GM Authority: C8 Delayed 6 Months Over Electrical Issue
12-13-2018, 11:09 AM
#81
12-13-2018, 11:10 AM
#82
Read todays WSJ about Ms. Barra in October assigning cost reduction percentages to each executive and was the BG plant part of this ? Could the engineers looking for ways to cut the cost of parts for the ME and need more time to do it ?
12-13-2018, 11:14 AM
#83
Guys guys guys...
at this phase all the testing ting done on the car is for durability purposes. Something BROKE after a period of operation. Whether it’s electrical or mechanical is up for debate, nothing on the car now, during this phase of testing, would have been found to “can’t handle the load.”
Anecdote time. The company I worked for used to supply parts to a Tier One that supplies to GM (*cough* Hurst Shifters on the Camaro *cough*). We designed the part in collaboration with GM, and in durability testing they found that one of the bushings inside the mechanism would fail after about a million shifts. The part fit fine, operated fine, we had actually placed a 7 figure order for parts when they came back and said “um, no. Scrap that purchase order.”
We had to reorder a higher durometer bushing, mad rush the assembly, scrap a container full of parts, and re-do our durability testing and document to show that the bushing will last well past the LIFETIME of the car they’re installed in. It was a pain in our butts, and as the car was already rolling off the assembly line it was high hell to pay on our end.
But sh*t like this actually happens more often than not, especially during the end stages of development and testing. Stuff that worked fine as specified ended up breaking during durability testing.
at this phase all the testing ting done on the car is for durability purposes. Something BROKE after a period of operation. Whether it’s electrical or mechanical is up for debate, nothing on the car now, during this phase of testing, would have been found to “can’t handle the load.”
Anecdote time. The company I worked for used to supply parts to a Tier One that supplies to GM (*cough* Hurst Shifters on the Camaro *cough*). We designed the part in collaboration with GM, and in durability testing they found that one of the bushings inside the mechanism would fail after about a million shifts. The part fit fine, operated fine, we had actually placed a 7 figure order for parts when they came back and said “um, no. Scrap that purchase order.”
We had to reorder a higher durometer bushing, mad rush the assembly, scrap a container full of parts, and re-do our durability testing and document to show that the bushing will last well past the LIFETIME of the car they’re installed in. It was a pain in our butts, and as the car was already rolling off the assembly line it was high hell to pay on our end.
But sh*t like this actually happens more often than not, especially during the end stages of development and testing. Stuff that worked fine as specified ended up breaking during durability testing.
When I have product fail, I'm typically thankful that it does so that we don't have a bigger problem on our hands with warranty claims, tainting brand image, avoid law suits, losing the business on that product line altogether, etc.
We have a two-tier structure. First tier is the R&D dept conducts a whole slew of tests to ensure that the product functions as intended with the specific performance characteristics needed.
Then the Quality team puts it through the ringer to try and make it fail or break within reason.
12-13-2018, 11:25 AM
#84
Drifting
I’m no engineer... but electrical engineering is pretty old science. Wiring, fuses, your configuration.
and the mules, granted without bells and whistle systems, are running fine.
six months doesn’t sound right for that kind of problem. Maybe it is routine for durability testing standards though.
interesting this leak in itself, maybe the GM shorts, or executives sandbagging expectations.
Last edited by Parcival; 12-13-2018 at 11:32 AM.
12-13-2018, 11:28 AM
#85
All the “rumors” of a hybridized future version with electric assisted propulsion are just that, rumors. Although, most auto manufactures today have figured out a way to add hybridized systems and design around the electrical needs of a platform that need to handle BOTH.
With GM’s experience on the Volt and Bolt, it’s IMPOSSIBLE that their engineers don’t have the knowhow to anticipate electrical or hybridized needs in the platform. Anyone assuming so don’t have their facts straight and is just speculating.
IF something on the mules broke and is causing GM to “go back to the drawing board” this causing delays in the launch plans? It ain’t failure to anticipate the electric load for a hybrid or electric drive that’s for sure.
I still suspect it’s something that broke in durability testing, if indeed that is what happened. If it’s the 12V system unable to handle all the additional electronic requirements, it wouldn’t be related to the hybridized drive (that runs at several THOUSAND volts I believe) nor would it pop up NOW. Electrical load issues would have been resolved a LONG time ago.
Now, I would believe that the electric harnesses are being redesigned and rerouted due to say, a chafing issue causing a short over long term testing. That’s entirely possible and actually happens ALL THE TIME. That would result in a supplier redesign and further testing, causing MONTHS of delay in launch. That kind of problem can’t be predicted nor tested in lab environments, except for real world testing on mules.
The following 3 users liked this post by The HACK:
12-13-2018, 11:59 AM
#87
Le Mans Master
I've got a friend who's an electrical engineer. He's taught college level courses, he's worked for Chrysler and Ford, and he currently works at a multinational electronics company that supplies the automotive industry, among many others. As far as I know, he's got no exposure to anything GM is working on, so he was able to give me some professional speculation.
We discussed the possibility for a 48 volt electrical system, as well as lightweight lithium batteries and increased electrification in even non-hybrid cars (electric power steering, braking, water pump, AC, etc etc).
With modern cars, your alternator is not 'always on'. It switches on to recharge things as needed. The more electrical load you have, the more you need to manage your alternator strategy. As the alternator switches on and off with demand, this can cause a noticeable drop in the torque output from the engine.
As you add in new stuff like 48 volt systems, new battery chemistries, and lightweight harnesses that use aluminium rather than copper, these challenges only get more difficult.
Maybe some of this applies to the C8. Maybe none of it does. Who knows. The only thing we know for sure is that anyone who thinks this is "easy" is a fool.
We discussed the possibility for a 48 volt electrical system, as well as lightweight lithium batteries and increased electrification in even non-hybrid cars (electric power steering, braking, water pump, AC, etc etc).
With modern cars, your alternator is not 'always on'. It switches on to recharge things as needed. The more electrical load you have, the more you need to manage your alternator strategy. As the alternator switches on and off with demand, this can cause a noticeable drop in the torque output from the engine.
As you add in new stuff like 48 volt systems, new battery chemistries, and lightweight harnesses that use aluminium rather than copper, these challenges only get more difficult.
Maybe some of this applies to the C8. Maybe none of it does. Who knows. The only thing we know for sure is that anyone who thinks this is "easy" is a fool.
12-13-2018, 12:33 PM
#88
Drifting
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Sierra Mtns. The Great State Of Jefferson
Posts: 1,810
Received 169 Likes
on
128 Posts
We haven't seen many pictures of C8 test mules on the street for awhile now. So I wonder when the 6 month delay started. We might be 2 or 3 months in to the delay already and only 3 months or so left.
The following users liked this post:
firstvettesoon (12-13-2018)
The following users liked this post:
firstvettesoon (12-13-2018)
12-13-2018, 01:15 PM
#90
Melting Slicks
No one is going to convince me there is a major electrical problem unless it's a hybrid component. GM builds Caddys with heated front and rear seats, DVD players, power folding seats, heated steering wheels, power freaking everything and they somehow manage. a little 2 seat sports car isn't going to kill the electrical system
The following users liked this post:
RedDropTop (12-13-2018)
12-13-2018, 01:31 PM
#91
No one is going to convince me there is a major electrical problem unless it's a hybrid component. GM builds Caddys with heated front and rear seats, DVD players, power folding seats, heated steering wheels, power freaking everything and they somehow manage. a little 2 seat sports car isn't going to kill the electrical system
12-13-2018, 01:37 PM
#92
Melting Slicks
12-13-2018, 01:45 PM
#93
12-13-2018, 01:53 PM
#94
Le Mans Master
12-13-2018, 01:56 PM
#95
Yup. Also, there may not be as much space in a ME to put larger batteries that can support these loads. I'm thinking that GM tried to keep the batteries to a minimal in order to save enough space for a trunk/storage (between the seats and engine) for 1 golf bag and also additional storage space in the front.
They may be desperately trying to retain as much storage space as possible to please those that want the car as a daily and be able to go golfing or road trips with the car.
They may be desperately trying to retain as much storage space as possible to please those that want the car as a daily and be able to go golfing or road trips with the car.
12-13-2018, 01:56 PM
#96
12-13-2018, 02:22 PM
#98
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Apr 2005
Location: West Burbs of Chicago IL
Posts: 6,691
Received 3,978 Likes
on
1,672 Posts
Guess who's getting a first year C8? NOT THIS GUY!
The following users liked this post:
ojm (12-13-2018)
12-13-2018, 02:42 PM
#100
the jeeps that dont have the 48 volt battery have two batteries in the engine compartment to assist the stop/start. and if you check some of the jl wrangler forums, you we see there have been a ton of problems with the new wrangler associated with the electrical system. i had planned to add a wrangler to my personal cars but due to all the issues i have put it off.
jeep is adding some sort of stop/start or electric torque assist to all wranglers to address EPA requirements. perhaps gm is doing the same with the c8 and they have run into issues with battery capacity, and/or power distribution components like jeep.