A recession and the C8
11-26-2018, 10:48 AM
#61
Le Mans Master
$3.8B charge will be taken by GM since sales of sedans and in China have taken a downturn. This makes me all the more confident that the Corvette line will be expanding into sport SUVs. Without that, I’m not sure GM would be able to justify Corvette 2 seaters alone in the future. I can’t see the business case for the $400M expansion of the BG plant in order to produce an ME Sports car alone. Not in the upcoming business environment and where the automobile business is headed long term.
11-26-2018, 11:09 AM
#62
Race Director
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General Motors Keeps Riding Its Trucks
Talking about recessions, looks like GM is not doing so well.....
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...rations-report
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...rations-report
You can google the article title in bold for the full WSJ/Fox article.
11-26-2018, 12:18 PM
#63
Race Director
Same advice Dave Ramsey gives. ^^^^
Unless your net worth is $1 Mil or greater, you should be buying used cars, not new cars. Of course paying cash new or used. Great advice I actually agree with and practice......
.For the guy hawking real estate, prices are probably astronomical everywhere by now. Interest rates are rising. Best wait for a real recession to advise anybody to buy. There's no guarantee that buying real estate automatically means it'll double and buy a new GS. That's just pie in the sky..
Unless your net worth is $1 Mil or greater, you should be buying used cars, not new cars. Of course paying cash new or used. Great advice I actually agree with and practice......
.For the guy hawking real estate, prices are probably astronomical everywhere by now. Interest rates are rising. Best wait for a real recession to advise anybody to buy. There's no guarantee that buying real estate automatically means it'll double and buy a new GS. That's just pie in the sky..
11-26-2018, 12:23 PM
#64
Miles of Smiles
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2016 C5 of the Year Finalist
I saved an article from the WSJ where GM notched record profits, even as the U.S. market softened on passenger sedans. The pickup and SUV remains strong. N. Am. truck factories are running full-on to meet demand. That's helping to offset soft demand for passenger cars forcing production cuts and layoffs. Car makers may be forced to spend more on incentives and make further cuts on passenger car production.
You can google the article title in bold for the full WSJ/Fox article.
You can google the article title in bold for the full WSJ/Fox article.
Thankfully there's no mention of any impact to/on Bowling Green (Corvette), but it's all very "telling" about GM's strategic direction/focus.
A hybrid Corvette would not not only be inevitable, but also a salvation.
Last edited by FrankLP; 11-26-2018 at 12:25 PM.
11-26-2018, 12:24 PM
#65
Le Mans Master
It's worth adding, that if you buy a Vette right and can sell it at your convenience, your losses will be very minimal. That's worth considering.
However, if you are say 26-35, single, and make $180K with no end in sight, I see no problem with financing a killer $65K car. That doesn't include most Gen Yers, but there are plenty of these kids making that kind of money. There is something to be said for living your life while you can, even though it's not always the most prudent. Families, responsibilities, mortgages, and even chromic disease will all be coming soon enough.
See, I argued for both points of view!
Last edited by Suns_PSD; 11-26-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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11-26-2018, 12:26 PM
#66
Burning Brakes
OK, the Brave New World is coming into focus, and it ain't all good news for the auto business. GM just announced 8000 salaried employees will be laid off along with 6500 production workers. Plants closing in Lordstown, OH, Detroit, MI, and Ontario, Canada. Passenger cars to be dropped in 2019: Chevy Volt, Cruze and Impala, Cadillac XTS and CT6. These are big moves, and all BEFORE any recession is apparent.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
11-26-2018, 12:36 PM
#67
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OK, the Brave New World is coming into focus, and it ain't all good news for the auto business. GM just announced 8000 salaried employees will be laid off along with 6500 production workers. Plants closing in Lordstown, OH, Detroit, MI, and Ontario, Canada. Passenger cars to be dropped in 2019: Chevy Volt, Cruze and Impala, Cadillac XTS and CT6. These are big moves, and all BEFORE any recession is apparent.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/42a04ea9...s-on-plan.html
“GM is actually a tad late to adjusting its product line and production capacity to the dramatic car-to-utility shift,” she said. “(Ford Motor Co.) and (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV) already revealed their plans to largely abandon traditional cars. We had expected GM to follow suit, especially in light of 2019’s labor talks with the UAW.”
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 11-26-2018 at 12:49 PM.
11-26-2018, 12:38 PM
#68
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2004
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OK, the Brave New World is coming into focus, and it ain't all good news for the auto business. GM just announced 8000 salaried employees will be laid off along with 6500 production workers. Plants closing in Lordstown, OH, Detroit, MI, and Ontario, Canada. Passenger cars to be dropped in 2019: Chevy Volt, Cruze and Impala, Cadillac XTS and CT6. These are big moves, and all BEFORE any recession is apparent.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
The future of the C8 just got a little sketchier, particularly with C7 sales in a rapid downturn. The delayed C8 intro. may be related to these events. Hopefully Corvette survives, but there is no guarantee. Everyone seems to want a truck or SUV these days.
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...e-could-follow
11-26-2018, 01:00 PM
#69
Drifting
This is being done to optimize/bring efficiency and reduced demand for sedans as compared to utilitarian cars in general, not because the company is struggling. Just look at the share price- it's skyrocketed (+6%) based on this news.
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/42a04ea9...s-on-plan.html
“GM is actually a tad late to adjusting its product line and production capacity to the dramatic car-to-utility shift,” she said. “(Ford Motor Co.) and (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV) already revealed their plans to largely abandon traditional cars. We had expected GM to follow suit, especially in light of 2019’s labor talks with the UAW.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/42a04ea9...s-on-plan.html
“GM is actually a tad late to adjusting its product line and production capacity to the dramatic car-to-utility shift,” she said. “(Ford Motor Co.) and (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV) already revealed their plans to largely abandon traditional cars. We had expected GM to follow suit, especially in light of 2019’s labor talks with the UAW.”
I work at a Chevy dealership in MI and can tell you cars are struggling big-time. Currently, over 90% of our sales are SUVs and trucks so that right there should tell you the direction the market is taking. Sad to see some of those sedans fall by the wayside like the Impala. Surprised that the CT6 will be phased out as well after they just released it 2 years ago! But I do agree that the BG expansion must have some longer term goals besides just building Corvette FE and ME vehicles. I could definitely see GM opening up the Corvette line and including other types of vehicles in its portfolio (like SUVs). Would make perfect sense based on where the markets are headed and what consumers want.
Last edited by dreamr616; 11-26-2018 at 01:00 PM.
11-26-2018, 01:43 PM
#70
Safety Car
——————————————————————————————————————
Bottom line: The Fed’s rate hike has nothing to do with employment, growth, productivity, the state of the economy or inflation. It’s all about the banks. Stock buybacks– which were illegal before the Reagan administration are a deceptive form of financial circlejerk that distorts prices, create bubbles and lead to crisis. The reason the Fed ignores these issues because it sees profitmaking as a higher priority than ensuring the safety of the system. Go figure? I was a Reagan fan.
Forbes Article on stock buy backs.
The Economist has called them “an addiction to corporate cocaine.” Reuters has called them “self-cannibalization.” The Financial Times has called them “an overwhelming conflict of interest.” In an article that won the HBR McKinsey Award for the best article of the year, Harvard Business Review has called them “stock price manipulation.” These influential journals make a powerful case that wholesale stock buybacks are a bad idea—bad economically, bad financially, bad socially, bad legally and bad morally.
Great read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede.../#555bf7353346
100% agree, instead of buybacks they should give dividends.
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11-26-2018, 01:46 PM
#71
My parents (and most others of my generation) lived the Dave Ramsey ethic as the norm. Thankfully they passed that to me and I lived it too.
Coming from a time where I remember banks paying 4.5% on a passbook and throwing in a small appliance to get new customers and you could tell how well a person was doing financially by the car they drove.. A new car in our neighborhood was an "event" and usually brought the neighbors over to proud owners home to"ooh and ahh" over it. Generally this happened about every 6-7 years per household in our Chicago neighborhood.
Most everyone lived within their means and only carried debt on a home loan (which eventually saw full payment and a well attended mortgage burning party) . I've read that the average American family stays in a home only 5-7 years before moving (usually into something bigger and more expensive). I watch House Hunters on HGTV and wonder how some 20 year old couples are looking a $500k homes and finding fault with nearly everything they see. (likely every dime they make is going to go to the mortgage
., a family cell phone plan w/ the latest and greatest Iphone for everyone,
.Appears (at least to me) that much has to do with instant gratification rather than wealth building. I'm guessing that maybe 50% (probably less) of the "boomer" generation will have any measurable wealth to pass on.
Coming from a time where I remember banks paying 4.5% on a passbook and throwing in a small appliance to get new customers and you could tell how well a person was doing financially by the car they drove.. A new car in our neighborhood was an "event" and usually brought the neighbors over to proud owners home to"ooh and ahh" over it. Generally this happened about every 6-7 years per household in our Chicago neighborhood.
Most everyone lived within their means and only carried debt on a home loan (which eventually saw full payment and a well attended mortgage burning party) . I've read that the average American family stays in a home only 5-7 years before moving (usually into something bigger and more expensive). I watch House Hunters on HGTV and wonder how some 20 year old couples are looking a $500k homes and finding fault with nearly everything they see. (likely every dime they make is going to go to the mortgage
., a family cell phone plan w/ the latest and greatest Iphone for everyone,
.Appears (at least to me) that much has to do with instant gratification rather than wealth building. I'm guessing that maybe 50% (probably less) of the "boomer" generation will have any measurable wealth to pass on.
We must be about the same age. Excellent observations.
11-26-2018, 01:54 PM
#72
Problem there is you may well be affected by the same recession, either losing your job or being unable to get the loan needed to purchase. Everyone who says they're waiting on the sidelines for a drop in stocks or real estate to pounce always underestimates what state they'll be in during that same time.
.FWIW, Stocks are a BUY right now.Homes are NOT.
11-26-2018, 02:19 PM
#73
Safety Car
11-26-2018, 03:12 PM
#74
Race Director
Well, if you lose your job, are upside down on your home you bought at record highs, it doesn't much matter. You're still going to default on the loan, lose your home, and credit RUINED. Still think that buying REAL ESTATE or STOCKS for that matter at all time highs are a good idea?
.FWIW, Stocks are a BUY right now.Homes are NOT.
11-26-2018, 03:15 PM
#75
Melting Slicks
$3.8B charge will be taken by GM since sales of sedans and in China have taken a downturn. This makes me all the more confident that the Corvette line will be expanding into sports SUVs. Without that, I’m not sure GM would be able to justify Corvette 2 seaters alone in the future. I can’t see the business case for the $400M expansion of the BG plant in order to produce an ME Sports car alone. Not in the upcoming business environment and where the automobile business is headed long term.
Okay now crazy talk: I think GM should take the BG plant and make it the Performance plant for all performance vehicles under GM similar to AMG with Mercedes. Spread the cost of the plant to all branded lines and then you could move the Corvette slowly away from Chevy and allow it to be serviced under Cadillac.
Last edited by fasttoys; 11-26-2018 at 03:17 PM.
11-26-2018, 03:33 PM
#76
The truck/SUV market is being held up by cheap gas - that won't last forever. The next election will turn that on a dime, then what happens to a GM that produces profit only on SUVs and trucks when gas is $4+ a gallon and new regulations mandate electric only vehicles inside major cities, and then across major states, plus a CAFE ramp up? This may be a short sighted boost for GM, but does not bode well long term.
11-26-2018, 03:39 PM
#77
Melting Slicks
The truck/SUV market is being held up by cheap gas - that won't last forever. The next election will turn that on a dime, then what happens to a GM that produces profit only on SUVs and trucks when gas is $4+ a gallon and new regulations mandate electric only vehicles inside major cities, and then across major states, plus a CAFE ramp up? This may be a short sighted boost for GM, but does not bode well long term.
11-26-2018, 03:43 PM
#78
Race Director
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previews of coming attractions
Yeah it's all over the news today. https://apnews.com/3e51216360e14053ae3e4b3461db615b
Thankfully there's no mention of any impact to/on Bowling Green (Corvette), but it's all very "telling" about GM's strategic direction/focus.
A hybrid Corvette would not not only be inevitable, but also a salvation.
Thankfully there's no mention of any impact to/on Bowling Green (Corvette), but it's all very "telling" about GM's strategic direction/focus.
A hybrid Corvette would not not only be inevitable, but also a salvation.
Speaking of electric... In my old "FL Relocate Thread" I posted links to several FL car shows in post #63. Find the one in that post that links to the Amelia Island show last Mar. That electric C7 Vette was produced by a start-up company in Maryland. Wait till you see the cost: https://forums.corvetteforum.com/sho....php?t=3987105
It would not surprise me if GM is collaborating with that Md. Company on the future Corvette.
Saw another article elsewhere today that said earnings are up for GM and the balance sheet is healthy. It went on to say GM is trying to get ahead of a potential crisis by making cuts now. That plant outside of Toronto was built in 1953 (same year as the Vette intro by model year). Gotta feel bad for all the affected employees in
and 
, especially this time of year.
11-26-2018, 04:38 PM
#80