Originally Posted by JoesC5

The clutch pack in the eLSD is hydraulically controlled. How do they modulate the amount of slippage there?

Originally Posted by descartesfool

Most people who swear by sticks like virtually all my track buddies have never driven a car with a DCT on track, so they don't really know the benefits or drawbacks (can't think of any). But a few of them who have ridden with me on track said, "I guess all that shifting stuff is for the birds". One of those guys is the one who just ordered a P car with a PDK for the track. They are often most amazed by how the transmission can up-shift mid-corner so seamlessly it does not upset the car. That's something I could never do on track with a manual. Just one of the factors that makes a DCT tranny faster on track.

Here is another picture, a cut-way of an AWD DCT showing the input shaft/flange inline with the dual clutch-pack at the front and then the gear-sets behind. The two clutch packs are located inline one behind the other, as shown in the cut-away. Shift forks are under the gear-sets in this picture so you can't see them. You can clearly see the gold colored synchro-rings just as found in any manual transmission. This is a rear-mounted trans-axle like a C7 with the diff in the back of the transmission. As it is AWD, there is a separate output shaft driven by a gear via a multi-plate clutch pack you can see in the cut-away.



Here is a video of a ZF transmission as used by Porsche with a similar but different design for a DCT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=cd10wif87Qk

Another benefit of a DCT people often do not realize is that you can never mis-shift it, as when you want to upshift to 4th gear from 3rd under full acceleration but mistakenly put it into 2nd gear, and over-rev and destroy your engine unless you are fast with the clutch. In a DCT, the computer just won't ever let you do that. Gives you the option of full manual shifting but eliminates engine destroying mis-shifts.

Originally Posted by kozmic

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Think its a nostalgia thing & certainly guys get enjoyment out of a good MT shift. Problem is that is a shrinking MT user world & the general wants to sell cars. Think he will make up quite a bit more (but where are you going to go) then he loses dropping the MT.

BMW has finally canned the MT in the 3/4 series with the new generation. They are rumored to be going to offer a stripped M3/4 track day car with an MT but that is their only concession to the MT market & they will cost through the nose compared to ZF8 or 7DCT.

Don't know what the 2018 take rate was but the Corvette Museum listed 23% for 2016. It been falling steadily so would see the logic in offering the DCT.

Originally Posted by kozmic

Yeah, I can see that too... you'll never see me say that a DCT isn't a great option, but I do prefer the manual... and that is just it... "I" "prefer"... so I just have to laugh at a few folks around here can't seem to stop trying to convince people that others' "opinions" or "preferences" are "wrong".

I am still waiting to see what the new ME car actually brings, and I am not fully ruling it out even if it ships as DCT-only, but the absence of a manual option will definitely make me consider other options (options including other DCT-only vehicles, other manual vehicles, or perhaps building my own).

Originally Posted by Atomic Fred

You are really missing the point. And numbingly repetitive to boot!

The guy you are "arguing" with is not saying what you say he is saying.

descartesfool's excellent post lays it out clearly. The DCT is internally almost identical to the typical stick many of us have operated for many years (in my case 40 WITHOUT owning any slushboxes). It is truly a hybrid. And so, to your left foot it won't feel ANYTHING like a clutch operated manual, but to your butt it will feel the same but much quicker. As you use it, it will perform better than either, though obviously you will need to find something to do with your left foot.

That will appeal to many manual lovers (I personally believe more than half), and probably prettty much all slushbox lovers. I can only speak for myself -- I would NEVER have a slushbox (at least like any one I have ever been forced to drive over the last 4 decades) -- but, if I am fortunate enough to afford a C8 before I am too old to enjoy it, I would be excited about the DCT.

I mean, I see your point, and the Nally's chili can example is really funny, but why can't you understand that we all get, and have gotten every time this stupid debate has cropped up, that the DCT has an automatically operated clutch (well, for efficiency, two of them) and therefore is different from today's M7 -- but those differences are far less important to some folks than others.

Originally Posted by Atomic Fred

Originally Posted by Lacquer

Hey Left foot, learn to use the brake, braking technique is where fast drivers get really fast.

Originally Posted by mschuyler

Next you will be telling us an auto-driving car is really the same as a car you physically drive because, after all, you are still telling the car where to go and the "difference is less important to some folks than others."

Originally Posted by kozmic

This is really a great analogy... because similar to the whole "DCT is faster around the track" comments, so too will self-driving cars be "faster around the track", being able to take a lap to an even further extreme edge of speed through monitoring all track conditions (car/road/speed/turn/wheel slip/elevation change/other cars/etc), micro-adjusting for any tiny change that a human driver would at least take a slit-second longer to react. Great comment.

Originally Posted by Zora_Vette

Self driving cars is a conversation that doesn't need to happen. The tech is nowhere near ready, there is no need to even talk about it. The change from cars that we can drive and personalize to transportation pods owned by companies such as Uber and only used when people need them is not going to happen in our lifetime.

Originally Posted by kozmic

During my lifetime, Bill Gates said "640K of memory was more than anyone needed". He was wrong. For technology, a "lifetime" is like one or two or three decades...and becoming shorter with every passing decade.

Originally Posted by Zora_Vette

We are not going to see cars become soulless boring transportation pods in our lifetime. It's just not going to happen. Sure, computers have quicker reaction times than humans, but computers simply can not account for all the possibilities of hazards we encounter on the road all the time. Plus, even if the technology SOMEHOW happens, cost is going to be a big factor, plus just the massive amount of people that will not be interested. For many reasons, many simply will not even step foot inside one of these self driving vehicles becuase they do not trust the machine to out their life in its hands. The rest will just prefer to drive themselves.

Originally Posted by Atomic Fred