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90% of all of these theories on here are crazy

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90% of all of these theories on here are crazy

Old 11-14-2018, 04:23 AM
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2015GTRBE
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Default 90% of all of these theories on here are crazy

sorry people, hate to be that guy that pees on a bunch of peopleís parades of dreams and fantasies but... some of you need to stop lol. 427s, 60k price tags, 170k sticker, will it have this, will it be hybrid awd... enough!

Here is the only debate.. 1. Will it actually be the ďC8Ē or will it be part of GMs launch of Corvette as its own brand? 2. Who is itís target competition?

1. If GM plans to target this car as the C8 then I personally think it will have way too many drawbacks and things that are compromises. The Corvette C7 should have gone more up market in its base trim. Unfortunately Corvette has to leave behind some of its old fan base and shoot a bit higher. Everyone complains about the interior or this or that and that is simply because GM continues to make a 60k base car that IMO ruins the bones of the product especially the higher models like ZR1 because itís based on a 60k car. If GM is smart, they will make this a second model in the Corvette family at a higher price point and give it the budget it deserves and not worry about the lower end market share.. sorry guys. It has to be a GTR competitor and should cost 115-120k to be done right. It should also have the performance to demand the cost.

2. At 60k+.... itís has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.

Look, it wonít have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind. I think a flat plane crank is more realistic and possibly a turbo variant down the road which would be the engine Iíd get for mod ability. I finally want a Corvette that doesnít be have to make excuses for things like poor interior or crappy panel gap etc. The every mans toy can be the Camaro, the Corvette finally needs to grow up.

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Old 11-14-2018, 07:31 AM
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Not going to happen.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:45 AM
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You realize the current C7 Corvette already has a $56k to $145k price range. The Corvette has always been about fantastic styling and performance for the price and the bulk of sales are at the lower end of the price range. If GM wants to take the new mid engine car further upmarket then great but it would stupid from a business perspective to abandon the bulk of their buyers that represent 20-30k sales per year. Just because other mid engine performance cars cost $100k plus doesn’t necessarily mean that GM can’t build one for much less.

In my opinion, the way Corvette can shake up the industry with the next Corvette is to build a mid engine Corvette that now competes with Audi R8s, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. but does it at a more affordable price point. As a result they would appeal to the buyer that dreams of a Ferrari but will never attain one since they will never have $200k or more to buy one. Corvette already punches way above its weight already but if they build a mid engine super car at affordable prices then they should attract that mid engine buyer and even force potential exocric buyers to think twice and consider a mid engine Corvette.

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Old 11-14-2018, 08:05 AM
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The OP has some good points. If they really wanted to do this right, IMHO, the mid engine car should be a separate model, with it's own generational timeline. It should be an ultra performance car that utilizes new technologies. Start the thing out at the current Z06 price point and go up from there in both performance and trim. Continue with the FE business as usual. The 7th Gen is only 4, well technically 5 years in, it's due for redesign soon, but not yet dire, it's still relevant.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE View Post
sorry people, hate to be that guy that pees on a bunch of people’s parades of dreams and fantasies but... some of you need to stop lol. 427s, 60k price tags, 170k sticker, will it have this, will it be hybrid awd... enough!

Here is the only debate.. 1. Will it actually be the “C8” or will it be part of GMs launch of Corvette as its own brand? 2. Who is it’s target competition?

1. If GM plans to target this car as the C8 then I personally think it will have way too many drawbacks and things that are compromises. The Corvette C7 should have gone more up market in its base trim. Unfortunately Corvette has to leave behind some of its old fan base and shoot a bit higher. Everyone complains about the interior or this or that and that is simply because GM continues to make a 60k base car that IMO ruins the bones of the product especially the higher models like ZR1 because it’s based on a 60k car. If GM is smart, they will make this a second model in the Corvette family at a higher price point and give it the budget it deserves and not worry about the lower end market share.. sorry guys. It has to be a GTR competitor and should cost 115-120k to be done right. It should also have the performance to demand the cost.

2. At 60k+.... it’s has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.

Look, it won’t have a 427... all you geezers hoping for a muscle- mid engine hold on to your existing Corvettes. This car is about moving forward not behind. I think a flat plane crank is more realistic and possibly a turbo variant down the road which would be the engine I’d get for mod ability. I finally want a Corvette that doesn’t be have to make excuses for things like poor interior or crappy panel gap etc. The every mans toy can be the Camaro, the Corvette finally needs to grow up.




Interesting and I agree with a few thoughts but not all!

Here is what it will be- heck I have as good a chance as others who "think" they have inside info!

The Base ME C8:
Will use proven parts from the C7 like a welded aluminum frame fabricated in Bowling Green mostly by the same two Pulsed MIG welding robots on a new fixture. The hollow aluminum cradle and front "A" arms are light and work fine. Might even still use the composite front spring. Expect similar Brembo brakes. Much of the body will be made from slightly lighter composite panels with a density slightly less than water (it's now 1.2 sg) yep they will float! Some parts, like the hood and roof will be the same painted CF parts as will perhaps a few more to reduce weight where needed, like the hatch/engine cover.

The engine will be a smaller cid dual turbo, ~4 Liters with 475 hp. It will be a dry sump as extra oil will be part of the engine cooling. It won't be the 2019 Silverado 2.7 Liter 4-cylinder turbo that produces 320 hp but consider GM is willing to risk that on their most profitable pick-up that sells 550,000 per year the 30,000/year Vette will get something similar in concept to meet their Corporate mpg goals. The Tremic dual clutch transaxle has been already leaked as the what will be used with no third peddle. Perhaps it will include a "shift by wire" stick with gate that lets the driver select which gear, when but will go fully automatic or allow paddles if desired.

Interior options will be similar to the C7 with several levels but still real leather on the seating surface only and instead of the "leather like" Mulan that some 3LT folks report dash issues it will all be a better vinyl that is more rugged and doesn't contain ground up leather scrapes like their coined name, Mulan!

Base Bose sound system.

The rear cradle may be another material to reduce weight in that area and perhaps coilovers.

I will have eLSD as standard but conventional shocks.

The base C8 will be priced somewhat higher than the C7 but to sell similar volumes.

Base with Z51 Option:
Stiffer springs, large sway bar, MRC and bigger Brembo brakes will be the main changes. There will be some extra static aero parts like a splitter and larger rear spoiler.

High End Z06/ZR1 Versions:
Not sure of timing but believe their will be two versions and answer some of the issues you raise and indicate GM should produce.

Version One: will be a high hp performance oriented model. It will have a similar engine to the base but with forged pistons and crack, titanium valves and larger turbo's with large intercoolers. Induction will include port injection and DI as the current ZR1. Heck if Ford can get 647 hp from a 3.5 Liter V6 the C8 4 Liter V8 spinning at 7000 rpm should be able to get close to 700. Springs, sway bars and MRC settings tuned for max performance. It will have speed sensitive movable aero parts like splitter and rear spoiler wing but won't look like "boy racer" ZR1!

Version Two: will be the Luxury model. Similar engine to above but with smaller turbos and tuned for ~550 hp. But will have an extra 100 lbs of insulation so a high end sound system can be effective. It will include "all-season" tires that can perform fine in freezing temps that are also quite. There would be an option for real Italian leather with perhaps a Gucci logo they can show off to their friends! It would include some electronic things some folks ask for such as "blind spot' and "crash avoidance detection" (actually I think that will be mandated in all vehicles.)

At some point the high end variants will included a F1 type KERS system that provides ~100 hp for a short time when taking off and accelerating that only uses a small capacity batter to keep the extra weight at under 100 lbs. Like the F1 system that will also save some of the 1/3 power that gets to the rear wheels consumed while braking!

The prices of these high end models will be in the $125,000+ plus range and if fully optioned could exceed $170,000! Especially with the F1 KERS type system!

YEP, ALL MY GUESSES AND NOTHING STOLEN FROM GM!

Last edited by JerryU; 11-14-2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:15 AM
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Everyone does not complain about the interior...in fact the biggest gripe with the C7 was the new car "chemical" smell. My 3LT interior was actually incredibly nice. Sure it wasn't Porsche's brand of "German Austere" nice or Bentley's "Royalty level" nice, but for a sports car it was perfectly fine. The problem is that people continue to have a problem with price being a determining factor in actual value, which is BS. If the driving experience is as good or better than other more expensive cars then the car is just fine.

Moving the Corvette upmarket is just stupid (which I have have said more than a few times already) because the only people who care about this kind of thing don't understand why the Corvette is so successful in the first place. If you need to validate your existence with a more expensive car so that people who drive Ferraris and Lambos will take you seriously, then that is on you. The majority of exotic car buyers are so caught up in the "image" of the car than the actual performance, so even moving the Corvette upmarket in price and quality won't be enough to sell to those people, because no matter what a Corvette is not a Ferrari when talking about exclusivity.

So who do you think will be buying a more expensive C8? Just Corvette enthusiasts with way more money than the current average buyer? That would kill sales...to the point that GM would have to reconsider the Corvette being viable. I would argue that GM has the perfect price at about $60k and taking the car global. They stand a very good chance of eating a large chunk of 911 sales if they do simply because nothing occupies the space between $40kish sports cars and the $90kish 911's. With a starting price in the low $60k60k range it would leave room to option the car out and remain below 911 pricing while offering a mid engine super car experience. If they simply improve upon the C7 interior a bit and find a way to lower the "glue smell" they will likely increase sales to record levels.

For all the bluster from foreign car review sites about how the Corvette is compromised because of its interiors, they certainly love the car when they have the opportunity to drive it. If GM goes global, people will have another choice than the 911 and that is huge. So huge that I'd be willing to bet that if it happened Porsche would finally make a mid engine 911.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
If GM goes global, people will have another choice than the 911 and that is huge. So huge that I'd be willing to bet that if it happened Porsche would finally make a mid engine 911.
Porsche already created a mid-engine 911 (the RSR). They race it in WEC and IMSA. It's just a matter of whether they decide to make it into a production road car.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamr616 View Post
Porsche already created a mid-engine 911 (the RSR). They race it in WEC and IMSA. It's just a matter of whether they decide to make it into a production road car.
Yep, saw it under construction on a tour of Porsche USA Racing, Core Autosport in Rock Hill SC early this year. It was a tour/meeting of SAE our ASME Section joined. Very impressive operation, could eat off the floor! Many race cars in various stages of construction.

Yep Zora said Dr. Porsche new the right place for an engine was in the middle. He worked on the German mid engine race cars in the 1930's! However to build the "people's car" ln the 1930;s he used a rear air cooled engine because it was cheap and simple. He used that base for his first "sports car" in the 1940's because there were little funds available for a better layout!

Actually it's not that difficult to reverse the engine ad transaxle, it fits in the area of the useless rear 911 seats!

Reminds me of some of the Corvair conversions where they stuffed a small block in the rear seat! Much better balance and low moment of inertia!

I give Porsche engineering a lot of credit for making a poor rear engine design into a great handling car. When I had my modified '67 Corvair Porsches of the era had the same oversteer issues! With essentially one hand tied behind their back the engineers have evolved a great car. When they finally put the engine in the middle just imagine what they can do!

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Old 11-14-2018, 11:34 AM
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Guy complains about crazy theories, then says the C8 must be $115K to $120K.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:11 PM
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I think OP has some good points. Something is telling me that the car we are seeing is not the "C8". I don't remember the thread/article/whatever, but someone said the Corvette team was enjoying the fact that they had everyone fooled and that the car at the Ring was not what people thought it was (which I took to mean it wasn't the C8). Chevy didn't register Zora worldwide on a whim. They didn't start calling the Corvette the Stingray again for no reason. I think the idea that the ME is a different model within the Corvette "brand" is very possible.

I can definitely see a world with a C7/C8 car that is FE to stick with history and tradition and retain those customers that prefer the GT format with plenty of storage for their golf bags and so their SO can take the house with them on trips, WHILE also building a ME car (Z1?) with a different name (Corvette Zora), different pricepoint, etc.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
Guy complains about crazy theories, then says the C8 must be $115K to $120K.
itís not crazy, a GTR was the Corvette of Japan and look at how that car has evolved. When you stop worrying about a budget base car your ability to create a car that can TRULY go head to head with the best is the result. Letís also be realistic here, 115k isnt that crazy, itís about what a V8 R8 used to cost in base trim and Iíd like the think Corvette brand has enough self esteem to want to be considered a higher up brand themselves one day.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
Guy complains about crazy theories, then says the C8 must be $115K to $120K.
When you stop calling it a C8, it starts to make more sense. Until I hear otherwise from GM, I'm sticking to the idea that the ME is an all new model that's meant to replace the loaded Z06 and ZR1 models rather than the entire front engine lineup.

ME comes in as a 2020 model with prices around high end of current Z06 pricing, but below Porsche 911. 80-ish thousand to start.
C7 continues until 2021. Maybe drops the Z06 model at some point.
C8 FE comes in as a 2022 model. Possibly as a heavily massaged C7.5 to keep costs down. Keeps the Stingray and Grand Sport models, and maybe a back to basics track ready Z06.
ME grows to include higher end models up to and a little past the current ZR1 price tier.
Maybe Cadillac gets a version somewhere.

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Old 11-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermassive View Post
Everyone does not complain about the interior...in fact the biggest gripe with the C7 was the new car "chemical" smell. My 3LT interior was actually incredibly nice. Sure it wasn't Porsche's brand of "German Austere" nice or Bentley's "Royalty level" nice, but for a sports car it was perfectly fine. The problem is that people continue to have a problem with price being a determining factor in actual value, which is BS. If the driving experience is as good or better than other more expensive cars then the car is just fine.

Moving the Corvette upmarket is just stupid (which I have have said more than a few times already) because the only people who care about this kind of thing don't understand why the Corvette is so successful in the first place. If you need to validate your existence with a more expensive car so that people who drive Ferraris and Lambos will take you seriously, then that is on you. The majority of exotic car buyers are so caught up in the "image" of the car than the actual performance, so even moving the Corvette upmarket in price and quality won't be enough to sell to those people, because no matter what a Corvette is not a Ferrari when talking about exclusivity.

So who do you think will be buying a more expensive C8? Just Corvette enthusiasts with way more money than the current average buyer? That would kill sales...to the point that GM would have to reconsider the Corvette being viable. I would argue that GM has the perfect price at about $60k and taking the car global. They stand a very good chance of eating a large chunk of 911 sales if they do simply because nothing occupies the space between $40kish sports cars and the $90kish 911's. With a starting price in the low $60k60k range it would leave room to option the car out and remain below 911 pricing while offering a mid engine super car experience. If they simply improve upon the C7 interior a bit and find a way to lower the "glue smell" they will likely increase sales to record levels.

For all the bluster from foreign car review sites about how the Corvette is compromised because of its interiors, they certainly love the car when they have the opportunity to drive it. If GM goes global, people will have another choice than the 911 and that is huge. So huge that I'd be willing to bet that if it happened Porsche would finally make a mid engine 911.
1. Not ONE 911 customer gives 2 ***** about saving 20-30k. A good percent of Porsche 911 customers can easily go out and buy Ferrari 488s if they desired, but to many a Porsche is a Porsche.

2. Corvette has more compromised than just interior, but for decades that has been one of many glaring Corvette disappointments. Hell, I own a C5 I know first hand. The C7 is better, however I wouldnít say itís a nicer place to be than many other cars that even cost less or the same.

3. The Corvette value proposition is history, yes. History shows that if you stick to the same formula forever and donít evolve you die. Look at Cadillac, look at Lincoln, and look at all of the failures made by car companies that didnít want to embrace change. My thinking is also one that concludes that GM knows it needs to form a Corvette brand with several offerings to accomplish the goals their product can have. A 60k mid engine Corvette is like a modern day Fiero or MR2. Why in hell do you want a budget mid engine car??!!! If you need to stay in a lower budget then buy one used down the road but know you are getting the better product.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE View Post

itís not crazy, a GTR was the Corvette of Japan and look at how that car has evolved. When you stop worrying about a budget base car your ability to create a car that can TRULY go head to head with the best is the result. Letís also be realistic here, 115k isnt that crazy, itís about what a V8 R8 used to cost in base trim and Iíd like the think Corvette brand has enough self esteem to want to be considered a higher up brand themselves one day.
That's a good comparison. For a long time, the GTR was just the top trim level of plain old pedestrian Skylines. Then Nissan broke it off into its own model and really cut it loose.

That philosophy is similar to what I'm saying for the ME car. As good as the Z06 and ZR1 are, it'd make more sense to put that kind of engineering into a dedicated platform, rather than trying to force into an all-things-for-all-people front engine platform.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by falcon5619 View Post
You realize the current C7 Corvette already has a $56k to $145k price range. The Corvette has always been about fantastic styling and performance for the price and the bulk of sales are at the lower end of the price range. If GM wants to take the new mid engine car further upmarket then great but it would stupid from a business perspective to abandon the bulk of their buyers that represent 20-30k sales per year. Just because other mid engine performance cars cost $100k plus doesnít necessarily mean that GM canít build one for much less.

In my opinion, the way Corvette can shake up the industry with the next Corvette is to build a mid engine Corvette that now competes with Audi R8s, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. but does it at a more affordable price point. As a result they would appeal to the buyer that dreams of a Ferrari but will never attain one since they will never have $200k or more to buy one. Corvette already punches way above its weight already but if they build a mid engine super car at affordable prices then they should attract that mid engine buyer and even force potential exocric buyers to think twice and consider a mid engine Corvette.

Corvette sells every car they make. GM doesnít need any help selling 60k Corvettes. Yes, I know the price has a range up to 140k, but why would buyers of the ZR1 want a car based on 60k???? Porsche guys do t have that problem, nor do GTR guys. You canít please everyone all the time and GM knows this.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE View Post

2. At 60k+.... itís has no direct competition and if Boxter is it, well that is lame.
You pretty much pissed away your entire argument right here. If it has no direct competition & performs as well or better than most performance cars that cost double, triple or more, then their is absolutely no reason to change that formula. People buy Corvettes right now (30k or so a year) the way they are. Drastically increasing the price to try to attract a new crowd will not equate to more sales, in fact, less.

Chevrolet is not Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc., etc., etc. & will never be. There is zero sense in tanking a business model that has worked for 65 years. If you want an ultra-exclusive, high-dollar, ME sports car go buy one, it wonít be a Corvette.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff V. View Post
When you stop calling it a C8, it starts to make more sense. Until I hear otherwise from GM, I'm sticking to the idea that the ME is an all new model that's meant to replace the loaded Z06 and ZR1 models rather than the entire front engine lineup.
These brakes definitely look like a replacement to a loaded Z06 and ZR1? Earth to everyone, they have been testing the base trim model ME.




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Old 11-14-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 2015GTRBE View Post

itís not crazy, a GTR was the Corvette of Japan and look at how that car has evolved. When you stop worrying about a budget base car your ability to create a car that can TRULY go head to head with the best is the result. Letís also be realistic here, 115k isnt that crazy, itís about what a V8 R8 used to cost in base trim and Iíd like the think Corvette brand has enough self esteem to want to be considered a higher up brand themselves one day.
Apples and oranges. The GTR sells under 2000 per year. The Corvette can be cheaper because of economies of scale.


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Old 11-14-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
Apples and oranges. The GTR sells under 2000 per year. The Corvette can be cheaper because of economies of scale.
+1 A novel concept to some I guess.
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JABCAT View Post


You pretty much pissed away your entire argument right here. If it has no direct competition & performs as well or better than most performance cars that cost double, triple or more, then their is absolutely no reason to change that formula. People buy Corvettes right now (30k or so a year) the way they are. Drastically increasing the price to try to attract a new crowd will not equate to more sales, in fact, less.

Chevrolet is not Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc., etc., etc. & will never be. There is zero sense in tanking a business model that has worked for 65 years. If you want an ultra-exclusive, high-dollar, ME sports car go buy one, it wonít be a Corvette.
Youíre missing the point.. entirely.

GM doesnít need to lower its goals just to accommodate the base car buyer of yesterday. I can afford a Supercar but instead I drive multiple ďlesserĒ cars because I am a rounded enthusiast. Iíd personally love to see Corvette make something that compels me to buy it. I just know that a 60k-70k base car mid engine isnít going to work out all that well if it were attempted.

Are you aware what cars cost 60-70k these days?!!

You think a MID ENGINE V8 should be priced as much as...
lexus RCF base model /low option
BMW M3 base model /low option
BMW 440i high options
BMW 540i sport
BMW Z4 3.0
Cadillac ATSV
Porsche Boxster
Genesis G80
..... list goes on

you canít even buy the Alfa Romeo 4C for 60k!! LOL... guys grow up. How can you be annoyed that GM doesnít want to lower their target anymore? They can still do that with the C7 for a few more years.
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