Can GM actually build a Sports Car?
01-02-2019, 12:57 PM
#61
No One Knows What "Sports Car" Actually Means Anymore
Remember when names used to mean something?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/
Remember when names used to mean something?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/
More and more Muscle Cars are being called "Sports Cars."
It's ridiculous.
At the moment, there is only ONE Sports Car being produced in America.
Last edited by sunsalem; 01-02-2019 at 12:58 PM.
01-02-2019, 02:18 PM
#62
Melting Slicks
1. Apples to oranges comparisons of new ZR1 to used McLaren's...
2. The Z06 and ZR1 are very competitive on technical road courses. They probably handle as good as if not better than the McLaren 570 and 620.
3. The McLaren is faster in a straight line due to slightly better power:weight, ME layout, and less intrusive aero that allows it to have far less wind resistance when driving fast in a straight line.
In the end pick your poison - the C7 Z cars sacrifice top end speed due to more cost effective aerodynamic solutions to keep us from killing ourselves when driving triple digit speeds. You pay more for the more complex solution McLaren has developed. Hopefully the C8 will offer active aero to allow this platform to be a bit more competitive with these supercars. Active aero does not have to break the bank either.
2. The Z06 and ZR1 are very competitive on technical road courses. They probably handle as good as if not better than the McLaren 570 and 620.
3. The McLaren is faster in a straight line due to slightly better power:weight, ME layout, and less intrusive aero that allows it to have far less wind resistance when driving fast in a straight line.
In the end pick your poison - the C7 Z cars sacrifice top end speed due to more cost effective aerodynamic solutions to keep us from killing ourselves when driving triple digit speeds. You pay more for the more complex solution McLaren has developed. Hopefully the C8 will offer active aero to allow this platform to be a bit more competitive with these supercars. Active aero does not have to break the bank either.
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ArmchairArchitect (01-02-2019)
01-02-2019, 03:27 PM
#63
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by SouthernSon
Yep. By the OP's logic I suppose only the Veyron is a sports car. Probably hasn't even sat in one of those vehicles mentioned. I would be happy to give the troll a ride in my ZR1 (or track prepared C5Z). 
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ArmchairArchitect (01-02-2019)
01-02-2019, 09:09 PM
#64
Safety Car
hell we had a 996 cup car show up in white group at PCA, I guess he was gonna show us how it was done...3 laps of my nose up his *** and he gave up (C6Zr1)...I did enjoy the 3 laps, really nice car, good driving, heck of a sweet sound...
I guess it all depends on one definition of a true sports car...the vette to me is one, bar none for the price/performance...but if you want "luxury" sports car then the P F and M cars are going to be the ones to shoot for.
I guess it all depends on one definition of a true sports car...the vette to me is one, bar none for the price/performance...but if you want "luxury" sports car then the P F and M cars are going to be the ones to shoot for.
Last edited by mirage2991; 01-02-2019 at 09:17 PM.
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ArmchairArchitect (01-03-2019)
01-02-2019, 09:53 PM
#65
Race Director
I think true "Muscle" cars are being made in Germany these days, not the U.S.
Last edited by jimmyb; 01-02-2019 at 09:53 PM.
01-02-2019, 11:36 PM
#67
Race Director
01-03-2019, 12:16 AM
#69
Le Mans Master
Given how well the Corvette performs on a track compared to the multi hundred thousand and even million dollar "sports" cars out there, the real question is what could GM build if they were to make a $250K to $400K car?
The Corvette might not have the prestige, or be hand built, or have the rarest and finest interior appointments, but it is more capable than most of the people that drive them in terms of performance. It is also attainable where those other sports cars are merely "wall art" to 99% of the people out there. Who cares if a McLaren or such might be a tick faster? What's the point if you can't actually own one?
The Corvette might not have the prestige, or be hand built, or have the rarest and finest interior appointments, but it is more capable than most of the people that drive them in terms of performance. It is also attainable where those other sports cars are merely "wall art" to 99% of the people out there. Who cares if a McLaren or such might be a tick faster? What's the point if you can't actually own one?
Last edited by lt4obsesses; 01-03-2019 at 08:01 AM.
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ArmchairArchitect (01-03-2019)
01-03-2019, 02:58 AM
#70
01-03-2019, 05:07 AM
#71
Burning Brakes
Yeah, a carbon fiber tub with a 650hp V6 shoved in the middle is a supercar, not a sports car.
01-03-2019, 11:51 AM
#72
Drifting
When you look at the zr1 track times on youTube vs every McLaren or other mid engine sports car you soon realize that Corvette is not even in the same ball park. True, cars like McLaren are very expensive but for what you can buy a nice used McLaren for it is not much more than a new zr1. Now, the mid engine Corvette? How can Corvette compete with other mid engine cars like McLaren? Cars like the Porsche 911 make every Corvette ever built look like a wannabe. For example take the c5 Corvette. The c5 had more problems than you could shake a stick at. Not to mention that for 50k you got an interior that was nothing but cheap plastic.
For years I dreamed of the day I could buy my Dream Car the Corvette. I did buy a new c5 Corvette and I have had every problem with it ever mentioned on this Forum. If, and that is a big IF, I ever buy another sports car it will not be a wannabe Corvette!
For years I dreamed of the day I could buy my Dream Car the Corvette. I did buy a new c5 Corvette and I have had every problem with it ever mentioned on this Forum. If, and that is a big IF, I ever buy another sports car it will not be a wannabe Corvette!
If I wanted to convince people the next gen car was going to suck, I wouldn't go back three gens...I'd try analyzing the C7-- I don't see any issues with my two ('17 GS and Z06).
It's also spurious to say if it doesn't have all the features of the McLaren (at less $) than it's not a "sports car."
Presumably you're comparing the c5 to cars back then...Do you even remember the 996 911?...cheesy interiors were de rigeur back in '97. Mclarens are great cars, 911 are fine cars.
Maybe a used Challenger for you??
Last edited by Parcival; 01-03-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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ArmchairArchitect (01-03-2019)
01-03-2019, 12:08 PM
#73
Melting Slicks
Ok I will take the troll bait... looking at the total cost of ownership I would have to be a multi-millionaire to comfortably afford a McLaren and not worry about anything breaking. I can afford a C7 Z06 on a modest 6 figure income not worrying too much about what might break. My personal rule is to spend at most 10% of my income on my cars. Lets take a look at some of the costs of ownership.
C7 Z06 wheel used - $200-250
MP4 wheel used - $600
C7 Z06 oil change and inspection - $95 ( can do yourself and not void warranty )
MP4 oil change and inspection - $1500 ( good luck )
C7 Z06 alignment - $140
MP4 alignment - $1500
I would love to own a McLaren but for me at this time it make more sense to invest while I am younger and hopefully will have disposable income later to spend on things like a McLaren.
C7 Z06 wheel used - $200-250
MP4 wheel used - $600
C7 Z06 oil change and inspection - $95 ( can do yourself and not void warranty )
MP4 oil change and inspection - $1500 ( good luck )
C7 Z06 alignment - $140
MP4 alignment - $1500
I would love to own a McLaren but for me at this time it make more sense to invest while I am younger and hopefully will have disposable income later to spend on things like a McLaren.
No One Knows What "Sports Car" Actually Means Anymore
Remember when names used to mean something?https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/
01-03-2019, 01:13 PM
#74
No One Knows What "Sports Car" Actually Means Anymore
Remember when names used to mean something?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/
Remember when names used to mean something?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ar-definition/
The author's definition of "sports car" is more restrictive than I would suggest as I feel that the definition has evolved some over time. For example I would include some hard top, two seaters in the definition. But you have to be careful because if you include hard tops where do you draw the line between a sports car and a GT car?
The original definition of a sports car also included a weight maximum of 3,000 lbs. So, maybe a hard top under 3,000 lbs is a sports car whereas one over 3,000 lbs would be a GT car?
Last edited by PurpleLion; 01-03-2019 at 06:07 PM.
01-03-2019, 07:31 PM
#75
When you look at the zr1 track times on youTube vs every McLaren or other mid engine sports car you soon realize that Corvette is not even in the same ball park. True, cars like McLaren are very expensive but for what you can buy a nice used McLaren for it is not much more than a new zr1. Now, the mid engine Corvette? How can Corvette compete with other mid engine cars like McLaren? Cars like the Porsche 911 make every Corvette ever built look like a wannabe. For example take the c5 Corvette. The c5 had more problems than you could shake a stick at. Not to mention that for 50k you got an interior that was nothing but cheap plastic.
For years I dreamed of the day I could buy my Dream Car the Corvette. I did buy a new c5 Corvette and I have had every problem with it ever mentioned on this Forum. If, and that is a big IF, I ever buy another sports car it will not be a wannabe Corvette!
For years I dreamed of the day I could buy my Dream Car the Corvette. I did buy a new c5 Corvette and I have had every problem with it ever mentioned on this Forum. If, and that is a big IF, I ever buy another sports car it will not be a wannabe Corvette!
01-03-2019, 07:47 PM
#76
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Rapid Fred (01-03-2019)
01-03-2019, 07:49 PM
#77
Well, there is the Ford GT, but how many of them have you seen on the road? I've seen one, and I live in LA.
01-03-2019, 09:07 PM
#78
Drifting
the newer GT was driving way faster than my z06 doing 80.
Last edited by Parcival; 01-04-2019 at 06:34 PM.
01-04-2019, 01:44 AM
#79
It isn't a car that is available for purchase by the general public; it's production numbers are just too low.
And it is filled with rareness in every area of its construction...almost to the point of qualifying as a kit car AND a race car.
My point on the GT is it isn't being made for any reason other than to be a collectable and as a vanity project by the Ford Family (nothing wrong with that IMO).
01-04-2019, 10:52 AM
#80
