The Revolution of the Chevrolet Corvette… and why it won’t be as expensive as you thi
12-14-2018, 10:24 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
I agree that moving the engine mid ship on the Corvette should not raise the price to the stratosphere.Mass production and volume sales keeps the Corvette affordable to many. It will be the same with the C8. The Corvette has always been the price leader sports car that performs with other sports cars costing twice as much or more. I am sure GM/ Chevrolet will continue to keep that trend in the future. I do not agree however, that the Corvette should ever be it's own brand. It should always be a "Chevrolet Corvette"!
12-15-2018, 08:35 AM
#22
Melting Slicks
And exactly ZERO of the cars on your list are what could be considered high performance mid-engine designs. If GM's goal was to build a 350 hp ME like the Cayman/Boxster or Alfa 4C, they could do it for a very good price - the market for what essentially would be a reincarnation of the Fiero under the Corvette name is next to nil. To build a ME with at least 700 hp, which is what the top C8 needs to be considered a replacement and upgrade from the C7, takes far more in materials, chassis stiffness and mechanical systems than building one at 350 hp.
Last edited by LIStingray; 12-15-2018 at 08:36 AM.
12-15-2018, 08:58 AM
#23
Drifting
Some good points that you make. The Corvette has always been a car for the hard working American. But is it now?
Back in the 50's and 60's, most families had 1 vehicle. Pensions were more common. People were going to work and not college. People were no where near as materialistic as they are now. Today, families have multiple vehicles. Not going to college and having $100k in student loan debt is now a social stigma. Pensions are virtually extinct. The average family has $10k in credit card debt.
GM hoped to attract a younger demographic with the C7 and pull Porsche and import buyers. The C7 is an engineering marvel and the best value in a sports car, period. But, the same core group of people bought the new Corvette. The sad truth is the Corvette Loyalist, as a group, is aging. When they are gone, will there be enough buyers to sustain the Corvette? I don't believe so.
There is a tremendous profit potential for dealers in Corvettes. And GM knows that there is tremendous profit for themselves as well. The car has been ill-marketed for a long time, much due to the loose standards placed on the dealer for handling Corvettes. The C8 is GM's chance to revolutionize Corvette, to maximize their profit and keep the brand alive for another 7+ decades. 1 way to achieve this is to offer a performance model for each step in a person's life. A hard working American with a young family would enjoy a performance small CUV. As their family grows they will jump up to a mid-size performance CUV. And then, when affordable, a sports car, the C8 (9, 10, 11, 12, etc...).
Back in the 50's and 60's, most families had 1 vehicle. Pensions were more common. People were going to work and not college. People were no where near as materialistic as they are now. Today, families have multiple vehicles. Not going to college and having $100k in student loan debt is now a social stigma. Pensions are virtually extinct. The average family has $10k in credit card debt.
GM hoped to attract a younger demographic with the C7 and pull Porsche and import buyers. The C7 is an engineering marvel and the best value in a sports car, period. But, the same core group of people bought the new Corvette. The sad truth is the Corvette Loyalist, as a group, is aging. When they are gone, will there be enough buyers to sustain the Corvette? I don't believe so.
There is a tremendous profit potential for dealers in Corvettes. And GM knows that there is tremendous profit for themselves as well. The car has been ill-marketed for a long time, much due to the loose standards placed on the dealer for handling Corvettes. The C8 is GM's chance to revolutionize Corvette, to maximize their profit and keep the brand alive for another 7+ decades. 1 way to achieve this is to offer a performance model for each step in a person's life. A hard working American with a young family would enjoy a performance small CUV. As their family grows they will jump up to a mid-size performance CUV. And then, when affordable, a sports car, the C8 (9, 10, 11, 12, etc...).
I complement you on your posts in your thread.
I’ve enjoyed your historical brief on the Corvette and your speculation for it’s future.
Thank you.
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n8dogg (12-15-2018)
12-15-2018, 09:23 AM
#24
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
And exactly ZERO of the cars on your list are what could be considered high performance mid-engine designs. If GM's goal was to build a 350 hp ME like the Cayman/Boxster or Alfa 4C, they could do it for a very good price - the market for what essentially would be a reincarnation of the Fiero under the Corvette name is next to nil. To build a ME with at least 700 hp, which is what the top C8 needs to be considered a replacement and upgrade from the C7, takes far more in materials, chassis stiffness and mechanical systems than building one at 350 hp.
12-15-2018, 09:52 AM
#25
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
No way many current Chevy dealers could justify a separate facility for selling and servicing Corvettes. My dealer sells less than 10 per year and I have never seen one being serviced other than mine and I've been there about 10 times. This would not be all bad especially if GM polices the dealers to maintain a high level of training for both sales and service personnel. If that means far less dealers selling and servicing Corvettes, so be it. I would gladly drive 100 miles to a dealer that has a well trained service department and a well stocked parts department. On 2 occasions my car was up on a lift for weeks waiting for parts and guidance from GM. This is totally unacceptable and a primary reason why I probably will not buy another Corvette unless I move to a city with a dealer that does sell and service a lot of Corvettes. Rant over. Peace.
One way to push the base price of the new C8 into six figures, would be to build separate buildings or service departments dedicated to service one model (Corvette) of a brand (Chevrolet). Yeah, that makes solid business sense.
Like Ford and Fiat, GM has realigned brands and consolidated dealerships over the past decade, eliminated some brands and models, and has even bought out or forced out underperforming dealerships.
Like GM, the Volkswagen Group owns a number brands, including Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, and Porsche.
Like Chevrolet, Porsche is a brand with many models sports cars, sedans, and a couple of SUVs. Porsche does not have separate dealers or service departments for the 911, or any other model.
The Corvette (not Zora or Manta Ray) has successfully been marketed and serviced as a Chevrolet model since 1953.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Unless you want the buyer to pay for the unnecessary repairs.
Like Ford and Fiat, GM has realigned brands and consolidated dealerships over the past decade, eliminated some brands and models, and has even bought out or forced out underperforming dealerships.
Like GM, the Volkswagen Group owns a number brands, including Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, and Porsche.
Like Chevrolet, Porsche is a brand with many models sports cars, sedans, and a couple of SUVs. Porsche does not have separate dealers or service departments for the 911, or any other model.
The Corvette (not Zora or Manta Ray) has successfully been marketed and serviced as a Chevrolet model since 1953.
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Unless you want the buyer to pay for the unnecessary repairs.
If Chevrolet can make 3000 dealers invest millions and millions of dollars to redesign and update their buildings to adhere to the manufacturer's image, I am sure they will find several hundred that are willing to invest in a new brand called Corvette. Believe me, if GM is going to make more money, they will incentivize the dealers.
What people don't realize is how different the automotive industry is going to be in just 5 years from now. The majority of vehicles offered from GM and Ford will be electric. How we purchase cars will be dramatically different as well. People want convenience, they want immediate information, and the art of negotiation will be long gone.
Last edited by n8dogg; 12-15-2018 at 09:52 AM.
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C82021 (10-28-2020)
12-15-2018, 01:34 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
It is more like 40% out of 10 dealerships, and if GM wanted to fix that, all it would need to do is cut the margin from MSRP on Corvettes to 3% instead of 12% - that would disinsentivize people from buying at a big discount instead of paying MSRP, which is what the dealer that sells 2-10 cars per year still charges. Of course, for GM that will mean far less overall sales as the average retail price goes up by 10%, and for the consumer they will get to pay a higher price for much crappier service - but it would help small volume Corvette dealers be more equal.
10-28-2020, 11:58 AM
#27
You've outlined the problem. GM doesn't want all of the Chevy dealers selling and servicing Corvettes. There isn't enough volume, or enough dealers who want to put up the $ and effort to properly handle the car. At the same time there aren't enough dealers now. Which is why people purchase Corvettes from across the country and have them shipped to them when they have a Chevrolet dealer within a short drive from their house. At one time it made sense for the Corvette to be sold and serviced at your local Chevrolet dealer. They were a simple design. It didn't require any more skill to service a Corvette VS a Nomad. And rarely did you need to keep your Corvette at the dealer for more than a day. Today, and since the 80's with the introduction of Crossfire, ABS, Traction Control. Engine Computers, more complex and compact designs, Corvettes became more and more specialized and technical, classic Corvettes became more and more desired and valuable, the Corvette brand and cult following grew stronger and stronger. Everything about the Corvette has changed, dramatically, except for 1 thing; how the car is purchased and serviced. This is not good for Chevrolet or the Corvette owner. Simply put, its better for business to have more support catered to Corvette owners spread more equally across the Nation. And you're right, people will drive 100 miles to have their Corvette serviced by someone they trust. And 100 miles is much better than 2000.
It is broke. It's broke when you have 10% to 20% of Corvette sales being sold out of 3 Chevrolet dealerships when there are 3000 dealerships in the Nation. The fact that Corvette is a "Chevrolet" mattered less and less as time went on, especially with the introduction of the C4ZR1 and C5. The cars were unlike anything else that GM offered and the name Corvette had a much stronger bearing than Chevrolet. Heck, Corvette is even treated as a separate brand within Chevrolet with its very own team of design, engineers, PR, it's own plant, etc...
If Chevrolet can make 3000 dealers invest millions and millions of dollars to redesign and update their buildings to adhere to the manufacturer's image, I am sure they will find several hundred that are willing to invest in a new brand called Corvette. Believe me, if GM is going to make more money, they will incentivize the dealers.
What people don't realize is how different the automotive industry is going to be in just 5 years from now. The majority of vehicles offered from GM and Ford will be electric. How we purchase cars will be dramatically different as well. People want convenience, they want immediate information, and the art of negotiation will be long gone.
It is broke. It's broke when you have 10% to 20% of Corvette sales being sold out of 3 Chevrolet dealerships when there are 3000 dealerships in the Nation. The fact that Corvette is a "Chevrolet" mattered less and less as time went on, especially with the introduction of the C4ZR1 and C5. The cars were unlike anything else that GM offered and the name Corvette had a much stronger bearing than Chevrolet. Heck, Corvette is even treated as a separate brand within Chevrolet with its very own team of design, engineers, PR, it's own plant, etc...
If Chevrolet can make 3000 dealers invest millions and millions of dollars to redesign and update their buildings to adhere to the manufacturer's image, I am sure they will find several hundred that are willing to invest in a new brand called Corvette. Believe me, if GM is going to make more money, they will incentivize the dealers.
What people don't realize is how different the automotive industry is going to be in just 5 years from now. The majority of vehicles offered from GM and Ford will be electric. How we purchase cars will be dramatically different as well. People want convenience, they want immediate information, and the art of negotiation will be long gone.
10-28-2020, 12:17 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
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We really needed this 2 year old BS thread brought back?
10-28-2020, 12:35 PM
#29
It is more like 40% out of 10 dealerships, and if GM wanted to fix that, all it would need to do is cut the margin from MSRP on Corvettes to 3% instead of 12% - that would disinsentivize people from buying at a big discount instead of paying MSRP, which is what the dealer that sells 2-10 cars per year still charges. Of course, for GM that will mean far less overall sales as the average retail price goes up by 10%, and for the consumer they will get to pay a higher price for much crappier service - but it would help small volume Corvette dealers be more equal.
10-28-2020, 12:45 PM
#31
Moderator
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919cw313 (10-28-2020)