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The engine on the left is a Ford 4.6L DOHC V8. On the right is a 5.7L pushrod LS1.
The Cadillac Blackwing has a pair of turbos mounted in the valley but the liquid intercoolers are stacked on top of the DOHC valve covers. There is no way it will fit in a base Corvette, and GM normally avoids hood bulges in all but their most limited volume cars.
Corvette fit a 5.7L DOHC in its C4 nearly 30 years ago. I think they can do it today too. Also, a Ford engine is not a Chevy. Car & Driver:
"Cadillac says the new 4.2 is actually a little lighter and a little more compact than the LT4. We find this hard to believe, considering compact dimensions are among the biggest selling points of GM’s small-block. Engineers point to the shorter block (by 50 millimeters), made possible by bore spacing down to 96.0 mm from 111.7 mm in the small-block."
Exactly my point! He doesn't get that sports car buyers and muscle car buyers don't often cross-shop, they are literally two different types of cars.
It's ok, when I was in my car enthusiast infancy, all I cared about was drag racing too. Then you grow up.
True! Same goes here. When my tastes were let's say less sophisticated, I was into cars like Dodge, Camaro's, Mustangs, etc. Shoot, my idea of stepping up and fine dining was opting for steak taco's at Taco Bell as well LOL.
Last edited by DaveFerrari458; 11-16-2018 at 01:20 PM.
actually shows you have little taste, as currently these cars in their early 70s muscle car forms are some of the most sought after cars in the world right now. If you think there is something unsophisticated about a 69 camaro, then you dont know dick about cars
Disagree, car buyers are fungible. If Dodges are the fastest, and if people driving dodges can consistently smoke vette owners, it will mean something. People arent locked into one type of car. Performance buyers want fast cars period
It's probably more complicated. Most guys buy a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger to use as a daily driver so it needs acceptable outward visibility, accessable cargo space, and a roomy interior. Styling also matters, nobody wants to look like a childish tool.
The proof is that the Chevy Camaro utterly dominates the Mustang and Challenger on the track, yet it's the worst selling "pony car." Somebody at Chevy needs to be fired over the 6th gen Camaro disaster.
actually shows you have little taste, as currently these cars in their early 70s muscle car forms are some of the most sought after cars in the world right now. If you think there is something unsophisticated about a 69 camaro, then you dont know dick about cars
If only I had known that the Corvette transmission is in the rear, I would not have made such a horrible mistake! Everyone knows that GM is simply not capable of modifying a front mounted transmission to a rear mounted configuration because their engineers are all amateurs who are not familiar with automatic transmissions. Wow, you are so right!
the mental gymnastics you go through to find support for your viewpoints is amazing... I can only infer that you are either an automotive engineer or a GM executive.... or, a wishful thinker who refuses to face the facts and the real experts who speak those facts... have fun in that world of yours.
Corvette fit a 5.7L DOHC in its C4 nearly 30 years ago. I think they can do it today too. Also, a Ford engine is not a Chevy. Car & Driver:
"Cadillac says the new 4.2 is actually a little lighter and a little more compact than the LT4. We find this hard to believe, considering compact dimensions are among the biggest selling points of GM’s small-block. Engineers point to the shorter block (by 50 millimeters), made possible by bore spacing down to 96.0 mm from 111.7 mm in the small-block."
Now you're moving the goal posts. We're talking specifically about Cadillac's Blackwing engine. The Lotus LT5 didn't have turbos and intercoolers stacked on top of it.
Corvette fit a 5.7L DOHC in its C4 nearly 30 years ago. I think they can do it today too. Also, a Ford engine is not a Chevy. Car & Driver:
"Cadillac says the new 4.2 is actually a little lighter and a little more compact than the LT4. We find this hard to believe, considering compact dimensions are among the biggest selling points of GM’s small-block. Engineers point to the shorter block (by 50 millimeters), made possible by bore spacing down to 96.0 mm from 111.7 mm in the small-block."
I could believe that it might be a little smaller and lighter being a 4.2 liter engine is the equivalent of about 256 cubic inches as far as displacement goes. But does that 4.2 weight and size include the twin turbos also? Cause without turbos, that 4.2 will be a gutless dog under 3300 RPM or so. With turbos, and properly engineered with premium components, twin turbos could easily wring 500+ h/p out of it. But it won't be cheap and you are not going to find that configuration in a $60k car..
But does that 4.2 weight and size include the twin turbos also? But it won't be cheap and you are not going to find that configuration in a $60k car..
The turbos are in the V between the cylinder banks so yeah, the compact size includes them. True, this engine will cost more so it will be an option for the $60K Stingray. The standard engine will be a 500 hp LT1.
Disagree, car buyers are fungible. If Dodges are the fastest, and if people driving dodges can consistently smoke vette owners, it will mean something. People arent locked into one type of car. Performance buyers want fast cars period
Hmmm, new guy with barely 50 posts and clearly expousing Dodge/drag 0-60 love.
Btw, your use of "fungible" is wrong. It's an economic term for assets that are commoditized, ie, things can be substituted for it. It can be used for people if those people provide goods or services in a market (eg, car salesmen). Not a car buyer, who is a customer. You mean something to the effect of car buyers are not brand loyal. So, you're one of THOSE people who drop words they don't understand. Maybe a young guy, under 30, i'm guessing.
Originally Posted by tcweidner
Please Sotheby does some expensive cars but they are no where even close to the popularity, the crowd size, the overall amount of cars sold, and on and on that Barrett Jackson is.
Your free to think Sotheby's is the biggest auction ( its not) and that quarter mile times, 0-60 times dont matter ( but they do)
My assertion is that in order for corvette to keep its brand meaning something, it needs to be able to produce cars as fast as any other american maker. Dodge is pushing limits and if Corvette doesnt counter and if Dodge is allowed for faster less expensive cars, corvette would lose sales and its brand would take a hit. Corvette buyers/owner expect corvettes to be among the fastest period. Middle of the road doesnt cut it, might as well buy a miata at that point
I'm playing a drinking game where I drink when newbies say Dodge on a Corvette forum. You're killing me
If you care abt 0-60 times from a stop sign, get a Tesla/electric. If you want to drag, invest in a Top Fuel dragster... just saying.
And no, we're not buying your Miata.
Srsly, the Viper is an awesome car. But not good for routine street use. See the thread recently about the guy who traded his ACR in for a Z.
Originally Posted by tcweidner
actually shows you have little taste, as currently these cars in their early 70s muscle car forms are some of the most sought after cars in the world right now. If you think there is something unsophisticated about a 69 camaro, then you dont know dick about cars
Tell us how you really feel abt muscle cars, you're being noncommittal
Originally Posted by tcweidner
Dont be an ***, Im done with you, My friend/crew have collections that are worth millions, I'll tell them to grow up too. since they have all types of cars.
You know how many times we see the "my friend has" expression on an internet car forum. It means we should be getting advice from that "friend", not you, if he in fact exists.
It's probably more complicated. Most guys buy a Camaro/Mustang/Challenger to use as a daily driver so it needs acceptable outward visibility, accessable cargo space, and a roomy interior. Styling also matters, nobody wants to look like a childish tool.
The proof is that the Chevy Camaro utterly dominates the Mustang and Challenger on the track, yet it's the worst selling "pony car." Somebody at Chevy needs to be fired over the 6th gen Camaro disaster.
Am I the only "middle aged" guy that loves the new Camaro? The Mustang is handsome too but I can't bear the steering feel.
The turbos are in the V between the cylinder banks so yeah, the compact size includes them. True, this engine will cost more so it will be an option for the $60K Stingray. The standard engine will be a 500 hp LT1.
Originally Posted by PCMIII
You make factual assertions but don't provide any evidence to back it up. Why should anyone believe you?
Is it possible that you're making factual assertions without providing any evidence to back it up? You really are an unbelievable piece of work.
Last I checked thats what matters, Quarter mile=straight line....0-60 time=straight line.....drag racing=straight line . Straight line is how most people race and rate their cars.
We can also talk about hps which Hell Cats and Hell Demons are damn good at putting out.
So Im not sure why your laughing. Dodge is turning heads recently and for good reason
Dodge does not make a GT or a sports car. They simply put a large displacement motor with a supercharger in a decade old design platform originally designed by MB as an E300.
That platform is a dinosaur and does not come remotely close to being consider a sports car.
Sports car racing in the USA = IMSA
Sports car racing in rest of world = WEC
Dodge does not participate in either series as they have not made a sports car or a GT car since the death of the Viper.
Comparing Corvette to a Dodge is comparing two different design and platform and the purpose for each.
Hell you might as well compare a Lamborghini Uras suv to Corvette it's about the same as comparing Dodge decade old MB E300 platform to a Corvette that is a world class GT/ Sports car.
Hmmm, new guy with barely 50 posts and clearly expousing Dodge/drag 0-60 love.
Btw, your use of "fungible" is wrong. It's an economic term for assets that are commoditized, ie, things can be substituted for it. It can be used for people if those people provide goods or services in a market (eg, car salesmen). Not a car buyer, who is a customer. You mean something to the effect of car buyers are not brand loyal. So, you're one of THOSE people who drop words they don't understand. Maybe a young guy, under 30, i'm guessing.
umm sorry my use of fungible is correct. From Websters . "capable of mutual substitution : INTERCHANGEABLE… the court's postulate that male and female jurors must be regarded as fungible— George Will
and if you were a car guy instead of a poser, you would know car people do in fact have lots of friends, acquaintances, clubs, meet-ups, crews. You should try to get a friend some day when your not incorrectly trying to find fault with people's use of diction.
I find it amusing that some here are so closed off they dont see the reality that the hellcat and hell demon at the same price points as the new Corvette may just be siphoning off some sales, especially from the younger crowd who with this c7 corvette makeover, Chevy so desperately wants to attract.
Its so sad that fanbois like you cant even stand to hear people say they like other car brands as well... sad for you. Lots of great cars out there. I say Dodge and gasp, I must be a Dodge troll, instead of a corvette owner ( and mercedes owner... is that troll worthy as well?) who recognizes and applauds the hellcat and hell demon.
Bloomberg: "Porsche continues to expand in the country [China] that has become its biggest market, the brand’s head of sales Detlev von Platen said.
“The growth isn’t just coming from SUVs,” von Platen said Wednesday in an interview at the Beijing motor show. “Demand for our two-door sports cars, the 718 Cayman and Boxster, is developing extremely well.”
Porsche is targeting China with everything. Corvette will do the same because China is the biggest car market.
80% is suv sales that’s 2018 data. So, no it’s not that great of a market and boxster or cayman is no where near the price point you claim that c8 will reside. So, why aren’t they selling gt3 or turbo s. Not to mention the gt2. If the market was that great, I’d expect that number to be a lot higher. Face it, the Chinese market isn’t a sports car market like you think.
umm sorry my use of fungible is correct. From Websters . "capable of mutual substitution : INTERCHANGEABLE… the court's postulate that male and female jurors must be regarded as fungible— George Will
and if you were a car guy instead of a poser, you would know car people do in fact have lots of friends, acquaintances, clubs, meet-ups, crews. You should try to get a friend some day when your not incorrectly trying to find fault with people's use of diction.
I find it amusing that some here are so closed off they dont see the reality that the hellcat and hell demon at the same price points as the new Corvette may just be siphoning off some sales, especially from the younger crowd who with this c7 corvette makeover, Chevy so desperately wants to attract.
Its so sad that fanbois like you cant even stand to hear people say they like other car brands as well... sad for you. Lots of great cars out there. I say Dodge and gasp, I must be a Dodge troll, instead of a corvette owner ( and mercedes owner... is that troll worthy as well?) who recognizes and applauds the hellcat and hell demon.
I think it depends on how you like to drive your car. Myself I love a good road course. There’s nothing like it. I use to drag race in my younger years, but lost the thrill the first time I drove on a road course. So much more involved in road course racing. Nevertheless, we’re discussing the c8 which is designed for road courses. You can’t compare drag cars to road course cars. He’s right, globally more people care about roadcourse times than 0 to 60 times. F1 is huge all over the world, drag racing not so much.
Cadillac says the Blackwing is "more compact" than the LT4 which has a supercharger stacked on top. What does "more compact" mean?
They specifically compared the length of the two engines. They called it height but it was in the context of bore spacing, and bore spacing affects the length of the engine along the crankshaft's axis.
Did you even look at the photos I posted comparing the OHV V8 to the DOHC V8? How can you look a DOHC engine and think "yeah, that's not gonna be as tall as a pushrod V8?"
11-16-2018, 01:17 PM
