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$169,900, final price confirmed

 
Old 11-12-2018, 09:01 AM
  #721  
King Dranzer
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
~
I don't see them incompatible at all!

Can see the base C8 selling in the $75,000 to $80,000 range (mid ~$60,000 at Kerbeck) while the high end ZR1 type with it's ~700 hp small cid, double overhead cam, dual large turbos producing 700 hp (the current Ford GT has a 3.5 Liter V6, dual turbo engine producing 647 hp) will sell for the $169,000 predicted on this thread. That will require wider than the 305 section width tires that were on the C8 in Germany, which will require wider fenders. Suspect the aero will be adjustable based on speed so it doesn't have to look like the current ZR1 "boy racer" when parked! So those paying more will not see many other cars that look like theirs!

Yep the high cost variant will have real leather interior (not ground up McDonald cow hide scraps made "leather like.") Maybe even seats that both cool and heat properly as an option. Perhaps motorized tuck in mirrors!

Perhaps that ~700 hp will be partially supplied by a F1 KERS type system that produces 160 hp (for a short time) with an electric motor/generator and also provides some braking energy recovery. In F1 that system with battery reportedly weights only ~60 pounds.

Note the $169,000 price is also partly to limit demand for that higher hp lower mpg engine! Easily controlled by GM with price!
Yes there is a possibility of high-end variant costing that much but I don't expect the upcoming C8 variant to be high-end. Because Corvette have always gone from low to high tier releases and not the other way round till now. We have been discussing about the upcoming C8 variant and not the one which is years away for launch. Second point is even if they drop the high-end variant at that point it is expected to perform a level ahead of its competitors for the same price if it wanna go on large scale production. Otherwise the priority will be given to its competitors at that price because of brand.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:07 AM
  #722  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
Sure there will be variants! There will be a Ford GT type engine, probably closer to 700 hp from a small cid engine.

I believe the roadmap is OHV V8 --> DOHC V8 Turbo (NA variant?) --> hybrid DOHC V8 (+/- turbo?) --> EV. A V6 turbo in a Corvette is a dubious proposition, especially since GM's V6 turbos to date have had similar or worse mpg than equivalently powerful pushrod V8s.

MPG of GM's alpha platform cars of similar weight (city, highway, combined).
ATS V 3.6TT V6: 17, 25, 20
Camaro SS 6.2 V8: 16, 27, 20

GM's new DOHC V8 "Blackwing" architecture should have more impressive economy in the lighter C8.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:38 AM
  #723  
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Originally Posted by Maxie2U View Post


GM is in the business to sell car not protect previous owner car values.
You can be sure that a C7 bandwidth of $56,590.00 net price - $150,000.00 optioned out ZR1 will be upstaged by the new mid engined ZORA. The base ZORA will be significantly higher than the base $56,590.00 Stingray and the top ZORA will also be significantly higher than the ZR1. That in effect will protect investment value within competing Corvette models.
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:48 AM
  #724  
JerryU
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
I believe the roadmap is OHV V8 --> DOHC V8 Turbo (NA variant?) --> hybrid DOHC V8 (+/- turbo?) --> EV. A V6 turbo in a Corvette is a dubious proposition, especially since GM's V6 turbos to date have had similar or worse mpg than equivalently powerful pushrod V8s.

MPG of GM's alpha platform cars of similar weight (city, highway, combined).
ATS V 3.6TT V6: 17, 25, 20
Camaro SS 6.2 V8: 16, 27, 20

GM's new DOHC V8 "Blackwing" architecture should have more impressive economy in the lighter C8.
I don’t get hung up on needing 8 cylinders as some. Would be happy with 6 or a 1.6 Liter V 12 like the early Colombo eniges that did well for Ferrari and sounded great!

Not that one could put an F1 engine in a passenger car but it shows what can be accomplished, >800 hp from a turbocharged 1.6 Liter V6 before you add the 160 hp from KERS. That is almost 4 times smaller than our 6.2 Liter C7 V8s. Much less friction when cruising. (Unlike most race car series have to give F1 credit for pushing engine efficiency. They no longer allow refueling and are using half the gas and besting lap times on the same tracks where they had 3 Liter V 10s.)

An I agree evolution is fine when there is time. But electronics and software advance at very high speeds. Car companies have to move fast or get passed. Yep Chevy did a great job of engineering evolving from the 265 cid small block in my ‘56 Chevy to the LT1. They did get caught in the ‘73/‘74 time frame when they weren’t ready to meet the EPA challenges. Heck I bought a 260Z which was only a bit better losing only ~3hp from the 240Z the year before. The max hp small block power in 1973/74 was 250 and 2 years prior you could order a 330 hp with the same size small block!

Yep evolution can work in some cases but I’m expecting a stepped change in the C8 to show GM leadership!




Last edited by JerryU; 11-12-2018 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 12:20 PM
  #725  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
You can be sure that a C7 bandwidth of $56,590.00 net price - $150,000.00 optioned out ZR1 will be upstaged by the new mid engined ZORA. The base ZORA will be significantly higher than the base $56,590.00 Stingray and the top ZORA will also be significantly higher than the ZR1. That in effect will protect investment value within competing Corvette models.
You seem to be changing your tune quite a bit here. Previously, you and your favorite disciple (PCM) were suggesting that the entry-level ME would exceed the price of the current ZR1.

I agree there will be several different ME variants, and a very big price spread as performance goes up in each variant. However, the vast majority believe what multiple inside sources have relayed to numerous folks, including me, that the base ME will be within 10% of the base C7, and so on up the ladder. Once we get to the "uber version," it wouldn't surprise me if that was quite a bit more than the current ZR1.

Last edited by Foosh; 11-12-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:13 PM
  #726  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
You seem to be changing your tune quite a bit here. Previously, you and your favorite disciple (PCM) were suggesting that the entry-level ME would exceed the price of the current ZR1.

I agree there will be several different ME variants, and a very big price spread as performance goes up in each variant. However, the vast majority believe what multiple inside sources have relayed to numerous folks, including me, that the base ME will be within 10% of the base C7, and so on up the ladder.
I've never said that. I've always promoted the base ME as starting around the 80k to 90k and ending up under 190k with the top model. I just don't agree that the entry level ME can possibly be within 10% of the base C7 because of the differences in chassis tech, suspension, and transmission upgrade to DCT/Transaxle that I documented on my list thread. Also, if they slightly upgrade the interior specs over the C7 generation that also plays into it. When we got all those Zerv leaked CAD files we could see that there were definitely upgrades to almost all systems. Right now within the forum community we seem to have two mindsets. One that believes only one configuration going forward and the other believing both FE and ME is going forward. Therein lies the real problem. Some here are hoping for a 65k supercar that looks like a Ferrari that they can afford. We can go round and round over this, but until GM reveals it nobody will rest their case. Last week when I researched the Bowling Green Plant size, that really sealed it for me. Why would GM triple the size of the plant to still build only one configuration of Corvette. They could have just kept building the new ME at the old modernized plant and not invest in the massive new building addition. It makes absolutely zero sense to only build one going forward when they now have all of this space to build both FE and ME, and now possibly a Cadillac ME and/or Corvette SUV.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:24 PM
  #727  
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OK, your disciple PCM did predict the base ME would cost more than the ZR1, which is exactly why I challenged him to a bet he wouldn't take. There's so much noise in here, it's hard to keep it straight. For all I know, he's heading back now to edit that post, but I'm not going to waste my time checking.

However, you have changed your position because you voted "Over $100K" in the poll on the starting price for the ME. Your screen name is right there for all to see. Only about 8% of nearly 400 voters agreed with that. You also said I'd lose my bet which is that the entry-level car will not cost over $121K, which is the current base price for the ZR1. Make up your mind.

On the rest, I think you're completely wrong, and continuous repetition of the same wild speculation isn't going to convince anyone, except PCM and a few others. I'm just repeating what multiple GM insiders have conveyed to various reliable forum members, which was within 10% of current base C7 MSRP.

I've been around long enough to know which forum members can be trusted to relay accurate information, and which ones just generally blow smoke and engage in wild speculation. We'll see . . .

Last edited by Foosh; 11-12-2018 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:30 PM
  #728  
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Originally Posted by Zerv02 View Post
Not to derail the thread, but also something really cool I cam across today, it looks like Dodge is trying to get back into the game, resurrecting the viper, but with a V8 this time.

Rumors swirling around that we may catch a glimpse of a concept at the 2019 naias of their upcoming car.

Gotta admit that's one nice car. If the price is right, the C8 is going to have some competition.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gend-is-reborn

As a two-time Gen V Viper owner, active member of one of the largest regional Viper clubs, and guy who keeps his ear to the ground from the people who do know what's going on - this has already been disproved ad nauseam. Every single Viper owner who's in-the-know with the demise in 2017 knows this article goes against everything stated in on-and-off the record conversations with Ralph Gilles. Far too many reasons to explain why this isn't happening any time soon. Please keep the Viper false rumors in the Viper forums.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:34 PM
  #729  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post
Yep Chevy did a great job of engineering evolving from the 265 cid small block in my ‘56 Chevy to the LT1. They did get caught in the ‘73/‘74 time frame when they weren’t ready to meet the EPA challenges. Heck I bought a 260Z which was only a bit better losing only ~3hp from the 240Z the year before. The max hp small block power in 1973/74 was 250 and 2 years prior you could order a 330 hp with the same size small block!




The 73 L82 was down only 5 hp from the 72 LT1.

The hp loss in that era, early 70’s, was due to two items, drop in compression to accommodate unleaded gas and a change in hp rating systems from gross to net hp. That 330 in 71 was gross, all years after were net.

In 75 there was a big drop due to emissions when they added the catalytic converters and went to single exhaust.

Last edited by Tom73; 11-12-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 01:34 PM
  #730  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
OK, your disciple PCM did, which is exactly why I challenged him to a bet he wouldn't take. There's so much noise in here, it's hard to keep it straight.

However, you have changed your position because you voted "Over $100K" in the poll on the starting price for the ME. Your screen name is right there for all to see. Only about 8% of nearly 400 voters agreed with that.

On the rest, I think you're completely wrong, and continuous repetition of the same wild speculation isn't going to convince anyone, except PCM and a few others. We'll see . . .
You're right, we will see !! Foosh, give me your thoughts on why they need the plant tripled in size to build only one configuration of Corvette. This will be entertaining!!

Last edited by skank; 11-12-2018 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:24 PM
  #731  
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Originally Posted by Zerv02 View Post
Not to derail the thread, but also something really cool I cam across today, it looks like Dodge is trying to get back into the game, resurrecting the viper, but with a V8 this time.

Rumors swirling around that we may catch a glimpse of a concept at the 2019 naias of their upcoming car.

Gotta admit that's one nice car. If the price is right, the C8 is going to have some competition.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...gend-is-reborn
Originally Posted by alienranch View Post
As a two-time Gen V Viper owner, active member of one of the largest regional Viper clubs, and guy who keeps his ear to the ground from the people who do know what's going on - this has already been disproved ad nauseam. Every single Viper owner who's in-the-know with the demise in 2017 knows this article goes against everything stated in on-and-off the record conversations with Ralph Gilles. Far too many reasons to explain why this isn't happening any time soon. Please keep the Viper false rumors in the Viper forums.
Shhhh. Zerv02 is trying to put out more bombshell info. Funny that he cites an article from May, 2018 which a wide range of people have debunked already. An "Insider" like Zerv02 always has the up to date factual info... Did that last sentence come off as sarcastic? ;-)

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Old 11-12-2018, 02:33 PM
  #732  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
You're right, we will see !! Foosh, give me your thoughts on why they need the plant tripled in size to build only one configuration of Corvette. This will be entertaining!!
It won't be entertaining to you given your penchant for fantastical thinking and magical reality.

The primary reason was the paint shop and virtually all that new square footage is the paint shop. They want to be able to offer more colors. They also needed to greatly extend the length of the lines for curing paint and SMC panels. In the old plant, panels and paint were cured at much higher temps given the cramped space, which contributed to both OP and SMC panel distortion. The long lines of the new plant allows curing of both at much reduced temperature, which is the primary reason, along with state-of-the-art robots, that most find the new finishes and panels to be much improved. They'll likely be even better on the new car as the facility comes fully up to speed.

Meanwhile the old paint shop space can be used for things like moving the GM Performance Engine Build Center from Wixom, MI to BGA. The above explanations have been published time and time again here, and explained by plant engineers.

Obviously, GM also planned for future expansion. It's much cheaper to build more space than you currently need to plan for future growth than it is to build just enough, and keep adding just enough later. Big manufacturers plan 30 years in the future for contingencies, and the future is far from clear. They may not always build Corvettes there, and that large new space can be repurposed for whatever comes.

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Old 11-12-2018, 03:07 PM
  #733  
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Is future expansion the reason the new addition has three or four stories?
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:08 PM
  #734  
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I think he's only getting the price for the high-end ZR1 type model that will come later. The base model will be affordable and around 80k
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:20 PM
  #735  
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Originally Posted by JerryU View Post

I donít get hung up on needing 8 cylinders as some. Would be happy with 6 or a 1.6 Liter V 12 like the early Colombo eniges that did well for Ferrari and sounded great!

Not that one could put an F1 engine in a passenger car but it shows what can be accomplished, >800 hp from a turbocharged 1.6 Liter V6 before you add the 160 hp from KERS. That is almost 4 times smaller than our 6.2 Liter C7 V8s. Much less friction when cruising. (Unlike most race car series have to give F1 credit for pushing engine efficiency. They no longer allow refueling and are using half the gas and besting lap times on the same tracks where they had 3 Liter V 10s.)

An I agree evolution is fine when there is time. But electronics and software advance at very high speeds. Car companies have to move fast or get passed. Yep Chevy did a great job of engineering evolving from the 265 cid small block in my Ď56 Chevy to the LT1. They did get caught in the Ď73/Ď74 time frame when they werenít ready to meet the EPA challenges. Heck I bought a 260Z which was only a bit better losing only ~3hp from the 240Z the year before. The max hp small block power in 1973/74 was 250 and 2 years prior you could order a 330 hp with the same size small block!

Yep evolution can work in some cases but Iím expecting a stepped change in the C8 to show GM leadership!
We're alike in not needing a V8. I'm content with a forced induction six cylinder so long as it performs, and the lower weight will improve handling.

But given GM's hybrid and EV expertise I expect the stepped change to be a hybrid C8, followed by a a paradigm change to an EV C9. I do know that in the 2023 - 24 time frame GM will introduce an EV sports car, but it will not be a Corvette. I've no idea what it will be, but my guess is Cadillac's halo car. Whatever it is, I'm buying it. I drove my friend's Tesla Roadster and the effortless torque of the electric motor is insanely addictive.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:31 PM
  #736  
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Originally Posted by Tom73 View Post
Is future expansion the reason the new addition has three or four stories?
Have you ever been in a large manufacturing facility? It easily takes 4 conventional stories to accommodate overhead conveyors, lift systems, air filtration, HVAC, paint robots, ovens, power-supply, and any number of other complex systems.

Last edited by Foosh; 11-12-2018 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:45 PM
  #737  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Have you ever been in a large manufacturing facility? It easily takes 4 conventional stories to accommodate overhead conveyors, lift systems, air filtration, HVAC, paint robots, ovens, power-supply, and any number of other complex systems.
I agree with that but those are 2 or 3 stories tall without separate floors, just a huge empty space with a roof over them. The pics of the BGA while the addition was under construction clearly showed a full size basement (looking two stories tall) and two full separate floors above ground level.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:52 PM
  #738  
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Wow, over 780 replies and over 58,000 views on this thread.

I'm pretty astonished that ANYONE will take the OP seriously.

I bet my entire 401k and the entire CF community's 401k that the MSRP will be far lower than 169k. OP is either delusional or just a troll.
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Old 11-12-2018, 03:58 PM
  #739  
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Only about 8% believe that exorbitant number for the base car, although a version that takes ZR1 performance to the next level could get there. The majority of the posts here are attempts to convince some dreamers that they are being delusional and/or their notions are devoid of economic and marketing logic. I have found this thread very entertaining, and obviously many others are getting a good laugh out it.

Last edited by Foosh; 11-12-2018 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:04 PM
  #740  
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Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
Wow, over 780 replies and over 58,000 views on this thread.

I'm pretty astonished that ANYONE will take the OP seriously..
Ever again.
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