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Whats the difference to you if the C8 comes with a ~550hp NA pushrod V8 or a ~550hp NA DOHC V8? Answer or leave thread.
I haven't seen that Bear is capable of accepting defeat. It's more like he has sacrificed his analytical thinking skills to something bordering on occult belief. Could also be that something along the lines of "Stockholm Syndrome" has veered him seriously off track.
So, its a bad car somehow because women also like it? I think a few guys on this forum need to get over thinking cars somehow making them more manly. Maybe that should be read as the Camaro is a car far fewer people like because it is simply not as good overall?
Im not talking about LeMans, Im talking about laptimes for the production cars. Corvette beats damn near everything under $500K, while the Camaro beats the Mustang, and BMW M3/4.
Ok, poll 100 Corvette buyers, I bet even fewer could make commentary on Corvette lap times than naming Corvette racers.
Someone looking to buy a 2 seat sports car probably isn't cross shopping sedans or Mustangs... The Corvette competes directly with the Boxster and Cayman in sales, beats those and every other two seater out there.
...
Read carefully: The whole car market is down while SUV/CUV sales are up.
Someone shopping a two seat sports car probably isn't cross shopping a SUV either. The trends from cars towards utility vehicles isn't really affecting two seat sports car.
Right so why go to DOHC then?
I'm not arguing that at all, I've always argued that the power output and sizing is far more important than internal architecture
My Grand Sport will only be 2 years old next month. Still giving GM time to do the “right thing”.
Why did you buy your C7 over a Porsche or other car?
Why give the C7 a chance with a pushrod engine but not the C8, whats the difference this time around?
Yep Chevy, If doesn’t have a modern engine in the C8 or one coming quickly (which I doubt) may just get a Porsche! Wife had a Cayenne, just too bad the closest dealer is over an hour away.
What difference does it make whether its DOHC or pushrod, give me a clear black and white answer and don't dodge this one or beat around the bush.
Many of us have given you the answer. Did enough technical trading for field engineers and fabricators in my early career to know with some folks you just end with “yep the arc is over 10,000 degrees and that is what caused the metal to melt”-NOT!
Literally no one has given any answers, including yourself just now - you totally deflected the question. Ive asked again above, please answer im genuinely curious. What difference does it make if its a pushrod V8 making X power or a DOHC V8 making X power?
Ok, poll 100 Corvette buyers, I bet even fewer could make commentary on Corvette lap times than naming Corvette racers.
Ok, your right, the performance of a Corvette doesn't matter, GM needs to switch to FWD and a 100hp 4 cylinder to save cost since no Corvette owner cares about the cars performance.
Are you really this dense!? Im not talking about people citing specific times for specific tracks, Im talking about "Car A" beats "Car B" around the track, "Car A" then has a better image and more chatter about it because its the better performer. The Corvette beats its rivals around numerous race tracks, that is how sports cars prove they are worthy of being a "sports car". Every time CarAndDriver has their lightning lap challenge numerous car forums of all makes blow up with massive discussions about the results.
Nurburgring laptimes are time and time again the benchmark for "how good" a sports cars is, same with the TopGear track.
Why did you buy your Corvette? Why did you buy a 2 seat sports car over something else?
Someone shopping a two seat sports car probably isn't cross shopping a SUV either. The trends from cars towards utility vehicles isn't really affecting two seat sports car.
Someone with a 2 seat sports car might have their wife tell them its family time and to sell the car for something more practical for the kids to ride in.
Ok, your right, the performance of a Corvette doesn't matter, GM needs to switch to FWD and a 100hp 4 cylinder to save cost since no Corvette owner cares about the cars performance.
Are you really this dense!? Im not talking about people citing specific times for specific tracks, Im talking about "Car A" beats "Car B" around the track, "Car A" then has a better image and more chatter about it because its the better performer. The Corvette beats its rivals around numerous race tracks, that is how sports cars prove they are worthy of being a "sports car". Every time CarAndDriver has their lightning lap challenge numerous car forums of all makes blow up with massive discussions about the results.
Nurburgring laptimes are time and time again the benchmark for "how good" a sports cars is, same with the TopGear track.
Why did you buy your Corvette? Why did you buy a 2 seat sports car over something else?
Someone with a 2 seat sports car might have their wife tell them its family time and to sell the car for something more practical for the kids to ride in.
Lap times and performance for many buyers are two different topics all together. Most couldnt tell you a lap time to save their life, but they know that Corvettes are outstanding performance cars from reputation.
The other point is that the 911 would not likely exist today without Cayenne and Macan sales. Porsche has been near death at least three times since the introduction of the 911 in the early 1960's. Chevy had not, although the financial crisis almost sunk the entire US car industry. The point is, however, that the Corvette has been consistently profitable since the C2. Second guessing the Corvette team on the C8 features or design choices is a fool's errand. They have a great track record, and I have every confidence that the C8 will be a great car, whether it has an LT1, a Blackwing or a new DOHC V-8.
Don't agree the Corvette was always making money, for example for the last 3 or 4 years of the C6 run. Just read what Tadge said in February 2013.
I do recall one time when Porsche was almost going out of business! Details below:
SIDE BAR
Porsche introduced the 928 (1977-1995) because they were losing money on the 911! I thought that new car with 50/50 weight distribution looked great. Had a product manager who drove one. It was front engine but had an overhead cam engine and ended with 5.4 Liters, 4 valves per cylinder and 350 hp, "even back then!"
However the US primarily wanted their old rear engine, air cooled 911! Porsche changed Presidents and if I recall currently the new one came from the US. He was determined to satisfy the US demand and they hired Toyota Manufacturing Consulates to design a new manufacturing system to build essentially the 911. Instead of mostly old German hand craftsmanship and parts going up and down floors they designed a much more efficient flow etc.
I recall when the "new 911" came out (at a significantly higher price) Porsche talked about improved front/rear weight ratio and the Titanium parts added to the rear that made that happen. However it was either Car & Driver or Road & Track that caught the real reason. They had added weight to the front bumper! Not good for polar moment of inertia!
Don't get me wrong Porsche has done a great engineering job making an inferior engine position into a great handling car! Dr. Porsche, who worked with the ME German F1 cars of the 1930's knew that was the right place for an engine. In fact, his first 356 in 1948 was a mid engine but proved to expensive for the German Economy at that time so he reverted to more VW parts and it wound up being a rear engine take-off from a VW for production.
Oh my gosh, perhaps Chevy will face that when they introduce the double overhead cam, twin turbo engine in the C8! All those "It has to be a big cid pushrod engine folks!" Well a number with Corvettes folks may not care as they have never seen the inside of an engine! Reminded of the fellow having his new 911 serviced when I was in the waiting room with the wife's Cayenne being sercied. He did not know that his car was water cooled! Not sure he actually knew the difference between air and water cooling anyway. Guess the world is better with Not Everyone being a gearhead!
Ok, your right, the performance of a Corvette doesn't matter, GM needs to switch to FWD and a 100hp 4 cylinder to save cost since no Corvette owner cares about the cars performance.
Are you really this dense!?
No, I'm not that dense. I understand perfectly that the bulk of any sporty car sales will never see a track, will never be driven in any performance manner. If you want to toss out some ridiculous example, if the Corvette ran a second a lap slower on every track than a Mustang, I doubt most would know or care.
Nurburgring laptimes are time and time again the benchmark for "how good" a sports cars is, same with the TopGear track.
Again, go sit in a Chevy dealer and ask the next 100 Corvette buyers about the Nurburgring or Top Gear. I doubt the bulk would have any clue what you're talking about. Gearheads do not drive pretty much any car sales, or we'd have piles of options for a stripped down feature free car and scant few autos.
Theres a big difference between caring about a HP number and being able to spin the tires and feel the car push you back in the seat, and looking at a full performance validation of the car.
Why did you buy your Corvette? Why did you buy a 2 seat sports car over something else?
I've made no attempt to hide the fact I cross shopped the Corvette with many cars. I was looking for something RWD that was decently class competitive in AutoX, and the deal I found on the Corvette was the best available (hence why it is also an auto). It very easily could have been a different car. That, and they largely were parked all winter and not rusted, compared to similar priced and vintage Mustangs and Miatas.
Someone with a 2 seat sports car might have their wife tell them its family time and to sell the car for something more practical for the kids to ride in.
They may well do so, but thats not the trend right now. The trend is shunning sedan based daily drivers for SUV based dailys.
[QUOTE=Warp Factor;1598893923]What would be a "modern" engine? Something like this?
[/QUOTE
Don't need 16 cylinders! My neighbor just bought a power blue Bentley for his wife for her birthday! It's W12 is "interesting" as it makes a sort length engine and only requires two cylinder heads. The W8 version is really compact! Neither is needed for the C8!
One similar to the Ford GT, double overhead valve, 4 valve per cylinder, twin turbo 3.5 Liter V6 would be fine! And GM marketing folks are smarter, instead of the Ford GT 647 hp they would have engineering make another dyno run and find 3 more horses!
For the base C8, easily detuned with cam lift, duration and timing etc to get max mpg although less hp. For lower cost use smaller turbos & intercoolers, cast versus forged pistons, power metallurgy versus forged rods, stainless versus titanium valves etc etc!
Don't need 16 cylinders! My neighbor just bought a power blue Bentley for his wife for her birthday! It's W12 is "interesting" as it makes a sort length engine and only requires two cylinder heads. The W8 version is really compact!
The 16 cylinder version is in the Bugatti Veyron, isn't it? Interesting piece of engineering by the Volkswagen group. I wonder what sort of tortured mind came up with this?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 02-17-2019 at 11:17 AM.
^^^
It's much like the V6 in my old S-10. Two rods are on one crack throw as in a normal V8, V12 but in the W engines the are ground offset to have the timing work. The Chevy V6 was made by chopping two cylinders (figuratively) from a small block V8. Since the V angle is the same as the V8, to get equally spaced cylinder firing they did the same kind of offset on the crank throw.
There are odd firing V6's made that way but they sound funny and power is not delivered as smoothly.
Pic is from a W12, just need to add two more crank throws for the W16!
Thanks, I've got a weird little vintage motorcycle that is a 1953 175cc puch, has two cylinders that share one connecting rod when I saw those overlapping cylinders I thought it might be something crazy like that, but this is more like the VW VR6.
It is a gorgeous car, even more so in person. That Rosso Competizione tint coat is miles deep.
fwiw worth i orefer the bright alfa red thats a no cost feature. Im not a fan of the tint coat red so many are coming out with.
its great as an option for those that prefer it.
same goes for the motors. Iprefer a simple stout light compact relatively inexpensive and durable LT1 derived powerplant making over 500 hp would be all that most of us would want. For those that want to spend more money for dohc twin turbo motors more power to you. Im glad that those options will exist as an optional powerplant.
thats where gm can upcharge to give you guys that want that exclusivity you desire...
500 plus hp in the standard rear mid engine corvette c8 with a z51 heavy duty cooling and suspension package, dct, mrc, npp and fals works just fine for many of us...
we can all get to choose what we want ...
thats how corvette stays at the top of the sales charts as well as all the comparisions over the decades..
sounds like a win win for all of us!
Last edited by JerriVette; 02-17-2019 at 05:25 PM.
Whats the difference to you if the C8 comes with a ~550hp NA pushrod V8 or a ~550hp NA DOHC V8? Answer or leave thread.
The DOHC engine will weigh more, have a higher center of gravity, add cost to the car, be more difficult/costly to modify and produce less low end torque (because it will be smaller in ci). So it would far less desirable from almost every aspect except fuel economy.
Lap times and performance for many buyers are two different topics all together. Most couldnt tell you a lap time to save their life, but they know that Corvettes are outstanding performance cars from reputation.
PC
And that reputation comes from setting good laps and beating the competitors (like the 911) around the track.
Originally Posted by jefnvk
No, I'm not that dense. I understand perfectly that the bulk of any sporty car sales will never see a track, will never be driven in any performance manner. If you want to toss out some ridiculous example, if the Corvette ran a second a lap slower on every track than a Mustang, I doubt most would know or care.
If the Corvette was slower around the track than a Mustang GT then the vette would end up getting a bad reputation.
Again, go sit in a Chevy dealer and ask the next 100 Corvette buyers about the Nurburgring or Top Gear. I doubt the bulk would have any clue what you're talking about.
Theres a big difference between caring about a HP number and being able to spin the tires and feel the car push you back in the seat, and looking at a full performance validation of the car.
So are you telling me GM and other companies are just throwing their money and time away spending their time testing and tuning their car on race tracks, like the Nurburgring for example? GM even built a mini Nurbugring in their backyard for testing so they don't have to constantly transport their cars overseas to test. Should they just forget about making the cars handle well, focusing on chassis and steering feel and driving dynamics then? If you say "no" then what was the point about trying to tell me all this?
Gearheads do not drive pretty much any car sales, or we'd have piles of options for a stripped down feature free car and scant few autos.
You're confusing gear heads with hardcore track guys. There are plenty of gear heads that want a track capable car but also some luxuries with it. Or especially a married guy who's wife wouldn't enjoy a stripped out track car so he compromises with a track capable car that still is very street friendly (kinda like a Corvette...hmmm...)
I've made no attempt to hide the fact I cross shopped the Corvette with many cars. I was looking for something RWD that was decently class competitive in AutoX, and the deal I found on the Corvette was the best available (hence why it is also an auto). It very easily could have been a different car. That, and they largely were parked all winter and not rusted, compared to similar priced and vintage Mustangs and Miatas.
Ironic, after all that you are shopping for a track capable car where laptimes (or rather capability) matter. And if the Corvette wasn't as good as it is you wouldn't have bought it.
Originally Posted by NY09C6
The DOHC engine will weigh more, have a higher center of gravity, add cost to the car, be more difficult/costly to modify and produce less low end torque (because it will be smaller in ci). So it would far less desirable from almost every aspect except fuel economy.
Bingo, and with more weight added to the car it hurts all aspects of performance.
That will be the case with the new car and most owners still wont know what lap time a ME sets most anywhere.
If you mean that most won't have the statistics memorized, that may be true. Many sports fans won't have team or individual player statistics memorized either, but will know who's been doing well, and that will matter to them.
02-16-2019, 01:11 PM
That was way out of the box!
