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The front fender pictures posted by FVS above do have me a bit concerned. I just went to the garage and looked at my C7, and the space from top of wheel opening to top of hood is proportionately much taller. I can only hope those are pirated shots of "camo" fenders and not the real deal.
like it or not, this image of the front fenders show exactly how much space there is between the wheel well and the top of the fender. Of course the image is taken at a top down angle so it appears deeper than it actually is. You must compare the headlight opening on the side to get a better idea of the thickness.
Jees, I withdraw my comment. That's just horrible. Do you think the camo guys are this sophisticated? What lengths will they go to to fool us?
The front fender pictures posted by FVS above do have me a bit concerned. I just went to the garage and looked at my C7, and the space from top of wheel opening to top of hood is proportionately much taller. I can only hope those are pirated shots of "camo" fenders and not the real deal.
I do agree this is far more pleasing.
dont be TOO concerned. The angles make the perceived height look more than it is. The surface distance seen on the fenders is greater than the actual side cross section.
Jees, I withdraw my comment. That's just horrible. Do you think the camo guys are this sophisticated? What lengths will they go to to fool us?
Producing a few faux panels is neither difficult, nor sophisticated. I'm certainly NOT suggesting that's what GM did, but I remain hopeful the real deal is being hidden a lot more than some think.
I wasn't going to say anything but it needs to be said because the critics are right. You are all over the place Chaz. But, instead of just talking **** I'll give some constructive feedback that nobody else seems to be able to do despite their "expertise".
I'll point out two critical areas that are the worst offenders.
#1 The door crease 3/4" the way up the door isn't correct. The front bumper's side inlets don't flow towards that door crease, they angle up much more which completely disrupts the flow of the design. you are literally going in 5 different directions instead of 1. Blue, red, pink, orange and green are your 5 different directions. There is one cohesive direction I'll point out below.
#2 Your belt line is too high at the bottom of the side window, and your 1/4 window shape is wrong. The C8.R spy shots shows that shape and flow 100% accurate to production. There is a fake panel over the top of the door, and quarter window misdirecting all of this on the street cars and you have traced the fake line and it really doesn't look right at all. I outlined the correct window shape in black. Green is your approximate lines. again, note the semi-transparent line showing the flow direction from front, to side to back. It's one direction, not 5.
Hope this helps! I know controlling these cage models are really difficult and it requires a lot of time and patience. I appreciate that.
dont be TOO concerned. The angles make the perceived height look more than it is. The surface distance seen on the fenders is greater than the actual side cross section.
You mean something like this? Still high and very wide.
Did we ever get the story about how a random dealer in Lousiville got his hands on these panels? It was so odd and out of the blue. The fact that Billy Bob the dealer has panels from the car, shows that the car is not as well hidden as everyone thinks. Thousands of people have seen the car, most just don't post on the forum, and when they do, they get accused of being a pretender, making stuff up, and generally pushed off the forum. Why would anyone post actual knowledge of the car here if that is the kind of welcome they get.
You mean something like this? Still high and very wide.
just estimated based on the 19in front wheel size. I am "guessing" the actual ortho side cross section of the fender panel just above the wheel to be about 4in.
I'm not making a judgment on the merits of the design, just what is visible.
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-23-2019 at 12:19 PM.
just estimated based on the 19in front wheel size. I am "guessing" the actual ortho side cross section of the fender panel just above the wheel to be about 4in.
Not that it's valid to relate the two, but that would be roughly comparable to the C7 fenders, which I just did a rough side ortho measurement of in my garage. Pictures of components can certainly be deceiving.
Did we ever get the story about how a random dealer in Lousiville got his hands on these panels? It was so odd and out of the blue. The fact that Billy Bob the dealer has panels from the car, shows that the car is not as well hidden as everyone thinks. Thousands of people have seen the car, most just don't post on the forum, and when they do, they get accused of being a pretender, making stuff up, and generally pushed off the forum. Why would anyone post actual knowledge of the car here if that is the kind of welcome they get.
It is interesting that he posted these all that time ago. He also made other claims more recently.
He never claimed to have the fenders or to have seen them himself I don't think. I think he only got these images. Could be wrong.
I wasn't going to say anything but it needs to be said because the critics are right. You are all over the place Chaz. But, instead of just talking **** I'll give some constructive feedback that nobody else seems to be able to do despite their "expertise".
I'll point out two critical areas that are the worst offenders.
#1 The door crease 3/4" the way up the door isn't correct. The front bumper's side inlets don't flow towards that door crease, they angle up much more which completely disrupts the flow of the design. you are literally going in 5 different directions instead of 1. Blue, red, pink, orange and green are your 5 different directions. There is one cohesive direction I'll point out below.
#2 Your belt line is too high at the bottom of the side window, and your 1/4 window shape is wrong. The C8.R spy shots shows that shape and flow 100% accurate to production. There is a fake panel over the top of the door, and quarter window misdirecting all of this on the street cars and you have traced the fake line and it really doesn't look right at all. I outlined the correct window shape in black. Green is your approximate lines. again, note the semi-transparent line showing the flow direction from front, to side to back. It's one direction, not 5.
Hope this helps! I know controlling these cage models are really difficult and it requires a lot of time and patience. I appreciate that.
Really appreciate the efforts of Chaz and Bds in making 3d models! Especially Chaz learning a whole new software just to entertain us! ; ) ! Thanks Chaz!
Not as tough as trying to make a 3d model but I made a new 2d render trying to balance the varying info and ideas we have all shared. Tried to get the lines and shapes as close as possible. This "feels" more balanced to me. May not be 100% but looks pretty reasonable to me.
Still would love to know the final scoop solution GM came up with. I am sure we are in for some surprises ! ; )
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-23-2019 at 12:32 PM.
Really appreciate the efforts of Chaz and Bds in making 3d models! Especially Chaz learning a whole new software just to entertain us! ; ) ! Thanks Chaz!
Not as tough as trying to make a 3d model but I made a new 2d render trying to balance the varying info and ideas we have all shared. Tried to get the lines and shapes as close as possible. This "feels" more balanced to me. May not be 100% but looks pretty reasonable to me.
Still would love to know the final scoop solution GM came up with. I am sure we are in for some surprises ! ; )
Nice. Why did you remove the RHS wheels? I use a pencil because these graphic programs have minds of their own. I'm being a bit tough on Chaz, it is very difficult to do what he is doing. It doesn't always go the way you want it to. I'll try to behave. Foam and clay is a very pleasing way to do things. What program do you use?
Nice. Why did you remove the RHS wheels? I use a pencil because these graphic programs have minds of their own. I'm being a bit tough on Chaz, it is very difficult to do what he is doing. It doesn't always go the way you want it to. I'll try to behave. Foam and clay is a very pleasing way to do things. What program do you use?
; )
For these renders I use photoshop.
I also believe there is no replacement for pencil. Beyond that, sculpting it in 3d goes light years beyond any 3d software. 3D and RP have their place if you understand their limitations. I found there are subtle but important differences in the translation.
The best way to "solve" design issues is in a sculpt. Much of my past work was as a prototype developer and industrial sculptor. I have carved many car models (among other things) from solid acetate working from blueprints way before 3d printing.
Your car project is very interesting. Looks like you have put in a lot of work.! Will you be glassing directly over the foam bucks you are making ? Or will you make molds and glass into the mold?
Foam is fast but not super accurate for high detail unless on a large scale. Clay can be very accurate if you use hard clay. Easier to make changes and add material. Acetate is like carving stone. take away only... although there are tricks to fix or change things. The good thing is that the final model is very accurate and holds edges. Used mostly for tooling patterns.
I also believe there is no replacement for pencil. Beyond that, sculpting it in 3d goes light years beyond any 3d software. 3D and RP have their place if you understand their limitations. I found there are subtle but important differences in the translation.
The best way to "solve" design issues is in a sculpt. Much of my past work was as a prototype developer and industrial sculptor. I have carved many car models (among other things) from solid acetate working from blueprints way before 3d printing.
Your car project is very interesting. Looks like you have put in a lot of work.! Will you be glassing directly over the foam bucks you are making ? Or will you make molds and glass into the mold?
Foam is fast but not super accurate for high detail unless on a large scale. Clay can be very accurate if you use hard clay. Easier to make changes and add material. Acetate is like carving stone. take away only... although there are tricks to fix or change things. The good thing is that the final model is very accurate and holds edges. Used mostly for tooling patterns.
You can get the clay very accurate but it is easier to do the smoothing in CAD. .
I've milled the car full size in a type of styrofoam that is produced like a printer, project specific. Comes out glass smooth. I marry the foam buck, different from modelling foam, to the chassis to work out details such as exhaust, mount hard points, gas tanks, hood and trunk hinges, etc. I use an existing car's windshield and frame and doors and then skin the door with my own panels. I finish the parts and scan them. I mill the molds and the body panels are done in carbon fiber. Chassis and body is all done with Solid Works. It was to be done cheap and fast. Yeah sure.
LS3 crate and C5 6 speed in my own chassis and suspension. No torque tube. Chassis is just waiting for the body in order to complete the chassis. A 1/4 scale model doesn't translate into full size well. That's when human intervention is required.
You know, there has been some discussion about how Chaz likes the additional length of the nose on his render, vs the length of the camo’d test car. Is it possible that GM is using a front facia different from the real, final item?
I’m thinking they could replace the real front facia with a different one for camo reasons.
Anybody think this is possible?
You know, there has been some discussion about how Chaz likes the additional length of the nose on his render, vs the length of the camo’d test car. Is it possible that GM is using a front facia different from the real, final item?
I’m thinking they could replace the real front facia with a different one for camo reasons.
Anybody think this is possible?
i think its mostly perspective that that makes the nose look different.
I do think it’s possible that the High end version will have a slightly longer/ different nose to get the snout out in the air a bit sooner very much like the Pista.
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-23-2019 at 02:19 PM.
01-23-2019, 11:13 AM
I use a pencil because these graphic programs have minds of their own. I'm being a bit tough on Chaz, it is very difficult to do what he is doing. It doesn't always go the way you want it to. I'll try to behave. Foam and clay is a very pleasing way to do things. What program do you use?
