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CORVETTE PLANT IS SAFE - says Corvette Mike Vietro

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CORVETTE PLANT IS SAFE - says Corvette Mike Vietro

Old 12-01-2018, 09:18 PM
  #41  
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It sure is interesting watching a bunch of retired guys argue back and forth, acting like they know how to run a multi billion dollar company, acting like they know everything about production.
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:43 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by BrunoTheMellow View Post

You're thinking general assembly. Putting 1 motor is or another is simple. Think body shop and paint shop.
OK, I get it. Building more than one model at BGA is just too complicated so the Corvette ME will be the only product.
GM is just too stupid to build multiple vehicles in one plant like other automakers have been doing for years. Yup, that really makes perfect sense.
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Old 12-02-2018, 12:28 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
OK, I get it. Building more than one model at BGA is just too complicated so the Corvette ME will be the only product.
GM is just too stupid to build multiple vehicles in one plant like other automakers have been doing for years. Yup, that really makes perfect sense.
You're a troll.
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:04 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by BrunoTheMellow View Post
GM does build different models of very similar vehicles in several plants. For example. Arlington builds the Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, suburban, Yukon XL, and Escalade esv. But really there is just 2 models short wheel base and long wheel base.

​​​​​The Malibu plant now also makes the xt4.

​​​​​You guys are quoting articles from reporters. I am talking from working in the industry, this is quite literally what I do. Building several very different vehicles in 1 plant is expensive and complicated. For example, the center of balance from 1 vehicle is different than the other. Also the body pick up points. This makes machine design complex.

The BMW plant makes the x3,x4,x5,x6 so far... Thats basically 4 models of 2 cars. The x4 is just an x3 with a slopped roof. Same for the x6 with the x5.
Exactly right. Using PCM's misguided logic and examples from other automakers, BGA currently builds 5 different models. He's once again clueless that building variations of a vehicle on the same chassis is much less complex and less expensive than building entirely different vehicles on different platforms. ME and FE dictates entirely different platforms.

Last edited by Foosh; 12-02-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 12-02-2018, 01:58 PM
  #45  
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WOW lots of comradery in the vette clan I see
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Old 12-02-2018, 03:06 PM
  #46  
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Cutting to the chase on issue raised in this thread:

BGA is safe because the ME is going to be a hit, and they are going to sell as they can make for many years. The profit on a C7 averaged over $11K per car, and GM made around $2,000,000,000 on the current generation.

The ME will bring in more profit/car, sell even more Corvettes. Toward the middle of the first ME generation, GM has plans we will later see that insure BGA will be more than just fine (.e.g., capacity utilization).

There is so much needless angst on this forum.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:57 PM
  #47  
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I think the investment GM made in this plant will help make it more flexible so that it can adapt and survive the changing marketplace.
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:28 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Exactly right. Using PCM's misguided logic and examples from other automakers, BGA currently builds 5 different models. He's once again clueless that building variations of a vehicle on the same chassis is much less complex and less expensive than building entirely different vehicles on different platforms. ME and FE dictates entirely different platforms.
It's a shame I have to keep bringing this up, especially now that they're closing. Hamtramck builds four separate cars on one line. Only two share a basic platform.

Buick Lacrosse - front wheel drive, P2XX platform
Chevy Impala - front wheel drive, P2XX platform
Cadillac CT6 - rear wheel drive, Omega platform
Chevy Volt - front wheel drive, D2XX platform with hybrid gas+electric powertrain

One plant, one line, one body shop. 4 distinct vehicles, 3 distinct powertrain layouts, 3 distinct engineering platforms.

https://plants.gm.com/Facilities/pub...dham/news.html


There's other plants with similar flexibility. Yes, BGA can build front and mid engine cars on one line, with one paint shop.

Last edited by Jeff V.; 12-03-2018 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:03 PM
  #49  
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OK, I stand corrected on my imprecision, but you forgot to mention that Hamtramck is 4X larger than BGA (1m sq ft vs. 4m). I just don't see GM committing to the development of 2 new Corvettes, and the old one is going to continue to suffer shrinking sales if it is continued. I think it's pretty clear GM is putting all their eggs in the ME basket at a broad range of price brackets to generate max sales.

If it were such a valuable asset to GM, it wouldn't be closing, and it must not be terribly efficient or easily reconfigurable to manufacture something else.

Last edited by Foosh; 12-03-2018 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:28 PM
  #50  
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I'm not going to get into its value to GM or what products they would/should/could relocate there. I'm just saying they have the capability.

It looks like they were gearing up to do something similar at Ramos Arizpe with the Cruze (D2XX) and new Blazer (C1XX) before they cancelled the Cruze altogether. Now it's just going to build Blazers.

As for building two Corvettes...stop thinking about one as a replacement for or competitor with the other. They can slot the ME car into the spot currently occupied by the upper end Z06 and ZR1 models. The 55k-85k range can still be served by a front engine car.

But I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me how, based on one single photo of a brake rotor, they can guarantee this will be a $60k car.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:31 PM
  #51  
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Yes, they could do that, but they won't because they do not believe that would be the most successful or cost-effective strategy. That's been essentially confirmed by multiple insiders. It's far more probable that we'll see 5 "models" of the ME platform from base to ZR1 counterpart throughout the run.

Last edited by Foosh; 12-03-2018 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:36 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Jeff V. View Post
I'm not going to get into its value to GM or what products they would/should/could relocate there. I'm just saying they have the capability.
Since the Corvette ME will never hit the production capacity of BGA which is 74,000 annually, GM must produce more than one model there or lose money indefinitely going forward. Why some folks think that is a viable business case for BGA is a real mystery.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:44 PM
  #53  
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No, that's not the current BGA production capacity in the new plant. There you go again citing bogus numbers from a nondescript consultant. GM is making money on the C7 now even at the current reduced production rate due to diminished demand for the C7.

Last edited by Foosh; 12-03-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:46 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
Since the Corvette ME will never hit the production capacity of BGA which is 74,000 annually, GM must produce more than one model there or lose money indefinitely going forward. Why some folks think that is a viable business case for BGA is a real mystery.
You keep saying this like it's some kind of fact. I don't know where that 74k number came from, but even if it was accurate, it doesn't matter.

Profit per car matters. Period. Corvette is not a volume car. It never has been. BGA has never hit that number. It's not even close. Yet the car is still here. Go back to the oft cited bankruptcy story. Profitability, even at "just" 30,000 units, is the only reason the car survived that mess.
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:48 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
Since the Corvette ME will never hit the production capacity of BGA which is 74,000 annually, GM must produce more than one model there or lose money indefinitely going forward. Why some folks think that is a viable business case for BGA is a real mystery.
What makes you think they must sell 74,000 to be profitable? This article proves that BGA makes money selling WAY under 74k a year. What your feeble brain doesn't get is you are basing your whole argument on estimations that are not relevant to a smaller factory like BGA that sells sports cars with high profit margins.
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...rofits-for-gm/
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Old 12-03-2018, 06:48 PM
  #56  
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He's citing some numbers he found from tiny firm (LMC), which claims to be an industry guru.

Last edited by Foosh; 12-03-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:00 PM
  #57  
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Marry Barra talks to congress on Wednesday, let’s see what she says.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:03 PM
  #58  
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I used to work for Congress years ago putting together oversight hearings, and I can assure you that the subject of the ME Corvette is not what they want to talk w/ her about. It won't even come up.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:09 PM
  #59  
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Good. I hope she asks why the champions of capitalism and small government and free markets are trying to dictate how the company is run.
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Old 12-03-2018, 07:28 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Jeff V. View Post
You keep saying this like it's some kind of fact. I don't know where that 74k number came from, but even if it was accurate, it doesn't matter.

Profit per car matters. Period. Corvette is not a volume car. It never has been. BGA has never hit that number. It's not even close. Yet the car is still here. Go back to the oft cited bankruptcy story. Profitability, even at "just" 30,000 units, is the only reason the car survived that mess.
Back in 2009, BGA was much smaller and 30,000 units was much closer to plant capacity. Corvette was profitable looking at the cost of building each car, not looking at the amortization cost of the expanded BGA and the engineering development cost of the ME. By 2009, the development cost of the C6 from the similar C5, was amortized.

The 74K comes from the rated capacity that LMC Automotive gave to GM's continuing assembly plants, three of which, like BGA, are operating at less than 50% capacity. In order to be profitable, the plant must operate at 80% of capacity. GM has a plan, I'm sure, to make BGA operate at more than 80% capacity which would be at least 60K units produced per year. The ME alone is never going to do those numbers.
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