Tom73

tcweidner

It will all come down to the c7/camaro decision really. if they sell c7/c8 side by side, then c8 becomes the halo car and chevy continues to cover both buyer demographics with corvettes. Want a 60k corvette buy a c7, want a specialized ME race car, buy a c8. Or perhaps it will only be an expensive c8 for corvette and they move the camaro up into the corvette price points? It will be interesting to see what they do. It will also be interesting to see the timing of when they offer. Car sales are down right now, and 2019 looks to be a very shaky economic year, so perhaps waiting til 2020 or beyond makes sense.

If I had to bet I would bet. New C8 base price is 89k, and they slide some top end Camaros into the 60-70k range. I could see the top end C8 being around 160kish

Dethsupp0rt

Top end Camaro is already there.

Supermassive

Simply because there are limitations to just how many parts will actually be interchangeable. Anything that is exclusive to either variant will incur a separate volume cost, and there will likely be very little shared outside of engines, brakes, and maybe seats between a mid engine car and a front engine car. The reason the ZR1 commands a premium over say a Z06 is because the entire front end of the car (from the windshield forward) is exclusive to the ZR1 and those costs are amortized over the production of every ZR1. It will cost GM more money to make two separate platforms because volume purchasing will be split, it also puts added stress on the supply chain which isn't really a GM issue, but could affect component costs.

As for expanding the Corvette brand into separate vehicles is some next level idiot plan right now, in this market. Does anyone pay attention to the auto industry as a whole, or do many people live in isolated bubbles of information. If anything brand consolidation is the trend, cutting unnecessary or marginally profitable models in favor of what sells. Why do you think the high end manufacturers are making crossovers and SUV's? It's not because they are cool. It's survival mode in the face of a changing demographic that views automobiles as "appliances for conveyance". GM has quite literally written the book on making a profit on the Corvette while other brands have tried and failed (cough *Viper* cough). What I am trying to say is that no reasonable person with even the slightest clue about what the auto industry is going through would really think splitting the Corvette into two models makes any financial sense.

The constant babble about China being an untapped market for expensive cars is hilarious due to how China taxes exotics, and in some cases makes ownership of extravagant automobiles all together. The market for sports cars is remarkably unchanged until you get to the hyper exotics which are made in such low volumes that they are inconsequential in the grand scheme of the actual auto market. The biggest indicator of the saturation of the sports car market is that Porsche makes a 911 variant for anyone between $90k to $300k and they sell only 50k 911's a year...it literally has the most flexible bandwidth in that market segment and makes as many as they can to fulfill demand, and that is all that sells globally. There are a few other makes that compete in that market but it simply is not a massive playground full of people waiting to be separated from their money.

Your second paragraph is where I feel like you have become jaded to what has been established as the "norm". GM can do all of that, the C7 is literally everything you stated, only the engine is in front. They made the interior orders of magnitude better than the C6, made it run circles around the competition, and did it for a few grand more than the outgoing C6. If they bump the price $5k and put the engine in the back, why would everything you've listed not be possible? Does engineering a mid engine mass produced sports car just cost more? Is there some mystical being out there that has set the price of mid engine cars out of reason just because the engine is behind you? Does mid engine aluminum cost more than front engine aluminum?

I know! Its because the term "mid engine" is exotic! Totally worth a massive bump in price.

I'm sorry for the sarcasm, I am not targeting you or anyone at all really, I'm just frustrated because I am a person that deals in reason, not whimsy...I deal in logic, and I don't see any logic in steering the Corvette ship off course. This is where I have to believe that smarter people than myself see the logic, weigh it carefully, and do the right thing based on the results. Perhaps I am missing a bigger picture somewhere, perhaps my personal investment in my desire to own a mid engine Corvette is covering my eyes over some huge thing that makes a much more expensive model make sense. I do know that since this thread started I have done more research on everything from Chinese auto markets, European taxes on American imports, US auto industry trends, Corvette historical sales, and the motivations of GM execs past and present...and honestly its interesting, but out of everything I now know, the Corvette as n idea was never meant to be out of reach...the point was that it was meant to be just within reach of anyone who wanted one and that ethos was held onto for 65 years successfully...changing that would be like turning the Mustang into an SUV.

tcweidner

Yep, and I think they will remain there with some true beast engine options. So this should tell us, Corvette is moving up a notch in price. For decades they purposely did not let Camaro performance push up against corvette, and to be honest I dont think that will change. C8 is moving up a notch.

Telepierre

OK let's try this again=leftModelStingray CoupeStingray ConvertibleGrand Sport CoupeGrand Sport ConvertibleZ06 CoupeZ06 ConvertibleTotals:

Tom73

patentcad

Yes and no. C7 sales would still be down relative to the first three years of production - and continuing to erode - as they have with EVERY subsequent generation of Corvette.

I'd guess all this C8 speculation is exacerbating that to the tune of a couple of thousand units over the last 18 months of production. GM can't keep things under wraps (and much of the car industry), they are not like Apple (who can keep a secret), To be fair, Apple doesn't have to test its products on public roads and open air test tracks, it's MUCH harder for car companies.

I really am astonished @ how many people buy into this $150K+ C8 pricing idea. That would be the Mother of all Stupid. Let's hope GM still has two friggin brain cells to rub together because it would be the first nail in the Corvette coffin lid. Good grief you go up in price $10K from LT1 to LT3 and sales #'s for this car go off a cliff. I think if the base car is over $100K, they'll struggle to reach 20K in unit sales the first year. If the base stays under $70K, double that. GM knows that better than anyone.

patentcad

A lot of these '$150K C8' posts have a distinct 'what's the matter you whiner, you don't have that much $ for your next car. I have that much you loser.' attitude about them. Which is fine if that's how you roll. Pathetic, but fine.

JerryU

Good points, as I was wondering what happened at Cadillac. The wife had an early CTS, which we both liked. However she wanted an SUV for loading groceries etc. We looked at the Caddy offering at the time an she didn't like it (nor as I recall I didn't either.) Wound up with a Porsche Cayenne that she did like. But it was an hour away for maintenance and the prices for an oil change were ridicules. The last oil change they said it needed brakes and rotors and quoted $2600. When we were planning a long trip it needed a new battery, as it was on it's last legs. The cost, $900 as you have to remove the driver's seat with all it's wiring, plugs, plastic skirt etc, A YouTube video made it look like a lot of work, with risks! Couldn't risk getting stuck away from a Porsche dealer so decided to trade it in for a BMW X5. Wife liked it better than the Porsche. In fact just bought another as the 1st was 4 years old and got a good deal for another X5.

The only time the Caddy SUV was mentioned was during our price negotiations I said, "We'll have to see what the Caddy price would be." They accepted my offer!

Tom73

Foosh

Where the hell did the notion come from that C7-ish FE would be produced and sold along side the new ME? I don't recall a single credible source even hinting at that, not even ZERV.

JDSKY

All or nothing? It does not have to be 169K or nothing. Even the owner of that information has admitted as much. I do not think an ME has to start at over a 100K and likely won't. Well, so how many thousands of sales does GM lose if the car starts at 70 instead of 80? How many if its 80 instead of 90? How many thousands lost over a DCT without a manual? How many lost over decreased serviceability? How many over decreased cargo space or same cargo space but now the car looks big and bloated in comparison to other ME cars on the market?

Will the car be a complete and total failure if it does not start with a base price in the 60K range? If you believe a lot of posters in these threads it will. I don't think so. There are many other opportunities for the car to sell in much smaller numbers than any of the FE designs outside of whatever GM decides the base price needs to be. An ME Corvette will have plenty of opportunities to fall short of expectation for the enthusiast community. Often times you have to sacrifice a lot in order to shave a few more seconds off of a lap time. In almost every category supreme track cars are abysmal road cars. If the goal for the ME is to shatter all previous performance numbers - at the track - then something else has to be sacrificed in order to obtain those numbers. There is no free lunch.

Foosh

I was asking a different question. Where did this idea of GM building FE and ME Corvettes at the same time come from? No credible source has supported that theory.

Obviously, the most logical strategy for a mass-produced car would be offering the totally new ME design across a broad range of prices for max sales.

bigsapper

Which is why ME == Cadillac.

rmorin1249

Maybe they'll bring back Pontiac and have a resurrected Fiero as well.

jefnvk

Agreed. I thought it was silly when Jeep ran old JK and new JL Wrangler production side by side for a year, and sold the old JKs as the lower priced model. Then again, Jeep prints money with Wranglers, heck they could start up CJ5 production, sell a boat load, and still not affect their JL sales.

Definitely can't see Chevy doing such a thing, UNLESS the ME is a Caddy and the FE is a Chevy.

Dethsupp0rt

I think one can come up with a reasonable guess from the C7 numbers:

Base Corvette is ~$60K, Grand Sport is ~$70K, Z06 is ~$85K.

~40% of sales are the base model, and I'd say most of those people that had an extra 10K to spend would have sprung for the GS . . . so I think it's safe to guess that 25-30% of Corvette sales would disappear if you start at $70K.

~30% of sales are the Grand Sport, and another ~30% are the Z06. At $80K, you lose a third to a half of that first group, so another 10-15% down the drain.

So right there, we're at a 35-45% loss at an 80K starting price (vs. 70% since I like to think there's still a lot of people who will pony up for a Corvette, price-be-damned).

At $90K-$100K, I think it gets dicey since you're now in 911 territory. Porsche did GM a favor and raised prices for the 992, so despite a previous poster saying you can get any Porsche for < $100K, this will no longer be the case.

As far as DCT vs. manual, the current take rate on the manual is only what? 20-25%? You only lose about a quarter of the die-hards, so maybe 5-7%, but you probably gain most of them back from people who don't want a manual, but were scared off by the current A8. Minimal loss there.

Zaro Tundov

A CF forum member claims to have seen the dies for the C7.5. I think it was Skank but I'm not sure so my apologies to Skank if I'm wrong.

FWIW, I do not believe it makes even the slightest business sense for GM to produce both at the same time. However, since GM has a history of making asinine business decisions I don't think we can rule out the possibility.

tcweidner

Sales GM loses? I'm guessing they are thinking Camaros ZL1 pick up the sales in that range. Americans care about Horsepower, 0 to 60, and quarter mile times. Top end Camaros are putting up nice numbers since they are basically using the 650 hp supercharged corvette z06.

Gets great reviews
https://www.caranddriver.com/chevrolet/camaro-zl1

so if GM was going to keep the corvette in its old price point, what is the point of the ZL1 Camaro?

If I were a year 1 c8 buyer I would get ready for a bump in price, but you're going to get a bump in performance too. Hell 89k or so for a base ME supercar is still a bargain.