bebezote

damn... 2250... that must be a riot!! very nice... right on !!

Rapid Fred

84 4+3

So, What I have gotten out of this thread is the following:

People buy a car for what they want. Stop arguing with each other. Each one has it's benefits. Manuals are the most engaging, DCTs are for every last tenth and autos are solid for daily's. I'm sorry. After driving for a living doing service work no one in their right mind would want to do 1000+ miles a week in a manual, in town, in traffic for 10+ hours a week only to then crawl in a ditch and plumb something and then drive to the next stop. I did it for one day and was over it. Granted it was a really... really heavy clutch in a car that shouldn't have been driven that much for that but you get the idea, it was what I had available at that moment.

Back on topic, you are going to order/buy the car you want to because it has the features you want. Stop pissing on each other. I like my fun cars to be manual. (sans something like a drag car, turbo 400 is pretty good for running brackets imo) My daily is an auto slushbox (4l60e) because it makes sense for me. Some disagree and that is fine. you like what you like. There is no right or wrong answer. No one is superior to another because of what they drive either. If it doesn't have a manual, don't buy it. It won't have what you're looking for. (Being honest, I have a feeling that this car will upset a lot of people anyway, and I don't think it will be because they may or may not have cut the manual) Honestly GM may lose a decent sized chunk of their audience by doing that if they do in fact do it but hey, they need to make money and need to appeal to younger buyers to do that. They (myself included) are the future. If this does that for the brand then more power to them.

Basically what I am trying to say is calm down. It sucks but hey, that's just life. You can't win at everything and I know that better than most people. It will probably end up being just fine. Just my two cents

MitchAlsup

I have a manual in my Track car,
there are certain turns in a row (Sssss:: 4,5,6,7 TWS short course) where I use the left foot on the brakes and the right foot on the gas and can get through 1 full second faster than using only the right foot. It takes a bit of practice to get the delicate feel one needs on the brakes when alternating the solid feel one needs on the clutch. It also can roast the rotors if you overdo it.

PurpleLion

I am waiting for the C8, but am tempted by the C7. If I go for a C7, I would definitely opt for the M7 also. I hate slushboxes for aggressive driving. I have never found a slushbox that is any good at downshifting especially when compared to a manual or a DCT.

RapidC84B

Yes I followed all your trials with the C7Z and am aware of the GM "solution" cutting up a brake duct inlet. However, to date I have not had an EPS temp issue even in summer heat, but I'm running at VIR with two generous straights. We'll see how it reacts with race tires this season... that said TT use is only a few hard laps then done.

SBC_and_a_stick

My guess is that you need the 285 section tires and the Z07 pack which covers the bottom of the engine bay to upset the EPS. If I ever set foot in a C7 again first thing I'm doing is taking down that flat bottom, the car does not have enough cooling to handle it. I've been thinking about TT but my car would only slot in the fastest group and there is no way I can be even within 10 seconds of the Wolf car that kicks everyone's ***.

All the exotics turn better with trail brake to help them rotate, so that's good, it takes a bit of driver input. However, once you begin accelerating out of the corner, with TC/AH engaged you basically flat foot it and maintain an acceptable steering direction. That's basically it, the car figures it all out so you never have to manage the throttle. Balancing the car on throttle on exit is one of the hallmarks of driving. Having seen what the computers can do for you today, I'm never going to be impressed with any exotic going fast on track. Grandmas driving stick shift with Uber in Europe need more driver skill than these exotics to go fast on track.

In fact, modern TC/AH forces you to give up long learned skills like finding grip through steering. You're only going to upset the computer.

vndkshn

I think that is a big part of the problem, people are talking past each other with their fingers in their ears. I don't see a single post saying that DCT isn't faster, or that it won't prevent a money shift or anything else. But I also don't see the "pro-DCT" sect acknowledging that there is a group of people who gain enjoyment from the interaction of the clutch pedal and the shifter, and using all three pedals, and the shifter, and the steering wheel at the same time.

I for one am open to DCT, but I will admit I am more than a little concerned that I'll get bored with it fairly quickly since the car will not be driven on the track frequently (if ever since I already have several track cars).

Rapid Fred

Good post...

Except...

Don't you think you fell prey to the same accusation vis-a-vis the pro- and "curious" DCT faction? Please do me a favor and read the highlighted area in your post. Then, please go back and find me one post where somebody actually suggested or even hinted that they would not make such an acknowledgement. I will not re-read this whole mess, but I would bet you won't find any -- because I cannot believe any pro- or "curious" DCT person classy enough to own a Vette would say something that stupid! Frankly, I have seen more "insults" and lack of acknowledement of different preferences from the "there better be a clutch or else" crowd.

vndkshn

You won't re-read it, but want me to?
Yeah, no thanks.
And I guess you missed all the "buggy whip" references and the like.

Zaro Tundov

I'd rather have a stick except my back problems would make it impossible to operate the clutch during flare ups. I figure a DCT is the next best thing if it's well-tuned. Given the choice between a badly programmed DCT or a well-programmed torque converter automatic, I'd opt for the TC automatic.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree, its not just here but on most sites as the MT is slowly eliminated from various lines. In another forum its the "Man Pedal" guys vs the people who can't really drive because they have an AT.

I like the DCT think its great but also have fun driving a 5 & 6 speed MT. Think a lot of people who are into performance cars just for the pure enjoyment of driving can see the advantages of both types. Maybe the continuing elimination of the MT from mainstream brands is frustrating a lot of people. But there will always be build it yourself, golden oldies or retro mods & specialized builders to fill the niche as long as there is money to be made.

If the C8 is DCT only its a sign that Chevy is going pure supercar to compete with Ford & Acura but undercut them price wise. Expect that will cause a number of Corvette fans to keep the C7's alive creating a long term cottage industry for parts. I ran my 67 Coupe as pretty much a daily use car for about 28 years so its not a hard thing to do. Sure the car is still alive someplace.

Warp Factor

I really miss manual roll-up windows. Almost can't get them any more. The "true driving experience" is so impoverished without them.

ByByBMW

descartesfool

Assuming the C8 is DCT only like the new GT500 Mustang, the C7 gets discontinued as have all previous versions when a new version comes out, what else are you going to buy if you are a manual tranny, "row your own" die-hard? What's on the list?

NY09C6

SBC_and_a_stick

For track work I can't imagine switching out my Atom for anything. Lightweights with stick shift and two seats are optimized for fun and fast enough to pass anyone in some HPDE days but not too fast that you don't have people to spar with. The Atom is far more redeeming to drive than an exotic, really the essence of car. It's white knuckle driving and if you are quick it's 100% coming from your brains, knuckles and muscles. It's my kind of car.

For street cars made recently you have the 991.2 GT3, C7 ZR1, M3/4, an Aston in the next year, Lotus Evora, GT350, Camaro ZL1, and that's just naming the quicker ones. I don't see anything wrong with buying used to get a wider range of stick cars, and in the case of exotics they come hardly used from people that cruised around on Sundays. Cars built in the 2000s are more appealing to me, they communicate far more, the controls are simple and intuitive, they are generally lighter and less automated. So while technology has advanced as usual I don't think the newer cars are built with the right values.

The tough third category is the race car tow car. You might consider a Jeep Wrangler fun if you are into offroading but otherwise, the sporty suv's that come stick are a very rare breed and used only.

BEAR-AvHistory

Cross the M3/M4 off the list. MT is dead for the regular production G series, sort of. They might, might offer a stripper version of both but nothing is confirmed.

NY09C6

Rapid Fred