90% of all of these theories on here are crazy
11-14-2018, 03:33 PM
#61
Drifting
Yawwwwwnnnn,,,,, more of the same in here. Someone pass the popcorn and a beer.
11-14-2018, 03:34 PM
#62
So there you have it in graphic detail. Almost 80% of Corvette sales are under $80K MSRP models. GM is not going to blow up that strategy, and selling a warmed over aging C7 ain't gonna cut it.
The following 2 users liked this post by Foosh:
CorvettoBrando (11-15-2018),
REZ1 (01-08-2019)
11-14-2018, 03:43 PM
#63
neither of those are expensive exotics lol and yes parts of some Porsche’s are hand built some more than others. The zr1 trounced everything except the gt2 rs. So tell me why didn’t they charge turbo s prices for it, the z06 or the Camaro zl1 le?
11-14-2018, 03:55 PM
#64
Le Mans Master
11-14-2018, 03:56 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Some Of Your Theories? Same
sorry people, hate to be that guy that pees on a bunch of people’s parades of dreams and fantasies but... some of you need to stop lol. 427s, 60k price tags, 170k sticker, will it have this, will it be hybrid awd... enough!
Here is the only debate.. 1. Will it actually be the “C8” or will it be part of GMs launch of Corvette as its own brand? 2. Who is it’s target competition?
1. If GM plans to target this car as the C8 then I personally think it will have way too many drawbacks and things that are compromises. The Corvette C7 should have gone more up market in its base trim. Unfortunately Corvette has to leave behind some of its old fan base and shoot a bit higher. Everyone complains about the interior or this or that and that is simply because GM continues to make a 60k base car that IMO ruins the bones of the product especially the higher models like ZR1 because it’s based on a 60k car. If GM is smart, they will make this a second model in the Corvette family at a higher price point and give it the budget it deserves and not worry about the lower end market share.. sorry guys. It has to be a GTR competitor and should cost 115-120k to be done right. It should also have the performance to demand the cost.
2. At 60k+.... it’s has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.
Look, it won’t have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind. I think a flat plane crank is more realistic and possibly a turbo variant down the road which would be the engine I’d get for mod ability. I finally want a Corvette that doesn’t be have to make excuses for things like poor interior or crappy panel gap etc. The every mans toy can be the Camaro, the Corvette finally needs to grow up.
Here is the only debate.. 1. Will it actually be the “C8” or will it be part of GMs launch of Corvette as its own brand? 2. Who is it’s target competition?
1. If GM plans to target this car as the C8 then I personally think it will have way too many drawbacks and things that are compromises. The Corvette C7 should have gone more up market in its base trim. Unfortunately Corvette has to leave behind some of its old fan base and shoot a bit higher. Everyone complains about the interior or this or that and that is simply because GM continues to make a 60k base car that IMO ruins the bones of the product especially the higher models like ZR1 because it’s based on a 60k car. If GM is smart, they will make this a second model in the Corvette family at a higher price point and give it the budget it deserves and not worry about the lower end market share.. sorry guys. It has to be a GTR competitor and should cost 115-120k to be done right. It should also have the performance to demand the cost.
2. At 60k+.... it’s has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.
Look, it won’t have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind. I think a flat plane crank is more realistic and possibly a turbo variant down the road which would be the engine I’d get for mod ability. I finally want a Corvette that doesn’t be have to make excuses for things like poor interior or crappy panel gap etc. The every mans toy can be the Camaro, the Corvette finally needs to grow up.
And if you think that the base ME will not come with a push rod 490ish h/p push rod V8 (LT2?) then your smokin' more wacky weed that we did in southeast Asia. Not at $60k, but likely a 1LT coming in between $65-70k but selling at MSRP or higher, which DOES represent a bit of a stretch for current base model buyers getting deeply discounted base cars. And the base ME will NOT be a supercar or anything that will blow my '19 Z into the weeds - just not gonna happen.
So you like flat plane crank motors do ya? Well, if they are kept to a pretty small displacement, then ok. But ask someone like me who had a '17 Shelby GT350 how well that 5.2 liter flat plane motor was working out. Or better yet, go visit the Mustang6G forum and look at the post popular thread called "Blown Engines." Ya want a DOHC modern engine? They have been around a lot longer than you have been alive. Lots of good features, by N/A, they are gutless under 3,300 RPM or so. They also have a lot more parts, are taller, and heavier than their small block equivalent. But they can rev out forever, and equipped with the requisite twin turbos, they will make lots of power - can you spell EXPENSIVE? And in the upper level ME models, with DCT and active aero, those puppies will cost a lot more than my MSRP Z06 at $88k, which I bought for $77k. Totally believe the top models could touch $170k or more...
You want "mod ability" in your turbo DOHC ME? Well take another hit on that pipe and read what the future of power tuning will be - start with reading how GM has so tightly locked down the ECM of the C7 ZR1 that it has not yet been cracked. Think that will get better with the new ME? Now that would be a bad theory. And, one of the reasons why I bought the '19 Z which does not have that problem.
Hybrid will almost certainly come to Corvette, and quite possibly all electric at some point. To deny that is to no face reality. Don't know about AWD.
11-14-2018, 04:04 PM
#66
I disagree.
While the underlying technology was closely related, it was perceived as an entirely new model, which is what drove sales. Corvette sales are heavily driven by repeat Corvette buyers. I'm a good example having owned 2 C6s, and now 2 C7s. I was never interested in the C5. A fair number of folks have purchased a Stingray, GS, and a Z06. Some now have even purchased ZR1s, but the C7 sales curve is now taking a nose-dive. I would never consider a 3rd C7 purchase.
If the strategy is to keep an FE platform as the low-cost alternative to maintain annual sales of 30-40K units minimum, then it will need to be perceived as a significantly different model, not a C7 w/ a facelift. I find it highly unlikely GM will go in the direction of two new Corvette platforms.
While the underlying technology was closely related, it was perceived as an entirely new model, which is what drove sales. Corvette sales are heavily driven by repeat Corvette buyers. I'm a good example having owned 2 C6s, and now 2 C7s. I was never interested in the C5. A fair number of folks have purchased a Stingray, GS, and a Z06. Some now have even purchased ZR1s, but the C7 sales curve is now taking a nose-dive. I would never consider a 3rd C7 purchase.
If the strategy is to keep an FE platform as the low-cost alternative to maintain annual sales of 30-40K units minimum, then it will need to be perceived as a significantly different model, not a C7 w/ a facelift. I find it highly unlikely GM will go in the direction of two new Corvette platforms.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-14-2018 at 04:16 PM.
11-14-2018, 04:09 PM
#67
you still don’t understand the vette is about value and with volume and modern manufacturing you can provide a little bit everything. If you want name go buy a Ferrari. I’ll stick with value, for me the performance comes first. I don’t care about caddy’s as I only drive sports cars. Besides Mercedes aren’t really that nice. They’re ok but name one Mercedes that’s really a great performance car. I can think of only one gtr. It’s a great car but other than that I’m not impressed as I don’t care about luxury cars. So, let’s compare apples to apples. We’re talking about performance cars not luxury cars.
The following users liked this post:
ptran00 (04-14-2019)
11-14-2018, 04:25 PM
#68
Le Mans Master
I disagree.
While the underlying technology was closely related, it was perceived as an entirely new model, which is what drove sales. Corvette sales are heavily driven by repeat Corvette buyers. I'm a good example having owned 2 C6s, and now 2 C7s. A fair number of folks have purchased a Stingray GS, and a Z06. Some now have even purchased ZR1s, but the C7 sales curve is now taking a nose-dive. I would never consider a 3rd C7 purchase.
If the strategy is to keep an FE platform as the low-cost platform to maintain annual sales of 30-40K units minimum, then it will need to be perceived as a significantly different model, not a C7 w/ a facelift. I find it highly unlikely GM will go in that direction.
While the underlying technology was closely related, it was perceived as an entirely new model, which is what drove sales. Corvette sales are heavily driven by repeat Corvette buyers. I'm a good example having owned 2 C6s, and now 2 C7s. A fair number of folks have purchased a Stingray GS, and a Z06. Some now have even purchased ZR1s, but the C7 sales curve is now taking a nose-dive. I would never consider a 3rd C7 purchase.
If the strategy is to keep an FE platform as the low-cost platform to maintain annual sales of 30-40K units minimum, then it will need to be perceived as a significantly different model, not a C7 w/ a facelift. I find it highly unlikely GM will go in that direction.
you still don’t understand the vette is about value and with volume and modern manufacturing you can provide a little bit everything. If you want name go buy a Ferrari. I’ll stick with value, for me the performance comes first. I don’t care about caddy’s as I only drive sports cars. Besides Mercedes aren’t really that nice. They’re ok but name one Mercedes that’s really a great performance car. I can think of only one gtr. It’s a great car but other than that I’m not impressed as I don’t care about luxury cars. So, let’s compare apples to apples. We’re talking about performance cars not luxury cars.
Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and they really will just chuck 65 years of history overboard and let the Camaro be their sole front engine performance car. Then maybe people will be rewarded with a $60k base model ME. I don't know. Everything I've seen tells me they're not going to do that, but I'm just another internet nobody, same as you.
11-14-2018, 04:28 PM
#69
You're missing the point by miring yourself in the mechanical and engineering details. It was PERCEIVED as an entirely new model and sales jumped dramatically as a result.
Just a "heavy restyle" will come at a significant cost. For economy of scale reasons in manufacturing, I'm reasonably sure it will be much more profitable to de-content the ME platform to deliver a budget next gen Corvette.
Just a "heavy restyle" will come at a significant cost. For economy of scale reasons in manufacturing, I'm reasonably sure it will be much more profitable to de-content the ME platform to deliver a budget next gen Corvette.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-14-2018 at 04:33 PM.
11-14-2018, 04:41 PM
#70
What were the big changes between 5 and 6? The aluminum frame and dry sump that were limited to the Z06 and ZR1? They looked different, and the interior was a bit nicer, but there weren't any drastic changes when comparing like models from the two generations. C7 was a big upgrade from C6. They could do a heavy restyle on the C7 and pass it off as a C8 without designing a whole new car.
I do understand. An $80k ME Zora is still a bargain compared to a $90k+ Porsche 911, let alone anything above that.
Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and they really will just chuck 65 years of history overboard and let the Camaro be their sole front engine performance car. Then maybe people will be rewarded with a $60k base model ME. I don't know. Everything I've seen tells me they're not going to do that, but I'm just another internet nobody, same as you.
I do understand. An $80k ME Zora is still a bargain compared to a $90k+ Porsche 911, let alone anything above that.
Who knows. Maybe I'm wrong and they really will just chuck 65 years of history overboard and let the Camaro be their sole front engine performance car. Then maybe people will be rewarded with a $60k base model ME. I don't know. Everything I've seen tells me they're not going to do that, but I'm just another internet nobody, same as you.
11-14-2018, 04:44 PM
#71
Le Mans Master
I know it was perceived as a new car. But it wasn't. Not really.
Decontenting the ME would make sense, IF they didn't have such a long and passionate history with the FE car. But like I said, maybe they really will just jettison the whole history thing and start over from scratch.
Decontenting the ME would make sense, IF they didn't have such a long and passionate history with the FE car. But like I said, maybe they really will just jettison the whole history thing and start over from scratch.
11-14-2018, 04:48 PM
#72
Well, I certainly perceived it as a very different car. I never considered a C5 purchase, but the C6 was such an improvement in my eyes that I voted with my checkbook twice. Tens of thousands of buyers were just like me.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-14-2018 at 04:59 PM.
11-14-2018, 04:54 PM
#73
I know it was perceived as a new car. But it wasn't. Not really.
Decontenting the ME would make sense, IF they didn't have such a long and passionate history with the FE car. But like I said, maybe they really will just jettison the whole history thing and start over from scratch.
Decontenting the ME would make sense, IF they didn't have such a long and passionate history with the FE car. But like I said, maybe they really will just jettison the whole history thing and start over from scratch.
11-14-2018, 04:58 PM
#74
Instructor
Hey I kinda see your point but GM as always been about a mass production, and they wanted to prove they could give you performance while saving some money. GM already competes with other supercars and personally the C7 ZR1 is already priced out of a lot of people. I put together a video of 5 cars that has proven track records for mid engine cars that can afford to cost 6 figures.
The following users liked this post:
ptran00 (04-14-2019)
11-14-2018, 05:18 PM
#75
Race Director
Another interesting thing that falcon5619's post shows is, that contrary to popular belief, Corvettes as a whole are NOT only driven by the 1LT/1LZ base package (i.e. CHEAP Corvettes for the guy who really can't afford a Corvette). Other than the Stingray, the 2LT/2LZ package was the most popular when taking ALL the Corvette bodies into account.
No doubt the 1LT Stingray is a good chunk of business, but to hear many on this very forum, it is a MAJORITY which it is clearly not. "Figures don't lie, but liars figure"
No doubt the 1LT Stingray is a good chunk of business, but to hear many on this very forum, it is a MAJORITY which it is clearly not. "Figures don't lie, but liars figure"
Last edited by jimmyb; 11-14-2018 at 05:20 PM.
11-14-2018, 05:31 PM
#76
I don't think interior trim level is the driving factor here. I think the break-point for a lot of folks is approximately $70K, and easily 50% of C7 sales were at or under that after discounts. GM is simply not going to risk 50% of the Corvette market.
It's not only a question of who can afford it. There are a lot of practical, well-off folks (like me), who will simply not pay more than that. I'm at the point where anything I buy is going to be a nearly daily, year-round driver, or not in my garage. I could write a check for a Ferrari, ZR1, or high-end Porsche, but I couldn't live with feeling like an idiot for doing so on a street car.
I think Warren Buffett still drives a Buick.
It's not only a question of who can afford it. There are a lot of practical, well-off folks (like me), who will simply not pay more than that. I'm at the point where anything I buy is going to be a nearly daily, year-round driver, or not in my garage. I could write a check for a Ferrari, ZR1, or high-end Porsche, but I couldn't live with feeling like an idiot for doing so on a street car.
I think Warren Buffett still drives a Buick.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-14-2018 at 05:40 PM.
The following users liked this post:
ptran00 (04-14-2019)
11-14-2018, 05:39 PM
#77
Parallel thought process here regards the C5. The C6 still didn't impress me enough to spend the money. However, the C7 opened my wallet.
Last edited by Skid Row Joe; 11-14-2018 at 05:40 PM.
11-14-2018, 05:49 PM
#79
Race Director
11-14-2018, 06:54 PM
#80
Melting Slicks
How many of these BS THREADS do we need to read that are very similar to others with slightly different titles. I feel like I am in the twilight Zone, In the end we keep going back to PRICE, FE and Halo car with better interior. 
We all are dug in with our beliefs, while 99% of us are not changing direction. The worst news for us all it could be until Aprils NY Auto Show till we finally get the truth from GM, I hope I am wrong. Please reveal this unicorn in your own back yard GM. PLEASE be DETROIT.
We all are dug in with our beliefs, while 99% of us are not changing direction. The worst news for us all it could be until Aprils NY Auto Show till we finally get the truth from GM, I hope I am wrong. Please reveal this unicorn in your own back yard GM. PLEASE be DETROIT.
Last edited by fasttoys; 11-14-2018 at 07:16 PM.