Unlikely base MEC using “upgraded LT1”
12-27-2018, 08:55 PM
#102
Le Mans Master
Let me ask you, if the pushrod engine is so "bad" and not "world beating" then why do world beating supercars like the Ultima GTR use it, when they could use any other engine they wanted? Its not like that car is built with being cheap in mind, its built strictly for performance driving and lap times, yet it uses the "old tech" pushrod V8. Its almost like the engine has some kind of big advantage like weight and size...oh wait it does.
Why does Saleen use a pushrod engine in their S7 super car?
Why do so many one-off supercars use the LSx and not something like a Coyote instead?
Why does a big tuner like Steve Morris build high powered V8s based off LSx architecture (4000+hp)? Why even waste the time when he could strictly build OHC engines?
If DOHC V8s are so much better why are LSx's the most commonly swapped engine on the market, being swapped into S2000s, 240SXs, Skylines, Supras, WRXs, EVOs, Mustangs, Porsche's (911s and 944s), BMWs, Miatas, 350Zs, and just about any other car out there? Why are they replacing their "high tech" DOHC / turbo engine with some low tech pushrod V8, and why more often than not does the car become lighter, handle better, and always end up being faster? Its not cost, they could easily find a junkyard Mod motor, Northstar or Japanese V8 for pretty cheap. Ill give you a hint, those engines dont fit without major cutting, and they are heavy.
Why isn't it common (or even heard of) to swap DOHC V8s into Corvettes?
Again results are what matters, not bench racing about irrelevant details. If a car is running a low 7 minute Nring time and is put held together with popsickle sticks then clearly the engineers are onto something, despite what others are doing.
Ill take whatever engine gives better results, and thus far its been a pushrod V8.
Why does Saleen use a pushrod engine in their S7 super car?
Why do so many one-off supercars use the LSx and not something like a Coyote instead?
Why does a big tuner like Steve Morris build high powered V8s based off LSx architecture (4000+hp)? Why even waste the time when he could strictly build OHC engines?
If DOHC V8s are so much better why are LSx's the most commonly swapped engine on the market, being swapped into S2000s, 240SXs, Skylines, Supras, WRXs, EVOs, Mustangs, Porsche's (911s and 944s), BMWs, Miatas, 350Zs, and just about any other car out there? Why are they replacing their "high tech" DOHC / turbo engine with some low tech pushrod V8, and why more often than not does the car become lighter, handle better, and always end up being faster? Its not cost, they could easily find a junkyard Mod motor, Northstar or Japanese V8 for pretty cheap. Ill give you a hint, those engines dont fit without major cutting, and they are heavy.
Why isn't it common (or even heard of) to swap DOHC V8s into Corvettes?
Again results are what matters, not bench racing about irrelevant details. If a car is running a low 7 minute Nring time and is put held together with popsickle sticks then clearly the engineers are onto something, despite what others are doing.
Ill take whatever engine gives better results, and thus far its been a pushrod V8.
How about that there’s a ton of parts u can source from millions of trucks and so they’re cheap.
12-27-2018, 08:58 PM
#103
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Shaka (12-28-2018)
12-27-2018, 09:06 PM
#104
12-27-2018, 09:07 PM
#105
Le Mans Master
What makes u say that? IF u are using the word “probably” then it isn’t a known fact, is it? And the FACT that its based on an LS7 block suggests that it could or could be made to fit since of course the V angle is a Chevy standard.
12-27-2018, 09:27 PM
#107
Le Mans Master
If you noticed GM realized it was a boat anchor of a motor and never used it again. The LS on the other hand was a monumental success.
12-27-2018, 09:33 PM
#108
Its over half a foot wider than an LSx engine, I doubt the C6 has that much room to fit it.
12-27-2018, 10:25 PM
#110
Le Mans Master
The sound of that engine does nothing for me. It has no roar. Thankfully the base car will have an LT1 engine, and I will be very happy with that.
Last edited by Michael A; 12-27-2018 at 11:03 PM.
12-27-2018, 11:44 PM
#111
Advanced
Thread Starter
Well, the test mule Mercury Racing used for the sb4 is none other than the mid engine Ultima GTR, a much smaller car than the C8 is projected to be. So yes it would most definitely fit, not that it’s relevemt as the sb4 is no where near emissions compliant. I wonder what kind of hp it would scrub to make it compliant?? Anyone?
12-28-2018, 12:39 AM
#112
Le Mans Master
The bottom line is General Motors is trying to take the mid-engine Corvette C8 to the next level as new generation and why in the world would they put the previous-generation engine in it? To me it's that simple
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12-28-2018, 01:22 AM
#113
I won't point out the obvious reasons for this for fear the thread will sink deeper into B.S.
Different strokes for different folks and all.
12-28-2018, 01:49 AM
#114
Le Mans Master
Look NY and Joe,
You can stomp and jump up and down all u want. You can argue about how great an in block cam, OHV motor the SBC is. And it is a great motor. But just like an FE v ME platform, the physics is against u. People like u are like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. The world is passing u by and u don’t like it. I get that, but its happening anyway.
Too bad, so sad.
12-28-2018, 01:52 AM
#115
Burning Brakes
mar
Christmas facts:
The list of the most Durable auto engines in the world as rated by consumers with the fewest engine problems is absolutely dominated by Dohc engines. I didn’t bother going far enough down the list to find a manufacturer that uses pushrod engines.
The list of the most hp/liter is dominated by dohc engines. Why does this matter? Because the stupid argument that pushrod engines are lighter only works if comparing same displacement.
Some seem to think smaller displacement dohc engines need forced induction to make hp. Um, see Ferrari.
There is A 2004 interview with a GM engineer who claimed that it would cost GM $400 per unit over the price of their pushrod engines to go to dohc. This number did seem of concern though. I’ll look for the interview and post if I can find it.
Merry Christmas!!
The list of the most Durable auto engines in the world as rated by consumers with the fewest engine problems is absolutely dominated by Dohc engines. I didn’t bother going far enough down the list to find a manufacturer that uses pushrod engines.
The list of the most hp/liter is dominated by dohc engines. Why does this matter? Because the stupid argument that pushrod engines are lighter only works if comparing same displacement.
Some seem to think smaller displacement dohc engines need forced induction to make hp. Um, see Ferrari.
There is A 2004 interview with a GM engineer who claimed that it would cost GM $400 per unit over the price of their pushrod engines to go to dohc. This number did seem of concern though. I’ll look for the interview and post if I can find it.
Merry Christmas!!
This is just bullshit. The toughest environment, by far, for any IC engine is the offshore speed boat business. These engines are asked to provide 70-100% continuously for hours. Nearly ALL these engines are either GM or Chrysler derived OHV engines or turbines. DOHC engines break in this environment. Mercury Racing has recently started putting OHC heads on these engines, but the overwhelming majority remain OHV heads.
There are three reasons for this - simplicity (part count), durability and power to weight ratio. Volumetric efficiency (HP/Ltr) really doesn't figure into it. The only reason people seem to think proper sports cars have DOHC head engines is from racing. That however is a direct result of displacement limits in nearly every racing formula - making the HP race all about HP/Ltr. The exception that makes the rule us Can-Am, where there were no limits. "Antiquated" OHV engines of large displacement dominated this series for years until Porsche walked in with a turbo air-cooled OHC engine debuted in the 917/30, one of the greatest race cars of all time. Even that car had a hard tine in the beginning beating the McLaren 8C which had a 8-liter NA Chevy engine making over 800 HP in a chassis weighing kess than 2000#'s. These Can-Am cars would be competitive at the Rolex 24 in Daytona today, if allowed to enter - nearly 50 years after their hey-day !
12-28-2018, 06:09 AM
#116
Melting Slicks
Except for the issue of price - a twin turbo dohc cam V8 is a lot more expensive than an LT1 - $4-6,000 more, and the Corvette market, despite what you read on here is very price sensitive. The current single best selling "model" is a Base 1LT Coupe - that is a $50,000 car (selling price). If we load in the DCT, 4.2TT V8, and all the standard stuff, the base C8 will start at $75k and it will likely price 30-35% of Corvette buyers out of the market.
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JoesC5 (12-28-2018)
12-28-2018, 06:57 AM
#117
Well, the test mule Mercury Racing used for the sb4 is none other than the mid engine Ultima GTR, a much smaller car than the C8 is projected to be. So yes it would most definitely fit, not that it’s relevemt as the sb4 is no where near emissions compliant. I wonder what kind of hp it would scrub to make it compliant?? Anyone?
12-28-2018, 09:57 AM
#118
only bench racers think the corvette ohv powerplants are second teir.....but thanks for your opinion
i especially lime the repair and maintaince bills on youtube of thise finely engineered dohc german powertrains past 50k or 100k miles...
i own a nice italian afla stelvio ti sport tirbo and its a great car so Im not blind to other technology...but calling a corvette second teir shows your obvious intent ..
youll never buy a c8 for a variety of reasons and if you actually do...im sure youll change your tune ..
i look forward to the automotive press having orgasms over the first year c8 comapring it to mclaren 570s...oh wait...the c7 grand sport already matches the stunning mclaren 570 in lap time ...
so the next gen rear mid engine c8 with a dct and possibly 500 hp is not up to your standards...?
so simple...just wait for the twin turbo 5.5 liter v8 as it should have at least 620 ponies...
i think it will hold much of the technology just shown off in the silverados 2.7 liter four that produces 310 hp..
this way gm can satisfy both the normal corvette buyer like me and also cater to high rollers like you that need dohc engines so you can consider yourself first tier,
merry christmas ...we all win with the various engines coming to the c8
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12-28-2018, 01:51 PM
#119
12-28-2018, 03:07 PM
#120
Safety Car
They didn’t use it again because of the development costs for OBDII. Something GM never did again also was to never try to supercede the World Record for Distance and MPH owned by the LT5 using an LSX motor.
Look NY and Joe,
You can stomp and jump up and down all u want. You can argue about how great an in block cam, OHV motor the SBC is. And it is a great motor. But just like an FE v ME platform, the physics is against u. People like u are like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. The world is passing u by and u don’t like it. I get that, but its happening anyway.
Too bad, so sad.