mschuyler

Overall I think most people here judge posts and threads by reputation and how well they express themselves. Here's Foosh with years of experience here, over 14,000 posts and thousands of thanks, who has opined on Corvette subjects far and wide, and who is generally right on the issues, as is proven by his previous 14,000 posts. Now here you come along, a Viper fan, who has done absolutely nothing since you got here, with a whopping 60 some odd posts. This is your first time jumping into the pool, with mostly derisive, caustic, and critical comments with absolutely no substance, no useful information at all. And PCM is in the same boat, very new here, suddenly jumping into the fray on this one subject only, and seemingly unaware of his own outrageous and contradictory statements, and yet another who is sure to demean anyone at all who disagrees with him. You two are quite a pair. so I find myself wondering, why you, why now, where have you been, and why are you so emotionally driven on this one subject? It's not as if either of you have EVER participated in the overall Corvette discussion over the years. This seems to be your one hot button issue and neither of you have provided any verifiable useful information. You are tedious and unhelpful. Everything is an argument with you. I suggest this is what the ignore list is for. Bye.

Foosh

The anonymous poster you refer to is not my source, but he did write many things consistent with information that was conveyed to me by my source long before he posted here. No, I will not name my source because I promised I wouldn't. I do know for a fact he/she is in a position to know. He/she would not reveal all the details because of his/her sense of honor in respecting GM's wishes to hold things close. In keeping with my own sense of honor, I have been vague in what I've conveyed here so as not to violate his trust.

My method of sharing here has been similar to the way "Deep Throat" handled Woodward and Bernstein of the Washington Post during the Watergate investigation of President Nixon. Deep Throat would not explicitly share details, but he would say yes or no as to whether they were hot or cold. I've chosen my words very carefully.

As I've also said here many times, I don't care whether I'm believed by you or anyone else. Others with their own anonymous sources they've promised to protect have independently conveyed info very consistent with everything I've shared. It's up to every individual to decide for him or herself.

4VFTW

GM's current trend seems to be to sacrifice volume in favor of increased ATP, why would their signature model be exempt from this?

Foosh

That may be true to some extent, but it is highly unlikely they'd throw away a very profitable model of approx 30K units annually by imposing a pricing structure that would drop it to under 5K units annually. I don't care how much margin there is in a $170K car, there's not going to be enough to make up the difference.

supermetroid

I'm unsure of what you're saying here. I think the consensus from most here is that: The base C8 which is a ME will be unveiled next year with around 500 hp at around $60k starting price. Then the performance models will follow the next few years just as previous generations.

ViperFan1

Okay.. the consensus on here is biased-enthusiasts--far from a scientific sample. It's a fact that an INSIDER with PROVEN TRACK RECORD said 170k.. Respected NONBIAS Dealers are saying 150k.. The ZR1 is discontinued.. hmmmm. Well my friend. I am sorry to say I guess we will agree to disagree. I will be sending you a private message expecting an apology if the car isn't at least 2x your price target.

The Zora line of Corvette's will follow other brands exclusive low production plan, the C7 will be updated, and at the end of the day I know it hurts to some people but you will not get a Zora vette' for under the MSRP of a Camaro ZL1 1LE.. this is going to be the most disappointed sub-forum in car forum history. If Acura can charge 170k for a base car so can Chevrolet. I am actually sad people like you don't seem to have a grasp on reality and for some reason think you have reason to think you know what goes on behind GM's headquarters with the doors closed. It will not be a 60k car. They will most likely have a Z06X that will be a stripped Z06 with the new engine possibly-- and it will run crazy times and be a contender to the mid engine but the mid-engine is going to be Chevy's true Viper/Ford's GT.. it will be a monster, but unfortunately it's going to be in another league from any other current American offering.

Oh.. and "Chevy has NEVER, and WILL NEVER Charge over 100k for a car?" let's just say there is a first time for everything. They will take McLaren fanboy's away from there British mini-microwave v8's and bring true exotica back to America with the Viper's departure. Sorry bro. Your wrong-- and so is everyone else believing a poorly written troll post made by an anonymous person who's likely just another another delusional 60k'er.

Your going to (literally--) be over 100% incorrect on your price call. Sorry.

ViperFan1

Mark. my. words..

There will NEVER be a NON-PERFORMANCE model of the Zora ME car 670-880? With a 1k 918 for half the price coming a year or 2 later?

ME cars cost a ton to produce that's why we don't have anything besides the Ford GT. Well.. that's about to change =) believe you want, but don't say you didn't know.

ViperFan1

The "margin's" have NEVER been "high" on the Dodge Viper, and Ford looses money on every single GT sold--

sometimes it's about the "marketing" the car will bring to the brand-- just a reminder. Not every car makes money directly off sales some have actually lost profit but made the money back from the other cars the brand sells but whatever have fun watching the autoshow. Please don't break anything.

Foosh

Yep, another entry in the "Most Delusional" or "C8 Troll of the Year" contests.

We don't know what we're talking about, but someone else shows up with all kinds of "inside insight" on C8 and C7 production plans, Viper and FGT profit/loss margins, and without any credentials and expects to be taken seriously. Umm . . . K

mschuyler

Without these two clowns it's actually a pretty interesting discussion.

Sub Driver

Its tough to "mark your words" when you cannot form simple sentences. Here are a couple of questions:
1. What is a 1k 918 that is half the price of a Zora ME?
2. If ME cars cost a ton to produce, why was the MR2, boxster, fiero, etc so relatively inexpensive?
3. What does "believe you want" mean?

PCMIII

What many here don't understand is the accounting that is used to determine profit of a car. The factory cost and improvements must be amortized into each vehicle produced so a large factory with major recent improvements must produce a high volume. Producing 33K cars/year is never going to be profitable at BGA going forward so GM will have to produce multiple vehicles there in addition to the ME. Plus the engineering development costs of the ME have been huge compared to previous generations and those costs have to be amortized into each ME also. So the ME is going to have to be a huge international success selling in all major markets in large numbers. The old Corvette business model of selling 90% to Americans is gone.

Foosh

LOL, yeah, but did you know we both failed to understand that "accounting is used to determine the profit of a car"?

VETTE-NV

Here's a thought.....how about we ignore Viperfool and PCMoron and see how long they continue to rant to deaf ears. This thread has really run it's course and needs to die.

PCMIII

Well that didn't take long.

Foosh

Agree, but I was responding to MShuyler's observation to my post. I'm going dark now in this thread, but rest assured the same repetitive nonsense will be posted elsewhere by the same posters.

dcbingaman

This crash was due to a problem with the air data system following poor maintenance by Lion Air. The Lion Air maintenance head was found culpable and fired the day after the crash.

NO automatic flight control system will work properly without good air data. The malfunctioning Angle of Attack (AOA) sensors told the flight control the aircraft was in a stall. The flight control pushed the nose down via stabilator trim to prevent a crash. The previous three air crews caught the system's reaction and disabled the flight control trimmer and then "squawked" the problem to the ground crew when back on the ground. The AOA malfunction was not properly diagnosed and fixed.

The fourth air crew did not recognize the AOA problem and flew the aircraft into the ocean. A very preventable tragedy.

Blaming this crash on Boeing is like you blaming GM for you wrecking your car after leaving your garage with three flat tires.

The B737 remains the safest single-aisle aircraft in the world.

supermetroid

You seem very sure of yourself and passionate. I'm just not sure how or why "they" would confirm the starting price this early, it doesn't seem very logical. It seems like it would be a lot of work/resources to run two different lines of Corvettes, FE and ME simultaneously. And like mentioned, if mid engines are so more expensive to produce, then why have GM, Toyota and other companies released them in the past at reasonable prices? Imo, it sounds like you and PCM are just really holding out hope that there will be a high performance FE Corvette made with not much evidence pointing in that direction. Also, it's beneficial for dealers to say how the new model will be super expensive especially if they're sitting on a lot of current gen models that aren't moving...

dcbingaman

Demonstratably Not true. The Pontiac Fiero, the Fiat 1/9, the Toyota MR2 and the Porsche Boxster / Cayman are all mid-engine sports cars and all cost LESS to build than the current C7 Corvette. The C8 ME will cost only slightly more than the current C7 due to the inclusion of the Tremec DCT. Otherwise it is the same aluminum subframe / composite-SMC body sports car that GM has been building for 50 years. Location of the engine / drivetrain has little effect on either the structural design or the production methodology of this car.

The one big disadvantage of ME's is their lack of contiguous cargo volume which is why they remain a niche product in auto production. Hopefully GM has addressed this adequately for cross-country travelers and golf fans.

PCMIII

Kai Spande said that BGA can easily produce completely different models simultaneously. He said the ZR1, whose front half is completely different from the Stingray, was no problem to build despite many different techniques and methods required. So it would not be hard at all to build the ME and FE simultaneously which BGA is doing right now with the ME mules that are testing.

The only reasonably priced ME now is the Cayman which is not exactly high performance, but can easily top $100K.The Base Stingray has never been updated in a production run of over 5 years, but it could be easily improved with the Blackwing engine and 10 speed AT. GM would be leaving a ton of money on the table if it built only MEs going forward especially since it has the capacity to build the FE with the ME.