Rkreigh

lsx is a monster and the power to price ratio is absolutely untouchable. the lsx block strength allows enough strength to support high end pro mod cars if you want


but we're talking about emissions compliant CAFE regulated autos.

We can also talk about 1.5 ltr f1 engines making 1100 hp too.

the LS architecture has allowed the pushrod motors to dominate in many venues. cyl head flow, block strength, lightweight valves, and great cyl head flow and tight packaging make for a great receipie

no doubt. Love em. But I also understand benefits of the dohc, that can't be matched out of a pushrod motor

unless you run obscene spring pressures like nascar, or super comp, 11xxx rpms won't work well for long.

With modern technology we may see cams go away completely as Mr Konigsegg has shown with pneumatic valves.

All of these "platforms and applications" have their place.

Like it or not, pushrods are going away, and electric is coming. GM has optimized the pushrod engines to make them truely dominant, but there are limitations that will prevent them going too much further due to regulatory requirements.

so unless the major manufacturers pivot on a dime, I don't see a bright future for pushrod motors, they will go the way of crank up windows and carbs.

Dominic Sorresso

Thanks Ron. We are at an inflecton point in not only Corvettes but for personal transport overall. No one is making the case that DOHC or cam in block are the ideal platform for every application. It depends, and the argument, IMO, is which one fits w the most significant change to the Corvette in its 65 year history. Duntov’s advanced demonstrations of ME usually showed up w a DOHC motor. Absent the use of electronically actuated valves, DOHC offers the manufacturers a simpler means of achieving a highly flexible variable valve timing capability. Critical for idle quality, emissions, and power w economy. The breathing of 2 smaller valves outdoes that of one larger one, plain and simple. The Ferraris, McLarens, and Lambos of the world have outlined what the definition of a world class sports car is. GM will be displaying their “chops” for playing in that arena where “trickle down” actually works.

JD_AMG

i was referring to the LS7... Displacement is not size nor does it represent weight. The LS7 is under 400lbs undressed and physically smaller than most DOHC V6s...

JD_AMG

So am I. LSx(lowercase) is the LS architecture, LSX (uppercase) is the high hp block.
Im asking why so many people are swapping LSx's (LS1s, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7) into their cars (replacing their DOHC engine) if its such an "inferior low tech engine" when other DOHC V8s are available too. No one has answered this yet so I just will: Because the LSx's are lighter, smaller (the DOHC V8s often don't even fit) and make more power and are easier to work on/make power out of.

JD_AMG

You keep saying this yet have nothing to back it up or prove it (and have only proven yourself wrong, over and over), so I ask, please explain why a DOHC V8 with two turbos and the needed intercoolers would be lighter than an NA LT1.

dizwiz24

would like to swap out the lt1, with a ‘93 optispark lt1 stroked to 383 with heads/cam (afr heads for lt1 produce ls3 head flow numbers), longtube headers.

that would be the ticket !

23/C8Z

Pushrod AND ohc will be going the way if the dinosaur.

Look into christian von koenigsegg's tech for opening and closing valves. That's the future.

As for NA for boosted anyone arguing that you wont get better mpgs and power from a small boosted engine is insane. I'm not talkin about towing a trailer down the highway for an hour and a half I'm talking about idling around town and running the mpg Loop for the Fed proving what it can do when you're practically idling around we all know what these little boosted engines can do suck down as much gas as the big ones horsepower is horsepower there's no way around it but it's that resting power consumption that killed NA engine

BEAR-AvHistory

They don't need turbos to match the N/A LT1 both the Mustang & Shelby GT350 5.0 N/A & 5.2 N/A already out produce the 6.2 N/A StingRay engine off the dealers floor.

460HP 6.2L StingRay 480HP 5.0L Mustang 526HP 5.2L GT350. PURE STOCK standing on the dealers floor.

Westech had both the Chevy & Ford on a block & tackle with a scale in the engine test. Engines were ready to run on a dyno by Steve Brulé of Westech Performance & the Chevy was 12 lbs lighter. N/A EPA/CAFE certified California CARB approved the DOHC 5.2L Ford factory fresh N/A delivers 526BHP in the Mustang & the N/A StingRay 460BHP. The cheaper 5.0L version delivers 480HP in the Bullet Mustang for $48,000.

Move to Turbo Charging for a street legal engine you need a turbo & Intercooler or for a Supercharged Chevy requires the supercharger & an intercooler. Its still a wash weight wise in real life as delivered on the street factory certified EPA/CAFE & CARB approved. My twin turbo weighs about 30lbs. Singles are lighter so give it 50lbs for a pair.

Swapped out FMIC was very light but I never weighed it but it was a very easy for me to install by myself. The Edlebrock Roots supercharger like we installed on a BRZ weighs 53lbs don't know what the intercooler weighs.

Apples to apples N/A to N/A & boosted to boosted the DOHC does very well & its 100% legal which they need to be if they want to sell cars in the US.

Times are changing. When I built the COBRA there were just 3 or 4 of us using the DOHC engine & committing major heresy according to the traditionalists. With the new builders that is running near 50%. Most of those not building with DOHC engines want the "traditional" look of the original 65/66 cars.

vetteman41960

Please stop posting in bold lettering. It's very annoying! Maybe you noticed that your the only one posting in this fashion.

Kinda of like how annoying all capital letters are in a post.

Zaro Tundov

I agree. The SBC is the closest engine GM has in smoothness to the BMW's I6, and of course the LT1 is more reliable than the ATS-V's LF4, more responsive, and has a flatter torque curve. GM's specialty is small block V8s yet the bozo manager wanted to copy BMW's I6 turbo by slapping turbos on a V6, lol. It's so stupid it hurts my brain.

Still, you've got to give credit to GM's board. Everyone knows that DC lobbyists are just the sort of gearheads you need to turn around a beleaguered company like Cadillac.


Why the ATS-V has a coarse and unrefined V6TT

Darion

Thank you, so right. Lol

PC

BEAR-AvHistory

Am really sorry you guys got all annoyed, but try to do better in the future.

Tom73

I’m sure this is nothing new but was looking at some of the cad drawings and ran across these engine drawing that I had not seen before:

BEAR-AvHistory

If they wanted to copy the Germans they should have made a 16T not a V6T. Even MB is stepping back from the V6 & returning to the I6 for non V8 applications in mid level performance packages with a new for 2019 3.0L DOHC I6 with 429 horsepower at 6100 rpm and 384 lb-ft of torque at 1800 revs in the version of the engine used in the AMG 53 models. The I6 tends to be a very smooth running engine.

V8 would have been a better choice for the ATS-V its an American car.

Warp Factor

An LT turbo would be fun. Maybe they're saving that for a future ZR1 model.

Dominic Sorresso

Doubtful.

BEAR-AvHistory

FWIW on current engine design. Just got a buy me heads-up, which I have no intention to do, info email. The 2020 BMW 3/4 series SUV's optional I6TT DOHC performance & competition engines are 3.0L (183CI) @ 473 hp and 442 lb-ft of torque top speed of 174 mph. The 503 hp upgrade, a top speed of 177 mph.

503BHP in a 3 liter 6 cylinder SUV, think what a 5.0 or 5.5 liter V8 can do in a C8 sports car.

mjdart

I've been reading this post through and I had a few points to consider.

1. The Blackwing being assembled in the PBC leads me to believe it has a very good chance of being used in the C8, but maybe not as the base engine,
1a. Engineering and cost for two different means of mounting the engine(s) in the chassis. If cost prohibitive they'll go with on similar engine like the C7 currently uses. LT1, LT4 & LT5.
1b Will the transmission mount up correctly with a Blackwing and a LT1 block and allow ease of assembly?

2. What are the market goals GM and Corvette have in mind for the Mid-Engine C8? An engine like the BW has the wow factor for upscale buyers. I'm sure it's much more expensive to produce that the current Corvette engines.
I think the 500 hp BW could be the base engine with a further tweaked Blackwing could be for upscale models. Look at what other manufacturers as doing with 500-600 hp, the cars are very agile and fast. Remember this C8 will not need the huge HP as the LT4 or LT5 provide.
The C8 traction improvements and balance should allow it to outperform current Corvette C7 models. I currently have a really nice C7 Z06 which provides unbelievable handling and acceleration which is very comparable to sports cars costing many times more, but GM may be looking to provide the upscale experience for sports car journalists and shoppers while providing an apples to apples comparison. If the cars have similar looks, technology, and performance and Corvette prices it much less, I believe they will have achieved their goal. As Bob Lutz and others have said and I believe GM can produce a Mid Engine Corvette for not a lot more that the current C7. Not shutting out the base buyers and the volume in sales they provide will allow Corvette to provide upscale models that may strip fringe sales from the other supercars. The loyal base of those cars will never switch, but there are a large number of buyers, who only buy what's popular or what's seen as the in car, I want to see Corvette compete for those buyers while giving existing owners a place to continue in the Corvette family.

We have an event in South Florida that I always attend, called Supercar Saturday. This event many times draws hundreds of high end sports cars. You can walk amongst the owners (many are very young) and see the whole synergy in action. My Z06 is very sharp, but I usually never bring it because to the Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, Mercedes, owners attending, it's just another Corvette, I bring my C2 Sting Ray Coupe, which the Supercar show owner parks upfront with other vintage supercars, here the Corvette gets the respect it deserves.

Last spring I attended an event in South Miami called Corvettes and Coffee, over 100 Corvettes showed up, I saw that over 60% of the owners were under 35 years old, Corvette Marketing needs to attend these events, young buyers with real disposable income, prime buyers for a C8 ME Car.

https://www.lamborghinibroward.com/s...-saturdays.htm

Listen to regular guys who buy supercars and see the market a well done C8 could court.


The event is just off I-75 and Griffin Road at the Lamborghini Dealer. If you live or are vacationing here, this is a sight not to miss. Several months ago we were leaving the show and I got caught in between a Koenigsegg and a Bugatti Chiron in my stock 365hp Sting Ray, the Davie Police waved us through the intersection and we accelerated onto I-75, talk about fun, that's why I take vacation day to attend if I'm working.

JerryU

If they were to have 2 engines (hope not) you just tell Tremic we want two transaxle inputs that bolt up to ABC Old Tech and XYZ Hi Tech engines! There was a simple 1/2 inch thick aluminum adapter that bolted the Olds engine to the my 1941 Ford trans in 1959!

Wow is what the current Alfa Giulia 4 door sedan now has and will have a bigger WOW shortly! You can currently order the 2.9 Liter twin turbo, 4 valve/cylinder, double overhead cam V6 with 505 hp. It was announced it will soon also have an extra 144 F1 type electric KERS for a total of 641 hp! KERS also recovers some of the wasted braking energy to charge a small battery. No need for Solar cells so you can drive when raining for a few days!

Currently gasoline engine powered cars get ~15% of the energy in gasoline to reach to the rear wheels. On average 1/3 of that goes back to heat when braking (like the exhaust and energy to the coolant also when idling.) Big waste. Hope we get better before Mary Barra with help from AOC have only EV's for sale!

Heck, "WOW" is what you'll say when you get beat from a light by a 4 door sedan that starts at $38,000! Albit the higher hp engine costs significantly more and KERS will add to that!

Just Sayn'

Foosh

Jerry, old buddy, please stop mentioning the Guilia Quadrifoglio. I've had the hots for one every since I laid eyes on, and made the mistake of driving, it. It's pure "hotness," but I'm trying hard not to buy one.