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Unlikely base MEC using “upgraded LT1”

Old 12-22-2018, 12:56 AM
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ConcernedCitizen
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Default Unlikely base MEC using “upgraded LT1”

Does anyone else find the reports of the base model C8 getting an upgraded version of the Lt1 with an estimated 500-520hp highly unlikely.

What about the Cadillac derived 4.2l blackwing? Compact design. Built in Bowling Green. Cadillac killing the car it was designed for. 550hp and oh yeah, a reported 500hp detuned version. Sound like that’s your base and GT power plant to me.

Why not showcase your latest tech in the most important car release in decades.?
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:09 AM
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The CAD drawings of the C8 had it with an LT engine. I think it would make the perfect base engine. Good solid all round engine with out the complexity and high service costs of a DOHC engine. Then you could have the DOHC TT in the optional versions for those that want that.

Last edited by Tom73; 12-22-2018 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:41 AM
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I would much prefer a NA motor over something with turbos. CAFE will force the smaller turbo motors but if they can sneak in a few more years of large CI NA motors it would be great.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:37 AM
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No interest for a truck motor in an ME car.
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:40 AM
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who has time to create these BULLSHIT accounts to post obvious troll threads...
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:32 AM
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I still believe the base engine will be an enhanced LT1 (LT2) with port and direct injection delivering a minimum of 500 HP.
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by HooosierDaddy View Post
who has time to create these BULLSHIT accounts to post obvious troll threads...
Wow, welcome to the forum��



Last edited by Steven Bell; 12-28-2018 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Fixed Quote Box
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Old 12-22-2018, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ConcernedCitizen View Post
Does anyone else find the reports of the base model C8 getting an upgraded version of the Lt1 with an estimated 500-520hp highly unlikely.


an LT based engine is the lowest cost route to useful HP levels.

What about the Cadillac derived 4.2l blackwing? Compact design. Built in Bowling Green. Cadillac killing the car it was designed for. 550hp and oh yeah, a reported 500hp detuned version. Sound like that’s your base and GT power plant to me.
Z51 engine.

Why not showcase your latest tech in the most important car release in decades.?
Cost.
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by HooosierDaddy View Post
who has time to create these BULLSHIT accounts to post obvious troll threads...
80% of the posters in the C8 section of the forum.
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
an LT based engine is the lowest cost route to useful HP levels.



Z51 engine.



Cost.
I would think return on investment would far outweigh “cost” as far as GM is concerned.. The Lt1 r&d and production has realized an incredible return for GM, while the “blackwing” is left to languish without a platform or in a limited production model ie c8 GT. That doesn’t sound like GM to me.

As far as cost to the consumer, how much do you think new dohc 4.2 would add to the price over the Lt1? I say not much as compared to the total price of the new platform.
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Old 12-22-2018, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso View Post
No interest for a truck motor in an ME car.
what does this even mean?
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Old 12-22-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ConcernedCitizen View Post

I would think return on investment would far outweigh “cost” as far as GM is concerned.. The Lt1 r&d and production has realized an incredible return for GM, while the “blackwing” is left to languish without a platform or in a limited production model ie c8 GT. That doesn’t sound like GM to me.

As far as cost to the consumer, how much do you think new dohc 4.2 would add to the price over the Lt1? I say not much as compared to the total price of the new platform.
To kind of give you an idea as to what engines costs(discounted price at sdparts, a GM dealer).

C6 LS3 base engine 430 HP $7050

C6 Z06 LS7 engine 505 HP $12,169

C7 ZR1 LT5 engine 755 HP $17,915.
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Old 12-22-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ConcernedCitizen View Post

I would think return on investment would far outweigh “cost” as far as GM is concerned.. The Lt1 r&d and production has realized an incredible return for GM, while the “blackwing” is left to languish without a platform or in a limited production model ie c8 GT. That doesn’t sound like GM to me.

As far as cost to the consumer, how much do you think new dohc 4.2 would add to the price over the Lt1? I say not much as compared to the total price of the new platform.
a) the cost of the "blackwing" without a platform is a sunk cost.

b) A new DOHC 4-ish litre motor has 6X the camshaft turning mechanism, 4X the number of cams, 2X the number of valves, springs, tappets,....

a NEW LT1 is $9,700 from JEGS right now
a NEW DOHC would be somewhere in the $14,000 range

Not "that much" but enough to worry the accountants.......
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Old 12-22-2018, 11:46 PM
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The upcoming ME will have, year one and probably after that , a LT1 derived, but enhanced motor. The LT1 started to be designed about eight years ago, appeared in GM trucks six years ago, an eternity in terms of motor developments. The LT2 (for lack of a better code) will be an LT1 with major developments such as the four major ones debuted in the brand new 4 cyclinder GM truck motor, though some of the components of that motor will not be in the LT2, e.g., the turbo.

Thanks to JerriVette for finding this video:


Here then are some of those potential C8 motor enhancements coming from that new GM truck motor.

1) Electric water pump, with varying amounts of flow based on need, not related strictly to RPM;
2) Advance engine heat management — both for quicker, better fuel and emissions measures on start up, but also for long term motor longevity and power capabilities;
3) Sliding or “axial” camshaft, giving the best variability for both power and economy, not being, as most previous engines are a compromise camshaft needing to balance the two competing needs. Also near infinite adjustability of valve lift.
4) Transitioning from previous two stage/two step oil pumps to a continuously variable output one — for better engine efficiency.

With these enhancement we can easily see the ME’s LT2 approaching or exceeding 500 HP, and a roughly similar amount of torque.
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by elegant View Post
The upcoming ME will have, year one and probably after that , a LT1 derived, but enhanced motor. The LT1 started to be designed about eight years ago, appeared in GM trucks six years ago, an eternity in terms of motor developments. The LT2 (for lack of a better code) will be an LT1 with major developments such as the four major ones debuted in the brand new 4 cyclinder GM truck motor, though some of the components of that motor will not be in the LT2, e.g., the turbo.

Thanks to JerriVette for finding this video:

https://youtu.be/9w3HItRrbI4

Here then are some of those potential C8 motor enhancements coming from that new GM truck motor.

1) Electric water pump, with varying amounts of flow based on need, not related strictly to RPM;
2) Advance engine heat management — both for quicker, better fuel and emissions measures on start up, but also for long term motor longevity and power capabilities;
3) Sliding or “axial” camshaft, giving the best variability for both power and economy, not being, as most previous engines are a compromise camshaft needing to balance the two competing needs. Also near infinite adjustability of valve lift.
4) Transitioning from previous two stage/two step oil pumps to a continuously variable output one — for better engine efficiency.

With these enhancement we can easily see the ME’s LT2 approaching or exceeding 500 HP, and a roughly similar amount of torque.

Alfa engines of the 80s. Technology dates back to the 20s. An Italian engineer invented the DCT for armored military vehicles in the 30s so that they would not get stuck in the mud. Ain't nothing new.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post


what does this even mean?
It means the 6.2L is used in the Silverado pick-up truck.
If the ME uses a small block Chevy motor that started life in 1955, it is going to have a serious marketing problem.
If it uses a twin turbo hot V DOHC that was just developed and produced this year, Corvette will not be seen as old tech 20th century engineering.
The Blackwing will be more powerful that the LT1 and likely more fuel efficient as well. Going old school on the motor makes no sense for a brand new Corvette.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
It means the 6.2L is used in the Silverado pick-up truck.
If the ME uses a small block Chevy motor that started life in 1955, it is going to have a serious marketing problem.
If it uses a twin turbo hot V DOHC that was just developed and produced this year, Corvette will not be seen as old tech 20th century engineering.
The Blackwing will be more powerful that the LT1 and likely more fuel efficient as well. Going old school on the motor makes no sense for a brand new Corvette.
The first cars to utilize OHC engines was the Maudslay designed by Alexander Craig and introduced in 1902 and the Marr Auto Car designed by Michigan native Walter Lorenzo Marr in 1903. The first DOHC car was a 1912 Peugeot which won the French Grand Prix at Dieppe that year.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
If the ME uses a small block Chevy motor that started life in 1955, it is going to have a serious marketing problem.
Maybe an education problem. Today’s SBC is a totally different engine. That basic 1955 engine was used in the Vette until 1991. In ‘92 they came out with a new LT engine. Then with the all new clean sheet design for the C5 we got the all new, clean sheet designed LS engine. Now we have the even newer LT engine. Old tech, no way. Just people that don’t know engine history.

A DOHC engine would be a cool factor for when you pop the engine cover or to hear it reving out as you go down the road (if Chevy will allow it the high revs). But for me I would much prefer the reliability, lower service costs, better packaging, and equal HP of the LT engine.
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:46 PM
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I use my sports cars as daily drivers. I love the idea of a lt1 derived motor for the c8.

replacement parts are inexpensive and durability over the life of the engine is world class.

go replace a german engine in a german sports car. Good luck.

i fully expect a 10 percent increase utilizing the technologies that gm recently released in its 2.7 turbo four truck motor.

gm was able to create a 30 percent increase in hp from the 2.4 turbo four 238 hp motor in the cadillac xt4 to a full 310 hp in the 2.7 liter tirbo four...

remember the c5 to c6 gm was able to find 50 hp and in the third year of the c6 able to add an additional 36 hp in the ls3 for a total naturally aspirated v8 to gain 86 hp from the 350 hp ls1 in 2004 to 2008 c6s 436 hp powerplant.

I believe 500 hp or 40 more than todays lt1 is doable as is 60 hp...

think positive and wait for the release...

as far as the twin turbo v8...doubling the 2.7 turbo four to 5.4 or 5.5 liters does make some economic semse....same bore, same stroke..blah blah blah...we should see an easy620 hp from the turbo v8...

we are all just shooting the breeze...but where I sit...i like inexpensive ohv compact power durable engines for my daily driver sports cars that i plan toput over 100k miles on...

i especially lime the fact that maintaince cinsists mostly of changing the oil ever 7k miles or so...changing the spark plugs and wires at 50k miles and not much more...

i listen to maintaince and repair costs on using a finely engineered porsche engine to 100k and I cringe...

this video makes a crazy bleed on cashflow for an porsche motor...

f that..lol

Matt's Safari 911 Engine Needs a Rebuild - Here's What's Wrong (And How ...
via @YouTube

german craftmanship wtf?
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Old 12-24-2018, 06:48 PM
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The current LT motor has nothing in common with a 1955 small block.

It also not a truck engine as the torque profile of a truck engine is completely different from the Corvette LT engine.

But if if someone wants a more complex dohc engine, that costs more, weights more, has a higher center of gravity, will be less reliable, more susceptible to heat soak, has turbo lag and more expensive to maintain/repair/modify so they can save a few cents at the pump, well... they are special, more power to them.


Originally Posted by PCMIII View Post
It means the 6.2L is used in the Silverado pick-up truck.
If the ME uses a small block Chevy motor that started life in 1955, it is going to have a serious marketing problem.
If it uses a twin turbo hot V DOHC that was just developed and produced this year, Corvette will not be seen as old tech 20th century engineering.
The Blackwing will be more powerful that the LT1 and likely more fuel efficient as well. Going old school on the motor makes no sense for a brand new Corvette.

Last edited by NY09C6; 12-24-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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