redford is a bit far but so far every Chevy dealer I've dealt with is nice but clueless or, in the case of Sundance, puts out a vibe like it's run by mobsters.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
I think the most reasonable thing would be if they started selling Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and also had better Cadillac dealer staff... I have had relatively good experience with Lexus dealer service... How was Lexus able to pull it off?
10-16-2018, 11:35 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
I think the best move is to make Corvette a sub-brand (they've already been moving in this direction, the past few Corvette gens have almost zero Chevrolet badging so you forget its even a Chevrolet).
Corvette can be a sub-brand and yet still sold and serviced at select Cadillac (preferred) or Chevrolet dealerships. Other auto manufacturers already do this.
Corvette can be a sub-brand and yet still sold and serviced at select Cadillac (preferred) or Chevrolet dealerships. Other auto manufacturers already do this.
That's why I think we will (eventually if not right away) see both a FE and ME car, both called Corvettes, but the FE one called Stingray and the ME Manta Ray or Zora (I'm betting on Zora).
From there, changing the dealer network, or splitting it (Corvette) off to it's own sub brand and selling at Caddy dealers wouldn't be an end of the world situation. I know the "local" Caddy dealer experience (at all levels) is a million times better than the local Chevy dealer.
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ArmchairArchitect (10-16-2018)
10-16-2018, 12:09 PM
#15
I think they have talked internally about this a lot
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
I think there are several reasons
1) there are different demographics between Caddy and Chevy dealers. A guy walking into a Caddy dealer isn't necessarily looking for a 2 seat sports car.
2) I think Chevy dealers like having an exclusive halo car
3) Even with the C7 GM limited the Chevy dealers who could sell them. If you didn't sell enough in the past you couldn't get the C7. They are looking for fewer dealers, not more
4) It might be rather expensive to have parts and service ALSO at Caddy dealers
But I am quite sure they will make a Caddy version of the C8 somehow. It will look different but have a lot of the same stuff with more luxury features and interior
10-16-2018, 02:57 PM
#16
Premium Supporting Dealership
Don't get me wrong, I hate dealers, but I think this is a bit pie in the sky. It would cost a fortune for them to go around the existing dealer network.
I think the most reasonable thing would be if they started selling Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and also had better Cadillac dealer staff... I have had relatively good experience with Lexus dealer service... How was Lexus able to pull it off?
I think the most reasonable thing would be if they started selling Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and also had better Cadillac dealer staff... I have had relatively good experience with Lexus dealer service... How was Lexus able to pull it off?
I think the same challenge exists for caddy as Chevy. It's going to take someone to care to be involved at all levels of the dealer.
10-16-2018, 03:02 PM
#17
Corvette will always be Chevrolet's halo car. That will NEVER change. smoking 420 puts strange thoughts in peoples heads 
10-16-2018, 03:04 PM
#18
Premium Supporting Dealership
Thanks Al, now I know where I'll be buying my C8. Redford is a bit far but so far every Chevy dealer I've dealt with is nice but clueless or, in the case of Sundance, puts out a vibe like it's run by mobsters.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
Honestly I think GM should go to the Tesla direct sales model. It gives them complete control over the presentation and customer support for their product. Dealer middle men result in a buffer between GM and product reliability and customer service. One bad dealer can turn thousands of customers away from GM cars for life. Non-warranty repairs are hidden from the engineers and the dealers love the cash flow. It's all one great sh tshow.
A GM performance brand would be the perfect beginning for GM to open their own showrooms for direct sales.
The Direct sales model does lose some of the cohesiveness that I think that Corvette deserves between Service, sales, and parts. It may work but I've also sat with people for 5 hours discussing options and being questioned about my opinion regarding equipment. I like having input and helping people decide whats best for them. How mad would you be if you bought a Z07 package and spent $5000 grand more than you had to if you just wanted J57 brakes? The unfortunate part is that the order guide on Corvette is so incredibly complex and custom is that you do need some help to get it all right and not have questions.
Just my 2 cents.
10-16-2018, 03:11 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I think the only real issue there is what makes a Cadillac staff better suited for Corvette? Outside of a few heavy hitters(Sewell Cadillac) that deal in V cars, how would the situation improve? Furthermore, what if Cadillac has a platform sharing Halo car with Corvette? It may not be confirmed but I've said since Johan took the job, we're going to end up with an R8 competitor. I know hes gone but I have a hard time thinking that there wont be a Cadillac that accompanies the C8. I have no way to substantiate that other than a guess from a guy that has been in the business for a lot of years.
I think the same challenge exists for caddy as Chevy. It's going to take someone to care to be involved at all levels of the dealer.
I think the same challenge exists for caddy as Chevy. It's going to take someone to care to be involved at all levels of the dealer.
The staff at a typical Chevy dealer usually do not deal with Corvettes and that is a HUGE turn off for me as a buyer. If GM made an actual effort to improve the Cadillac dealer service experience, maybe I would actually buy a brand new c8 and be more likely to use their dealer services.
Furthermore, if they were to create this "brand" of Corvette, and sell it at Cadillac dealers, there would be zero reason to build a "Cadillac" version of the c8....
You can't argue with the fact it's very off-putting that I would take my $150k zr1 to a Chevy dealer that usually services Chevy Malibus and impalas.... I mean come on.
From a business perspective, it makes sense to me.. if they want Cadillac to compete more with the other luxury brands, they need to improve their service across the board. And fine, leave the Chevy dealer service technicians and whatnot to be more basic and not invest a ton of $$ there.. but Cadillac is a premium brand for GM and needs some better service if they want to truly make Cadillac a better brand. The whole "corvette" becoming it's own brand and possibly being sold at cadillac dealers folds right into this.. know what I'm saying?
in summary (my speculation and suggestion to GM)
1) Chevy dealers.. leave as is
2) Make Corvette it's own "brand"
3) sell Corvettes at Cadillac dealers and possibly certain high volume, established, premium Corvette dealers
4) improve Cadillac dealer service experience, look @ Lexus dealers as model.. which in my mind includes having at least one Corvette specialist technician at each Cadillac dealer
5) don't make Cadillac version of c8, just knock the c8 out of the park from the start
If GM was smart they'd do what I listed above. I know it's a $$ maker and would potentially work better in the long term than their old way, $$ wise and customer satisfaction.
GM, I will accept a c8 as form of payment for my consulting services above.
If GM was smart they'd do what I listed above. I know it's a $$ maker and would potentially work better in the long term than their old way, $$ wise and customer satisfaction.
GM, I will accept a c8 as form of payment for my consulting services above.
Last edited by mammoth713; 10-16-2018 at 03:25 PM.
10-16-2018, 03:30 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
Much as not every Mercedes Benz dealership is also an AMG dealer, the same should be enacted for Chevrolet dealers re: being able to sell/service the Corvette.
How many dealerships to this day(!) don't know that rear caster is adjustable on the C7 version, or have made the minimal investment necessary to perform an accurate alignment?
How many don't check the fluid levels; (rear diff anyone?), as they should during a PDI?
How many dealerships don't give a damn when an owner asks specifically for Mobil 1 oil; (the recommended oil btw), and only wants to dump in their 'Dextros' oil?
The C7 Corvette is such an incredible car. Build standards/materials many times are very close to 'Germanic' levels, and the 'Performance' is staggering. What the car and Corvette brand needs though is the commitment from GM, and a dealership that wishes to sell the car, to the highest standards of Sales and Service. Sadly even a good sales experience is ruined by poor after sales servicing, and it happens all to often.
Bish
How many dealerships to this day(!) don't know that rear caster is adjustable on the C7 version, or have made the minimal investment necessary to perform an accurate alignment?
How many don't check the fluid levels; (rear diff anyone?), as they should during a PDI?
How many dealerships don't give a damn when an owner asks specifically for Mobil 1 oil; (the recommended oil btw), and only wants to dump in their 'Dextros' oil?
The C7 Corvette is such an incredible car. Build standards/materials many times are very close to 'Germanic' levels, and the 'Performance' is staggering. What the car and Corvette brand needs though is the commitment from GM, and a dealership that wishes to sell the car, to the highest standards of Sales and Service. Sadly even a good sales experience is ruined by poor after sales servicing, and it happens all to often.
Bish
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