skank

To clear some of this up, Tadge only said that they didn't have a DCT that handled the torque loads of the three LT1,LT4, and LT5 engines in the space that the C7 chassis allowed. The fact that the C7 had separate transmissions and differential vs a DCT transaxle that have both trans and diff in the same case. ZF already has a DCT transaxle and a manual transmission in the same exact case that can handle the torque load of the LT line of engines. Using Tremec to design a new DCT transaxle that will fit in both C7 FE or C8 chassis is the question. Or they could just use the new ZF unit.

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29131.html

https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/products_29326.html

Mikec7z

agreed. Your points on tadges perspective are spot on

IF GM was going to continue a FE car, then eventually they would most likely go to coil overs and also put a DCT in the car, so that all the components are the same across the board between the 2 cars.

I have believed for the past couple years that such an FE will come AFTER a brief pause in production of the c7s, and the new FE would be a bit of a surprise.

However, it would not hurt anything in the long haul to start playing with the DCT and coil overs in the c7, if they were going to do a FE c8, but i dont believe they will do this.

Once i realized the build sheets had the coil over due to the front lift system, thats when i lost hope that those sheets were c7 build sheets.

I think the c8 delays are screwing up everything. I think the c8 fe was supposed to be launched in the next 12 months, and the c8me was already supposed to be launched by this summer, on sale at dealers.

PCMIII

You are correct. The ME launch delay has caused the C7.5 to launch first. Since the C7.5 is a refresh instead of all new, we might still see it at the NYC auto show in addition to the Bash. Corvette is just quietly revealing it so as not to steal the thunder of the ME.

The build sheets are clearly for the C7.5 which is nearly production ready. Should be an interesting car with coil overs, DCT and LT2 @ 500HP.

Mikec7z

ill put it this way, i HOPE you are right.

I changed my opinion to the specs being for the C8me when i took my hope out of the equation and just attacked things logically.

I will say this, IF there is a dct put into a c7, then i would bet my life savings on there being a c8fe, because putting the dct into the c7 only makes logical financial sense for GM IF the c8fe IS absolutely going to happen.

I believe the c8fe will happen, but a dct in a c7 would be the nail in the coffin for those who think otherwise, IMO.

My confidence in a c8fe would be un-waiverable at that point.

Foosh

The only thing that makes logical financial sense for GM? It's certainly NOT the only thing that makes logical financial sense for GM. The more parsimonious and more logical explanation is one ME platform w/ 3-4 price and performance brackets and 40K or more (if it's a hit) annual production on an identical platform. That's what GM has always done, and it's always been financially successful and most cost-effective. The simplest explanation is usually always the best one.

However, as I've repeatedly said in all these threads, GM and other manufacturers have made some bone-headed decisions in the past, and it's possible a bone-headed strategy will be selected in this case, just not likely.

PCMIII

The ME is not production ready so what is Corvette going to do for the next 6 months? Try to sell the remaining 2019s and virtually close BGA?

You seriously think GM -- one of the most conservative car makers -- is going to roll the dice on an unproven design that is completely different from what it has built for decades?

What if the ME fails in the marketplace? Then what?

BEAR-AvHistory

Unfortunately given the shape of things to come the Corvette as we know it will be as dead as Oldsmobile & Pontiac,

Foosh

What if the C5 wasn't a hit, then what? What if the C6 wasn't a hit, then what? What if the C7 wasn't a hit, then what? An ME priced from roughly $70-150K with better performance than its predecessor is on safe ground and not risky. Anyone who has followed the various gen changes on Corvettes knows well of the dire predictions of failure and fatal flaws with every generation change from the sky is falling crowd.

No one here has any idea how close the ME is to being ready, but there are some amateurs here who think there will be a long delay. Maybe there will be, probably not, but there's no credible evidence of a revamped C7 in the pipeline.

Warp Factor

Who knows? Even if most people are willing to jump off a cliff, just because "everybody's doing it", the Corvette may be a holdout, and even trounce the supposedly much more "modern" and expensive competition, as it has already.

JerryU

Wonder what keeps Mary Barra up at night, 25,000 Corvettes or the 585,000 profiable Silverado’s they sold last year!

I still think making a “new” C7 type FE is stupid! Not saying they won’t do It! IMO the delay is so they are not embarrassed introducing the car with only and old pushrod engine. Suspect they will introduce the “Grand Sport” version (or whatever they call it) that includes the Andy Pilgrim ”leaked” (by GM design) to tell us you need that room up front for an electric motor/generator to drive the front wheels. If would also recover some of the wasted braking energy. At launch may be a “coming soon” but need to show one. There can be a number of variants of the ME and easy to make on the same assembly line.

I’ll take mine with wider wheels/tires and bigger brakes than the anemic ones shown for the base car!

Warp Factor

LOL, that "old pushrod" engine is one of the most advanced engines on the planet.

Mikec7z

Most ferrari and mclaren have thin front wheels, there is no need to go super wide as the engine is no longer on top of them and it is easy to rotate the car on its polar axis with the engine behind the seats, since the front end becomes so light.

thinner wheels are lighter wheels, they are also affected much less by uneven road surfaces, vs the wider wheels.

I think they are proportional for what needs to be done.

JerryU

But so is a Porsche with the engine in the wrong place for the “Modern World.” Like Chevy’s done a great job getting performance from the small block, Porsche has done a great job of making a rear heavy, sports car handle with the best. When I saw the two mid engine racing 911’s being built at the USA Porsche Team in Rock Hill SC at a joint SAE/ASME meeting knew they understood what was needed!

I’m sure Porsche has their “no rear engine” no Porsche folks. Reminded of the fellow having his new 911 serviced when I had the wife’s Cayenne in for an oil change. He had no idea it wasn’t air cooled. I did not tell him there was no Santa Clause!

JerryU

Understand. But I have this thing about needing wide tiers (I liked the '56 Caddy "Front Bumper" as well!) Probably started with the skinny tires I had in my 1st car a '41 Ford Coupe I stuffed in an Olds engine! Like the song, "It got rubber in all 3 gears! (It was 3 in my case not 4!) Not what I wanted to beat my buddies; had to slip the clutch off the line. I was not happy with my 2014 Z51 tires and the Grand Sports are better- but still traction limited with ~460 hp. Granted more weight in the rear and you don't need as large a tire. BUT my Street Rod has 53% of it's ~3000 lbs in the rear and more that 2500 rpm off the line and even that adjustable 4 bar link suspension won't stop tire spinning (or worse one spins and you make a very fast turn!

Heck the wife has 315 section width tires that came standard on her 2018 BMW X5! My street rod still chuckles when I pull in with the Vette. But at least it's not a belly laugh as with the 2014 Z51 Bet the Grand Sport version of the C8 will have wider rear tires. 305's? Not for mine! But I can wait! Unlike my 2014 Z51 I put money down in Feb 2013 to get in line and ordered day 1 when the order sheet was available (had no choice or lost my spot) but no way I would buy one of the first ME's. I'll wait for the "Grand Sport" (or whatever name) version with more "advanced features!"

jefnvk

Continue making C7s for dealer and customer orders.

They did in 1984, I have zero reason to believe they won't now

I have little reason to believe it will, but if it does, then Corvette will last a bit longer than it will with a facelifted C7.

People don't buy the Corvette because it has an engine in the front. They buy it because it is an iconic American sports car that is affordable to a large portion of the population and which punches well above its price range in performance. Keep those traits, and it will keep selling.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maxed out fender well limited at 315MM in the rear 255MM in front 45/55 weight distribution. 100 tread treadware R compound tires traction limited to 2000RPM launches. Also have a set of 245 for the front & it seems like 6 of one half dozen of the other in steering effort/response.



Could not imagine with even with a possible 42/58 weight distribution that a ME C8 would not have more tire out back then 305 summers with 500bhp & matching torque levels. Was very surprised by the screenshots of the prototypes tires.

Looked up a Ferrari 488 & Lamborghini Huracan they both listed P245/35ZR20 Square. So the skinnies look doable from a weight power match. Not great from my perspective for optics but be interesting to see how it turns out. Engineering or marketing to get the win?

punky

The current 911 has its 6 cylinder engine in the same place as it was in its Beetle ancestor.

JerryU

^^^
Yep but Dr. Porsche knew the right place was an ME! He worked on the successful German race cars in 1930's. As a great engineer he knew polar moment of inertia was key to handling. However when he built the 1st 356 as a mid engine in 1948 it was too costly. He reverted to more VW parts with the engine in the rear! Saw a ME 911 race car being built last year at Porsche Racing. There have been other ME Porsche race cars in the past.

BEAR-AvHistory

Always liked that Auto Union F1 car




Fantasy cars when I was a kid. Auto Union Stromlinie

Mikec7z

First c8's are going to "push" a lot in fast corners is my opinion. With the extra weight over the rear, the super wide tires are no longer needed, and running a much thicker tire in the back than the front i believe will result in a pushing feel/characteristic.

I want the back end to be able to step out a little bit, not be like an indy car where you either have it or completely lose it.

It will be interesting to see how GM does things moving forward, up into the z06 and zr1 power cars.

Huracan is one of the fastest cars ever around the ring.