BEAR-AvHistory

Do you think GM's quality reliability image VS the Japanese quality reliability image has anything to do with its decline? How many people say American cars suck? Why did GM crash verses the completion while FORD had a softer decline?

In the survey GM declined a full 29% points which happens to be FORDS total market share the year the survey starts to a point where today they are 2 to 3% apart. Does FORD have superior products or are they just thought to be superior?

BEAR-AvHistory

Why not? They sell 800,000 trucks & 51,000 Camaro's a year, the economy of scale is there. Bad business decisions on engine development & implementation in the past? The SBC is good enough lets ride it out till we can clear the Bailout while the rest of the worlds companies who had money to spend was converting to DOHC.

They have already sunk development costs in the 4.2 BlackWing being built in Bowling Green. They would have to be crazy not to leverage that work into a 5.0 - 5.5 Corvette engine.

The engine is going into series production which will drive the unit cost down. Cadillac said:

We expect the Blackwing motor to also be used in the 2020 Cadillac Escalade as well as in the high-performance version of the Cadillac CT5, potentially called CT5-V.

Foosh

This is getting very tiresome. Over and out . . .

jefnvk

Umm, unless I'm mistaken Dodge didn't abandon their pushrod for their ridiculous cars, either. So, one OEM had their V8 engine changed from pushrod to DOHC in that time?

I can just imagine the joy the 800k+ folks who buy GM trucks would have to know they were getting a canned Cadillac sports car engine in place of their reliable workhorse OHVs.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe as much pain as the Cadillac buyers getting Chevy motors.

Sounds like a solid business plan. Take advice from the 3rd place truck vendor with pushrods rather then the first place truck vendor with DOHCs.

Sometime we all bring up stuff we should not but the Dodge thing caused me to look at some numbers. Never would have guessed this but Mustang outsold Camaro by 25,000 cars last year.

Just a side note. Never owned a Mustang. Had two "pony" cars 1969 Trans Am & a 1984 Z-28.

Tom73

I have no doubt that we will see a TT DOHC engine in the Vette. But that engine will only be used in the performance versions, the new Z06/ZR1. The base engine will still be a tried and true NA LT variant. So we will still have the OHV engine in the overwhelming percentage of Corvettes. Main reason for continuing the LT is that it gets the job done for the majority of Vette buyers and it does it at a reasonable cost.

jefnvk

So, why is the Corvette sticking with a big NA V8? Far more sports cars are sold with FI 4 and 6 cylinders than NA V8s. Even Ford ditched the V8 for the GT.

BEAR-AvHistory

jefnvk & Tom73 With all due respect.

We don't know at this point what will be in the C8, its all internet speculation, bench racing & wishful thinking. Fun way to kill some time but not one to bet your life on.

Warp Factor

Ford's latest V8 engine uses pushrods. Why do you suppose that is?

BEAR-AvHistory

Have no idea why don't you check it out. Right tool for the right job?

Isn't it for the SuperDuty truck line. Guess would be is a cheaper to manufacture heavy duty truck engine replacing a prior truck engine.

Think its a square design which is generally truck specific low RPM high torque engines. See no problem with that. With similar bore spacing to the BOSS/Hurricane V8 would be nice to see they can reuse some old tooling. That said a 7.2L cast iron block, cast iron crank heavy duty truck engine is not going to challenge a COYOTE in the car & light truck market.

More of a cheap alternative to the Powerstroke Diesel.

Warp Factor

That's it's initial application. Ford says it will fit in the Mustang. Of course, that doesn't mean FoMoCo will necessarily put it there themself.....
Forged steel crank, crossbolted mains.

Chrysler's most powerful engine (in the Demon) is also pushrod. Maybe Ford is finally catching up with GM and Chrysler?

BEAR-AvHistory

Port injection only. After Ford added port and direct fuel injection to the F-150's six-cylinder engines and changed the 5.0-liter to direct injection last year, we were a bit surprised to find port injection on this clean-sheet engine. It turns out the anticipated higher-load, lower-speed duty cycle these Super Duty applications experience don't warrant the increased expense of direct injection. Also, the new 10-speed automatic transmission helps keep the engine operating in its "peak efficiency island" of 1,500 to 2,500 rpm

Electricians working on the house killed my power before I got finished.


Port injection only. After Ford added port and direct fuel injection to the F-150's six-cylinder engines and changed the 5.0-liter to direct injection last year, we were a bit surprised to find port injection on this clean-sheet engine. It turns out the anticipated higher-load, lower-speed duty cycle these Super Duty applications experience don't warrant the increased expense of direct injection. Also, the new 10-speed automatic transmission helps keep the engine operating in its "peak efficiency island" of 1,500 to 2,500 rpm."

I believe cross bolted mains are standard on FORD V8's I know mine has them.

For people thinking the COYOTE which weights 12lbs more the the Chevy is too heavy, have to wonder how much Godzilla weighs. Its a truck engine.

BTW The Godzilla thing was used already by the Nissan GT-R

Godzilla in a Mustang give me a break. To heavy, will not pass CAFE & Coyote/Voodoo will put out as much power in a usable DD automobile RPM range. I can see a SEMA Show Frankenstein for impressing the teenagers. Practical usage in a production street car with so much else available, nope.

Dodge Demon - who in their right mind would buy one for a daily driver? Dodge makes you sign a legal document (waiver) on usage before they will let you buy it. As for a drag racer there are a lot of cheaper ways into the mid 9's then $85,000. What exactly is a Demon for outside TV commercials about destroying tires?

BTW did they ever get NHRA legal or it still just a marketing thing? My car can't run legally since it lacks a cage & the Demon as delivered is quicker & faster.

Warp Factor

Direct injection has its advantages and disadvantages. Any C7 owner can speak to the increased soot accumulation on the rear of the car. Any LT4 owner who has modified for a large increase in power can speak to the expense of providing adequate fuel delivery. Both Ford and GM have added supplemental port injection on their highest horsepower engines. Increased fuel delivery is more easily done, and done at lower cost, with port injection.

It remains to be seen what Ford's ultimate plans are for this engine. It has the basic DNA to be easily modified into a spectacular power producer.
Thanks for finally acknowledging that a larger displacement engine can be more efficient than a smaller displacement engine revving it's pants off. You are not an easy student, but not entirely hopeless.

Zaro Tundov

GM should take their cue from Toyota, which have decided not to offer GDI alone due to the reliability issues of carbon buildup on intake valves. They use both port and direct injection to keep the intake valves clean so that power and efficiency don't degrade.

Warp Factor

Audi had huge problems with intake valve deposit buildup on their early direct injection engines. I haven't kept track of whether on not this is a problem on GM LT direct-injection-only engines.

Dominic Sorresso

Zaro,

BMW has experinced same issue. The addition of PFI is meant to reduce carbon buildup on the back side of valves.

jefnvk

Sure is

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree had a walnut blast to clear the valves on one car. That one was running 18.5PSI Seems FI engines are the most effected by it. Found cutting a Catch Can into the EGR line pretty much eliminated it on any of mine so far. It filters out about 3 spoon fulls of oil over a four month period of DD.

Mixing Port & Direct is the only long term cure.

BEAR-AvHistory

Actually all it says its designed to run like a proper heavy truck engine. Low RPM grunt. Same general RPM range as a diesel truck. Nothing about efficiency since we don't know what its horsepower or fuel economy is, unless you have seen something.

I believe the F150 COYOTE with the Whipple supercharger is 5.0 725BHP @ 7,000 RPM. The 6.2L ZR1 supercharged is 755BHP @ 6300 RPM. Don't know the boost on either. No published numbers on the supercharged 5.2 VOODOO for the GT500 other then 700+. Right now max VOODOO is 526BHP N/A.

23/C8Z

(Insert the thread derailment meme here)