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If the C8 debuts at the NAIAS Show...The Supra could be in trouble

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If the C8 debuts at the NAIAS Show...The Supra could be in trouble

Old 10-30-2018, 08:46 PM
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Supermassive
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Default If the C8 debuts at the NAIAS Show...The Supra could be in trouble

I just read that the new Toyota Supra is set to finally unveil itself during the 2019 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. Here's the article.
https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/2020-toyota-supra-detroit-auto-show-debut/

If this is true and the C8 also debuts at the same show...how much of an effect do you all think these debuts will have on each car since they will certainly be catering to similar buyers.

I personally feel like Toyota is so tone deaf to what people actually want that they honestly have no idea how badly the C8 is going to affect them. If the rumors of the price of the new Supra being in the high $50k range with a 360ish hp engine are true, this car may just be dead in the water.
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Old 10-30-2018, 09:15 PM
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Supra was always a slow seller. The last great surpra turbo was a slow seller. It was quite expemsive. It wasnt really until the vehicle began its second hand ownership that supra owners really began having fun.

that said..any time a sexy new two seater with near 400 hp its a big win for enthusiasts.

i still prefer corvettes as most of us on the corvette forum would...

best of luck to the new supra. I hope its a great success.

we need more sports cars that have excellent qualities.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:17 PM
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Completely different buyers.
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
I personally feel like Toyota is so tone deaf to what people actually want .....
Want to know how tone deaf Toyota is::

2 years ago I was looking to buy my 4th 4Runner in a row--all I wanted was a stripped down car (essentially no options) with leather seats.
My previous (then current) was just like that:: a stripper with leather.
Toyota would not sell real leather seats without the SR-something package $1500 for the leather, another $5K+/- for the package..
So I bought a Mercedes GLs 450 at about 2X what the 4Runner would have cost.

Oh, and BTW, the 4Runners are made about 60 miles south of where I live.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:41 PM
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The Supra is a rolling tragedy. It's death will be its own fault.
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Old 10-31-2018, 03:19 PM
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The Supra is dead because the new one is just a hardtop Z4. Oh the hype Toyota has summoned over what is in all its glory badge engineering. I hope they sell 0 of them. Hopefully they'll be so terrible at it that they'll lose out to the Z4 in every comparison, in the same fashion the Aston is substantially slower than the AMG GT it is based on.
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Old 10-31-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
Want to know how tone deaf Toyota is::

2 years ago I was looking to buy my 4th 4Runner in a row--all I wanted was a stripped down car (essentially no options) with leather seats.
My previous (then current) was just like that:: a stripper with leather.
Toyota would not sell real leather seats without the SR-something package $1500 for the leather, another $5K+/- for the package..
So I bought a Mercedes GLs 450 at about 2X what the 4Runner would have cost.

Oh, and BTW, the 4Runners are made about 60 miles south of where I live.
Really? I thought 4Runners were made in Japan.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by msm859 View Post
Really? I thought 4Runners were made in Japan.
Per Wikipedia
All 4Runners have been built at Toyota's Tahara plant at Tahara, Aichi, Japan, or at Hino Motors' Hamura, Japan plant.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Yarbie
Completely different buyers.
Agree. The Supra lines up better to the Miata and Boxster.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
Agree. The Supra lines up better to the Miata and Boxster.
The problem is that the Supra is already estimated to be a $60k+ car which is Corvette money. Just because the new Supra has a back seat, it is about as useful as the 911's. The other huge elephant in the room, is that this car is not a Toyota. It's a BMW with Toyota badges, kinda like how the Toyota GT86 is actually a Subaru with Toyota badging. It feels like Toyota is unsure of how to best make a sports car and allows other companies to do the work developing a car, and then just dresses it in Toyota garb. The last Supra was a distinctly Japanese interpretation of an American muscle car, it was glorious in it's absurdity, it was without any doubt a Japanese car made in the 90's. It cribbed off of the Corvette's of the time wrap-around dash, it had a funny little afterthought LCD clock that was mounted in a hole that became a favorite spot for boost gauges. It was also pretty much exactly like Corvette's of the time as far as interior quality, people look back fondly when they think of the Supra, but it was no Lexus or BMW when it came to interior design or componentry.

I loved mine when I owned them, but they were not sports cars in the same vein as a Corvette, they had more in common with Mustangs and Camaros, built for boulevard bruising, and humiliating exotics stoplight to stoplight. The thing that I feel could redeem it, will be the aftermarket, but I am not holding out much hope there.
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Old 11-01-2018, 01:33 AM
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Doesn't look too bad. Had a '95 TT. Very nice car.




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Old 11-01-2018, 08:12 AM
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It won't be too bad looking but it doesn't exactly "pop". They could have tried a bit harder to keep the proportions of the FT1 Concept instead of going with this overly "chunky" design that appears to have been designed by committee and forced to fit on the Z4 platform. I understand that concepts don't always meet safety/crash standards but the FT1 was gorgeous and had perfect proportions, while every picture of the camoflaged test cars has been hard for me to see past its very similar outline to the FRS/GT86/BRZ which cheapens the appearance to me.
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Old 11-01-2018, 08:24 AM
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Looks like it's going to be similar in size and performance level to a C5 Corvette.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:43 AM
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Iíve talked to my buddy about this and as Corvette owners neither of us see whoís going to spend mid 60s to low 70s for a nicely optioned Supra that has 335hp when the base Corvettes can be had in the high 40s when deals come around but have 460hp. And letís be real, the interior of the C7 is a vast improvement over years past, I donít see the Supra just beating it out there either. I mean Iím sure the first year will grab a lot of sales since it has the name Supra, but I feel sales will fall flat by year 3 as the car just isnít competitive. Should be about 35 grand if they want to get away with 335 hp.
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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The Supra is going to be a major competitor to the Corvette if it's in the $60K price range. Face it, vettes are almost exclusively an old guys car. The kids of today aren't interested in them and Toyota is fully capable of building a Corvette killer if they went after it.

People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.

I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:35 AM
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The Mk V Supra will be a sales failure but, after they come down a bit and real car guys get a hold of them - these jokers will have all of us watching over our shoulders (when they aren't in the shop)

Yes it's just a Z4 Coupe (with NO backseat btw) but, that's not a bad thing....the B58 engine is the true successor to the N54 (aka The Gernam 2JZ) and the aftermarket is already waking it up in the current 340i and 440i

Sales success, no.
2025 "Mexico Racing League" Champion, yes.

Houston is infested with tuned N54 BMWs, There's just no other way to go THAT fast for THAT cheap.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mcrider View Post
The Supra is going to be a major competitor to the Corvette if it's in the $60K price range. Face it, vettes are almost exclusively an old guys car. The kids of today aren't interested in them and Toyota is fully capable of building a Corvette killer if they went after it.

People who think raw HP is the epitome of judging a car are ignorant of what is going on in road racing. The GM V8 is an ancient design and it getting it's *** kicked by 4 and 6 cylinder cars.

Toyota has proven beyond any doubt they can build kick *** vehicles and make more than enough horsepower to win races of every single kind.

I find the arrogance of many vette owners laughable. You go look at what 1990 Toyota Supra's are going for compared to the same year vettes.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...ra&_sacat=6001
I am not understanding your point? There were more 1990 vettes built than the sum of all Supras from 90-98... when demand is equal and one supply is less, the price will be inflated....
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by VETTE-NV View Post
Doesn't look too bad. Had a '95 TT. Very nice car.



That front schnoz is butt ugly.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 84 4+3 View Post
I am not understanding your point? There were more 1990 vettes built than the sum of all Supras from 90-98... when demand is equal and one supply is less, the price will be inflated....
If the Supra was such a POS, then why are prices so high? Why did Toyota bring them back?

Toyota is going to go after the sports car market with a vengeance. That's their style. I never once thought they would make it as big in NASCAR as they have, or how about big trucks to directly compete with the F150 and Silverado.

Do not underestimate them.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:57 PM
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Supra is being made to match Cayman and Cayman S performance for less $$ - especially once you option out the Porsche. We will see how it does but its good to have another option since the new C8 is going to be $150k, kidding...

Toyota knows what they are doing with the 4 Runner. An old platform and power train but selling near or over 100,000 units a year. Pretty unbelievable its success over the past few years.
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