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Corvette Manta Ray: GM's bold new plan

Old 12-06-2018, 05:42 PM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
The massive expansion of the plant by a factor of 3 times it's original size certainly does play into GM's future plan of the Corvette. Mary Barra just came out and gave an intended 80% production capacity directive for all plants going forward. They now have to pay back this huge expansion cost. They will never recoup that cost with one configuration going forward. Not only will both FE and ME configurations go forward, it wouldn't surprise me if the Cadillac ME and Corvette SUV is in the mix. They have so much space available to them now they will have to produce more.
CNBC just reported that overall, FCA's plants are operating at 90% of capacity while GM is at 74%. That represents a huge differential in profitability. GM either increases plant utilization dramatically or more closures are inevitable. There is no choice.

However, with sales slowing, producing more existing product at under-utilized plants only adds to inventory. Bottom line: BGA needs lots of new highly marketable products so your product mix is very likely. We may even see more radical vehicles like the Jeep line-up.
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Old 12-06-2018, 06:15 PM
  #262  
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OP had a very logical post that coincides with much of the info that we already know to be fact. I'd suspect that he works for a supplier that had to be privy to many of these facts to help provide their parts of the C8 equation. Or they could provide truck parts but just get lots of inside info through those channels.

ZERV and a few of those other fools, are just loudmouths that may have actually seen a C8 in testing as a supplier or something, but they clearly know nothing more as they blab about $170K base model Cadillac FE common architecture nonsense.

I don't like the idea of the lack of the manual myself, but frankly it sounds like a supercar killer with a DCT and I understand why GM would drop it in this model. The Camaro has arguably been a better sports car for a couple of years now anyways and it makes perfect sense to have the Camaro fill that role.

Last edited by Suns_PSD; 12-06-2018 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:01 PM
  #263  
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Hey
Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
Say, do any of you wise guys know what these things are? They are very heavy things with lots of rotational inertia. They rev up and down real slow. What happens to all that energy when you shift fast? Heh, what? Now marry these things to your fancy DCT thing and what do you have? Mmmnnn, that's what I thought. These things found on the cheap C8 will be the heaviest ever attached to a DCT, even heavier than F12's or LaFerrari's. OK, now drive it around town on a hot day below 20 mph for an hour or two. Careful what you wish for. You are going to have a new warning light on your dash, you know what it looks like and what it's for? Thought so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM




Could your elaborate? Are you saying that a DCT canít handle a large displacement (heavy) crankshaft?
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:33 PM
  #264  
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Old 12-06-2018, 08:41 PM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
The Hellcat Red Eye has 800 hp for under $72K. How much more frightening do you need?

Yeah....800HP in a 4500 pound car. Pretty scary. Duh........

You really don't have a clue about anything, do you?
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:25 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
Stop Reading My Posts, duh!
I'm participating in the thread, just as you are. How about take your own advice? The fact is OP has presented an internally consistent plausible rumor, the best one in this entire section. And unlike some, it has been fairly well received, as the level of his "thanks" shows. That doesn't mean it is true, but it has no obvious logical errors. It's a good theory. Take a look at your own record to get an idea of who is winning here.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:47 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by need-for-speed View Post
Hey

Could your elaborate? Are you saying that a DCT can’t handle a large displacement (heavy) crankshaft?

Well judging by this video of the C8R, he might not have to worry because it definitely doesn't sound like a cross plane crank engine.


Regardless, there are plenty of manufacturers using normal engine layouts with DCTs.

Last edited by Kappa; 12-06-2018 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:54 PM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by Kappa View Post
Well judging by this video of the C8R, he might not have to worry because it definitely doesn't sound like a cross plane crank engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=kfg71KgtxO4

Regardless, there are plenty of manufacturers using normal engine layouts with DCTs.
Well Mr. Kappa,you just threw a bomb in this thread ...
Never seen that video.
Thanks
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:06 AM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by Kappa View Post
Well judging by this video of the C8R, he might not have to worry because it definitely doesn't sound like a cross plane crank engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=100&v=kfg71KgtxO4

Regardless, there are plenty of manufacturers using normal engine layouts with DCTs.
Nice video. Sounds to me like it could be a “small” displacement turbo V-8. Also interesting is that line/spear shape low on the door which runs inside the side scoop. Are the side scoops an oversize non-production part required to cool the race car? ME cars, especially with a full belly pan to make the diffuser effective, require a lot of air flow to to manage exhaust/transaxle/brake heat.

I’ll be at Sebring this weekend for a CHIN DE. Will check out the building that manufacturers use - just in case.

Edit: OP’s post was well presented and is very believable. Sale at any GM dealer, however, sounds like a wet dream. I’ve been retired from the industry a long time, but more than a few times, I was shocked at some of the inane ideas and comments aired at top management meetings. Maybe the “plan” is Sale by any GM dealer but only if they had survived an intense selection process including sales and service training and demonstrated competency as well as a separate showroom. e.g., in a major metro area only three of the ten Chevrolet dealers might qualify, one Buick store, one Cadillac store, etc.

Last edited by FB1; 12-07-2018 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Kudo to OP
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:33 AM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by FB1 View Post


Nice video. Sounds to me like it could be a ďsmallĒ displacement turbo V-8. Also interesting is that line/spear shape low on the door which runs inside the side scoop. Are the side scoops an oversize non-production part required to cool the race car? ME cars, especially with a full belly pan to make the diffuser effective, require a lot of air flow to to manage exhaust/transaxle/brake heat.

Iíll be at Sebring this weekend for a CHIN DE. Will check out the building that manufacturers use - just in case.
Being that this is probably the race car, it may have a smaller displacement than the production model might have, as they C7.R has. I wonder if those are the real lights though, I think it's the first time we've seen those.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:41 AM
  #271  
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Guys there's a whole thread for that video. Racecar will probably have a TT V6 for rules, and yes... we see the tails for the first time. I like them.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:29 AM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
Guys there's a whole thread for that video. Racecar will probably have a TT V6 for rules, and yes... we see the tails for the first time. I like them.
...but it was posted here first
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:06 AM
  #273  
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Good info, seems credible.

If GM peeps seeing this "If GM doesn't want to keep their jobs in the United States, they should pay back the $11.2 billion bailout that was funded by the American taxpayer,"
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Old 12-07-2018, 11:23 AM
  #274  
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No manual transmission isn't a surprise. A lot of people can't drive them and you get better performance out of the modern DCT. It all sounds plausible though we will see what happens.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:53 PM
  #275  
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what's so beastly about a 5.5L twin turbo?
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:42 PM
  #276  
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I am not disappointed in the C-8 and it's future options. The name Mante Ray ?? But, I am very disappointed in the impact it has on choices for an affordable sports car. ie…………..if you can't afford the C-8 you get to step DOWN to a Camaro. Please say it is not so. I don't care what you do to the Camaro to improve performance, it will not be a Corvette. It will be a Camaro...………………….

Guess you could move Camaro production (the high performance option) to Bowling Green because you sure won't be building enough C-8's to fill the newly increased (to almost 1,000,000 sq.ft.) facility.

Sounds like the Corvette brand will be damaged. Yes it will now be a brand of it's own not affiliated with Chevrolet, and that may not be a bad thing. That may allow for future innovation and performance of the vehicle. But to all the old loyal customers...………...IT SUCkS. Very disappointed to see an American Sports Car end this way.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:04 PM
  #277  
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I really hope a lot of this is true!
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:30 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by marktsmith View Post

Sounds like the Corvette brand will be damaged. Yes it will now be a brand of it's own not affiliated with Chevrolet, and that may not be a bad thing. That may allow for future innovation and performance of the vehicle. But to all the old loyal customers...ÖÖÖ...IT SUCkS. Very disappointed to see an American Sports Car end this way.
Why would you be disappointed about something that hasn't happened based off of an internet forum post? Weird.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:31 PM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by themonk View Post
what's so beastly about a 5.5L twin turbo?

Without knowing the many variables we really can't say. But McLaren and Ferrari get over 700hp from a 3.8 or 3.9L TT v8. Add 40% more displacement and you have potential for a whole lot of power. Or 700hp made more easily without all the higher costs of a more boosted engine.
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:55 PM
  #280  
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The OP could have inside info of just good speculation of what has been said in the past:
  • ~2 years ago it was stated that Caddy engineers were involved and would introduce a Caddy version of the C8! Considering what happened to the Caddy brand and profitability can understand Mary Bara and company pulled that plug some time ago! However the OP's comment about the 2021, quoting: "Corvette Grand Tour and Corvette Grand Sport. The GT is as luxurious as if Cadillac designed it, because a Cadillac team is in fact responsible for the GT. It’s a true GT and in addition to standard MRC it will deploy a full gamut of NVH countermeasures like acoustic glass, heavy sound deadening, and special wheels/tires," fits! I have speculated for that a Caddy version made sense for all those that complain about the C7 noise, the lack of tires that can be driven below 40F, and other "luxury car" feathers. If it does get "engineered sound deadening" then they could have a first class sound system. The GT version can have more compliant suspension for those who never get near 1 "g" lateral acceleration.
  • A number of folks have speculated about the C8 having the double overhead cam twin turbo 4.2 Liter Caddy engine. Frankly surprised that would not be in the base "Manta Ray!" Guess they will cater to the "must have a big pushrod V8" for a few more years if in fact a variant of the LT1 is in the base car. However the engine in Germany reportedly sounded more like a smaller cid higher rpm engine rather than an old pushrod V8- we'll see if perhaps both aren't introduced initially.
  • The timing of a one year delay for the two other models is possible. Guess if the initial car does in fact have a "modified" LT1, I'll wait for year 2 and get the Zora Grand Sport!
  • I have speculated there will be a type of semi hybrid model, one with Start/Stop and an F1 KERS type system. But that is no doubt a few years away. With that, in normal cruising the gasoline engine does not need to start until at ~cruising speed. A good deal of energy is expended getting from a stop or slow speed to cruising speed. KERS could produce that power and generate the replacement energy when braking. It's just a question of time, IMO. Oh yea, when driving in anger it would provide and extra ~150 hp for 5 or 6 sends as it's used in F1!
Only time will tell!

Last edited by JerryU; 12-07-2018 at 09:54 PM.
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