C7pimp

Thread deleted.

Who posted the thread?

BEAR-AvHistory

Lot like Buick. GM's second biggest brand & its biggest in China. Don't know the '18 numbers but '17 looked like 1.4 million units. China dominates Buick sales the U.S. was only 219,231 units in 2017. So you are looking at 1.2 million cars being sold elsewhere.

jefnvk

Because the point everyone that thinks this way is missing? Supercar owners don't own cars strictly on performance, but rather on the fact they are luxury goods that display wealth. The ZR1 already beats a handful of supercars in power at a much lower budget, people simply don't want it. Why? Because at the end of the day, Chevy simply doesn't have the prestige and cache (or fit and finish) that McLaren or Ferrari has. Dodge wasn't stealing supercar owners with the Demon, despite it being the only production car this side of a million bucks in the 800HP range.

Until you get into the silly Konigsegg/Bugatti multi-million dollar car HP wars, raw HP numbers aren't even that big of a deal to such owners. The complete car is far more important than 0-60, which is still a very American thing. Not to mention, Konigsegg and Bugatti are already within spitting distance of 1500hp, you wouldn't even really be first.

As far as performance, look at racing sports cars if you don't believe raw power doesn't matter as much. Most of them aren't besting 600hp even in the top classes. Spectators driving Corvettes to IMSA races or Camaros to NASCAR races now have more power under their hood than the race car variants do, but the road versions certainly aren't more capable machines.

Which goes to what I was saying above. People want the Corvette to be something it is objectively not. It has always been a car in the range of most of the population that punches well above its weight, and those cost savings come from the fact it is not, and never has been, a luxury vehicle. It is never going to be seen as a competitor to a supercar on anything but a track/performance level, and the number of people buying solely on that criteria are minimal.

As far as it having a smaller motor for China, yes, that matters a lot to anyone who wants to do business in China. There is indeed a burgeoning middle class in China that opens a LARGE market to automakers. Just because the millionaires have the cash to buy Ferraris, does not mean the working class does. Car makers not named Ferrari make far more money off their base, bread and butter, models than their halo cars.

And personally, I still think if folks want to keep the C7 alive, you should cheapen up the interior, toss a hot turbo I4 in it, and price it in the mid-high $20s to compete with the BRZ and Miata and get younger folks on the ownership ladder.

Mikec7z

the way the chinese laws work, last time i checked, a car has to be built in china to not be taxed to death...

and once the car IS built in china, china has free reign to copy ANY and ALL ideas and technology and build their own, without negative consequence.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2008/12/19/b...nese-x5-clone/

So GM has no intention of making a corvette in china. Thus it having a smaller engine cylinder count is pointless.

GM is okay if china copies the buick and its technology... its a sacrifice they are willing to make.

And as far as the 1500hp vette goes, all GM would have to do is step up the interior another couple notches, and it would be game over.

People want a warranty on the cars. Ferrari, buggatti mclaren... they have dealers in china... so does GM. A Hennessey Vette has no warranty in china. A 1500hp vette from GM does have a warranty in china.

Warp Factor

The "biggest dog" in Chinese politics, and the most powerful person in the nation started driving a Buick about ten years ago. Since then, Buicks have been very popular in China. Go figure.

Mikec7z

Those images were of the 2020 build and order sheets for the c7 warp

Warp Factor

There's more information and discussion of that thread, and speculation on why it was deleted, here:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...54556-wow.html

My guess is that it was an accurate leak, since it disappeared so quickly. Wild speculation and inaccurate information threads seem to have a long life.

Mikec7z

right, because they dont want to mess up c7 sales for the next 45 days before the new c7 2020 is released.

Someone at GM will be fired for this one, its going to cost the company over a million dollars, no question.

This is why i did not give up my friends name or position who told me last sunday that the c7 would be in 2020 and be different than the c7s prior.

Warp Factor

I can't rule that out. The DCT and the LT2 suggest that it's a new car though. However, the the LT2 doesn't show on the order sheet. The DCT does.

Hard to figure that GM would produce a DCT for a mid-engine C8, and another of very different configuration for a front-engine C7 (since high-volume of a part is what keeps the price down), unless GM is planning on producing both for a while

Dpriceslc

Yes, the LT2 does show on the order sheet.

Warp Factor

Oh, you're right. My mistake.

JoesC5

The same DCT transaxle can be used for a front engine and a mid engine car. On the front engine Corvette, just lengthen the torque tube/prop shaft as the transmission would be mounted behind the differential, as in the mid engine, instead of in front of the differential as in the current C5/C6/C7.

It would take a new design exhaust system as the location of the mufflers in the C7 is where the DCT transmission would be mounted. That is minor, but would require a new rear fascia as the exhaust outlets would need to be located at the edges instead of in the middle of the rear bumper. Needs a new design rear fascia anyways.

This is the AMG Gt with it's front engine, torque tube and DCT, with the transmission behind the differential. On the mid engine, the engine would just be relocated behind the driver and bolted directly to the DCT without a torque tube.

GrandSport 2017

Mikec7z

you are ignoring the obvious, they already produced the transmissions, and/or the tooling and assembly line and factory workers are all ready to produce them... but the c8 was late to the party... so they can either shut down their transmission plant, or if its outsourced, they can sit on 20,000 transmissions that they already paid for, sit on those for the next year and let them rot...

or they can make a bunch of money from releasing a c7 to people who think the dct is god's other forgotten son, and think it is going to make the vette that much better, and run out and buy one since the miracle has finally occurred.

The goal is to make money, not make pretty cars for a few years, and lose money and go out of business

PCMIII

The DCT will make the C7 faster accelerating if it is half as good as the PDK. Should improve fuel economy too. Plus, GM needs real world testing before it goes into the ME.

JD_AMG

Whoa, I think you missed my point completely and took something that wasn't there and ran with it.
All I was saying was that those companies have switched to a 2L I4 turbo engine to give them a tax advantage when selling in China. And it would be silly for them to build an engine specifically for China so they mass produced them and use them everywhere as well.
I was in no way, shape or form saying the Corvette should downsize in displacement and in fact I've been saying the opposite thing this whole time. I never said or implied anything about the Corvette selling in China or how GM would/should approach that.

Couldn't agree more. With something that is a limited production car like a Corvette compared to something like a Chevy Cruize or whatever, the tax on the car wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal. However with some mass produced cheap car like a cruize they would want as much of a price (tax) advantage as possible so downsizing the engine would be an easy way to do that.

Couldn't agree more, Ive been saying the whole time the #1 thing GM needs to do with the Corvette is improve the overall fit and finish and the interior.

JD_AMG

And with all these travels and all this experience you didn't notice once that these smaller displacement engine that get better fuel economy are also making less power than the larger displaced counterpart?

A 500hp 2L I4 turbo is going to get gas mileage like a ~500hp engine would, regardless of displacement, and not get gas mileage like a 180hp 2L I4 would, do you see my point? Displacement is a small factor.

Kinda sounds like your words when you purposly leave out:
"as well as more stringent government regulations." i.e. displacement tax

Stop with the turbo talk, you can put a turbo on a larger displacement engine, this is not limited to having small displacement.

Anyone trying for the best gas mileage drives that way, its not by any means "unreasonable" when you are driving any other car very lightly to get the best gas mileage as well. You heavy foot any performance car and gas mileage will drop significantly, this is not limited to the Corvette. And once again since the Corvette is using a proper engine its able to actually operate like that in the low RPMs and not bog and sputter like some of the gutless smaller displaced performance engine (that get worse gas mileage as well). Go drive any other ~460hp car like you do your Corvette and the gas mileage will be similar.

Yea because displacement tax(even if it was replaced a few years back) has forced so many manufacturers to build smaller displaced engines, those cars arn't going to all of a sudden disappear. Again those small displaced engine are making ~80hp - 150hp in small lightweight hatchback cars, and they will get gas mileage like a 80-150hp car. Take those same engines and modify them to make more than double the power they are making now while keeping the displacement the same and what do you think will happen to the gas mileage?

At this point you just like typing mindless things and copy/paste quotes over and over without actually understanding what they are saying. Still waiting for you to answer my questions too, like you dodged the Corvette 500hp LT1 vs BW questions again. Why are you not able to give me an answer?

JD_AMG

I agree with what you are saying here 100%, however the race cars you speak of are making that kind of power because they are restricted by the rules to do so, not because they don't want any more power. That is not to say there is no such thing as "too much power" but using restricted race cars isn't a great example.


This would be a 1 way trip to killing the Corvette image immediately. GM has the I4 turbo Camaro that performs and handles tremendously well in that price bracket. If anything they would need to build a much smaller two seater (like the pontiac solstice size) with an actual good interior and good build quality to compete.
Throwing an I4 in the Corvette and making the interior even cheaper is just about the worst possible thing you could do. One of everyone biggest gripes with the car already is the interior not being the greatest and one of the biggest redeeming factors of the car is the engine is so fantastic. I don't think Ive read a single review for the Corvette (or any Corvette since the C5 at least) that said anything bad about the engine and in fact reviewers are always saying the engine should be put into more cars (like the ATS-V for example).

Darion

I have said it a few times, air, fuel, spark, air out. I know it's an oversimplification but making 500 hp takes a bunch of those no matter a 4 cyl, v8, turbo or SC. I had read a comment something like "well nobody uses 500hp anyway" which is ridiculous. The implication is drive it easy and it's a fuel sipping 4 cyl, I would say every time I'm out I find a few opportunities to drive it like a sports car! Also, where are the factory 750 hp 4 cyl?

Warp Factor

Unlikely, since most places these days use "just in time" production and delivery, and payment is made upon delivery. Parts don't really get stockpiled any more.
Putting that transmission in a C7 wouldn't be real-word testing for the C8, since the C7 puts much lower torque loads on the transmission due to having less traction