JerriVette

Maxie2U

JerriVette

JD_AMG

Christmas facts:

Confirmation bias. Although any list I've ever seen always has GM's pushrod V6 on it. Any unbiased list of performance engines will have GMs SBC(gen1 and gen 3+) on it.

hp/l is completely and utterly useless on production cars, and is plain out ricer math. Displacement is basically meaningless in this context and peak HP doesn't tell the whole story. Pushrod engines are lighter even when displacements are not equal. The 6.2L LS3 is lighter and smaller than the 5L Coyote by a good margin:


And before you start trying to quote weights, keep in mind that GM likes to weigh their engines with the 60lbs clutch assembly attached. The LSx family is under 400lbs undressed... That is in the range of smaller displaced aluminum DOHC V6s that make a fraction of the power and are still physically bigger...

Heres another good size example, how about a big ole 6.2L next to a 1.8L I4?


Whoops looks like the pushrod engine is comparable in size while making over double the power and torque.

You mean like the 488...oh whoops
But in all seriousness, look at the cost of those NA engines spinning to the moon to make power. Yea I think Ill take the significantly cheaper/smaller/lighter pushrod V8 that only needs to rev to ~6500rpms to make power and doesn't need a rebuild every 20K miles.

Yea its a CarAndDriver interview where when asked about DOHC engines Winegarden says and I quote: " GM's party line is that some customers want what it calls "high-feature engines." " - in other words BS marketing hype.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-gets-its-due/

range96

Weird. $57K to REPAIR an engine on a car that's worth $26K?

Tadge mentioned that to replace the fuel gage sensor on a C7 would run about $4K in labor (remove engine/torque tube/transmission to remove gas tank).

sunsalem

My point wasn't price, it was performance per liter.
I guess we got some Rudy Giulianis around here...

Dominic Sorresso

JD_AMG

The stock engine is already bigger and heavier than an LS7, thats the point.

NY09C6

Dominic Sorresso

JoesC5

How does the weight of the DOHC LT5 compare to the weight of the LSx454 that can handle up to 2500 HP.

sunsalem

golden2husky

Lots of good points on the virtues of both valve trains. However, this is going to be GM's halo car and as such it has to match up to the perception of what is the best type of engine design. If you asked a 100 random people (who had an opinion) of which design represents the most forward thinking, the DOHC would be the design selected by the vast majority of them. Regardless of all the virtues of a cam-in-block design, people perceive them as more pedestrian than a DHOC engine and they would likely point to all the supercars that have chosen to have the cams in the head. They won't recall the fact the OHC design dates back 100 plus years. They will recall that as engines evolved the valve actuation moved to the heads. Will GM put a LT engine in the base model? Probably. And you can guarantee that every magazine story will have half a paragraph explaining why that design was chosen. And most people will perceive the car to be lacking a "proper" motor until the "Cadillac" motor becomes available. And by that point the C8 will be yesterday's news. Like it or not, perception is reality.

Foosh

Sales and performance matter more than perception. Keeping Corvette a budget performer has been the key to its continuing success. You just can't sell many $100K 2-seat sports cars, certainly not more than 10-15K annually, worldwide. GM has been incredibly successful w/ a "halo" car starting at around $60K, regardless of the "elite" looking down their noses at its "inferiority." It's gained far more favorable publicity based upon how much "bang for buck" it delivers.

It would make no sense for GM mgmt to deviate from that successful strategy, but it's always possible. I've seen other corporate mgmt. teams lose their collective minds before, and suffer severe consequences as a result.

bgspot

And whats yours or the articles point??? Truth of the matter is, even though the corvette is a sports car bargain its still a lot of money and most people don't consider spending 50K+ on a car (especially one with only 2 seats) to be practical. So why in the hell are people expecting the younger generation to suddenly/magically hop into a vette. Where i'm at in Shreveport, LA there aren't many young people in vettes let alone a C7. If i drive over to Dallas or Houston I see plenty of young people in the C7 as well as equally or more expensive cars.

For a young person to be driving a vette you need the perfect storm:

1. Need the income
2. Need to not have baggage, i.e. kids, student loan debt, etc.
3. Be into sports cars
4. And if they like sports cars then ACTUALLY like the vette

How the hell does having some particular engine suddenly change any of the above??? Maybe a negligible influence on #4??

JD_AMG

Thats irrelevant.

Never said increasing displacement increases weight, just saying the old LT5 was a big, heavy engine. Still a great engine but Id rather have a smaller, lighter pushrod engine for a sports car. Lower center of gravity, can be mounted lower and closer to the center of the chassis for better weight distribution. Thats what a sports car is all about right? Handling balance and being lightweight? That fits the pushrod V8 perfectly.


Those cars did sound awesome, unfortunately that's all they did, that lump of an engine was MASSIVE and heavy while making mediocre power. Look at the difference between the old 5.0 and the mod motor when stripped down:
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/f...02vs46dohc.jpg

And look at the difference of the LS7 compared to the terminator V8. A little over 400hp with a supercharger and its massive and heavy while the little LS7 is making 500+hp. Which would you rather have in your sports car? A small lightweight V8 that makes more power or a big heavy V8 that makes less power?
https://ls1tech.com/forums/attachmen...3&d=1501791986

Sorry the pushrod V8 wins this one again.

If you ask random people vast majority wouldn't know what a DOHC or pushrod engine is. If you ask the car enthusiast community specifically for V8s, some might say DOHC, but those familiar with the LSx family would say pushrod - look what is now the most commonly swapped engine out there - replacing a TON of DOHC engines. Put those guys that say the like DOHC better in a pushrod LSx car, tell them its DOHC and they wouldn't know the difference - because its irrelevant. What is relevant is real world results, like weight, center of gravity, physical size (being able to mount the engine lower and closer to the center of the car) and the torque curve.

For the base car making ~500hp goal I don't see any advantages in using a DOHC V8 over the LT1. The LT1 will be smaller, lighter (despite the DOHC being smaller displacement, the LSx family is comparable in size to a 4L 1UZ DOHC V8), and cheaper, all of which adding to the result of a better driving sports car. For something like 650+hp and staying NA then sure at that power level a DOHC V8 would be reasonable as it would be tougher making a pushrod engine pass emissions and meet NVH requirements at that kind of power level without going to bigger displacement. But that is at a significantly higher power level and staying NA. Id rather have a lighter TT pushrod V8 for that kind of power.

VETTE-NV

That's crazy money but it doesn't surprise me. A couple years ago I had a 550SL for six months. During that time, it was in the shop 10 times and racked up $22K in repairs.....and these were minor things, not engine or transmission. I sold it before the warranty expired and bought a 2017 GS. I can only imagine what that thing would have cost me if I'd kept it. It was a spectacular car, but a complete POS as far as reliability is concerned.

elegant

JerriVette

Tom73