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C7 inventories affecting C8?

 
Old 01-29-2019, 06:35 PM
  #41  
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Let me get this straight, some here honestly believe that GM will build and market the C7 and C8 at the same time?
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Old 01-29-2019, 07:34 PM
  #42  
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I guess another way to look at it: the C3 and C4 were about as radically different as the C7 and C8 will be, and not only were they not cross marketed in case people didn't like the space age design, there was a MY gap between them.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:19 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by punky View Post
Let me get this straight, some here honestly believe that GM will build and market the C7 and C8 at the same time?
Some people understand that the BG plant capacity has to be filled with something -- and, unless they are really cheap right out of the box, it won't be just the C8 that will do it (first year "must haves" might keep the plant humming for a year or so, I suppose).

I've listened to both sides of the argument. Neither side has convinced me they know enough to be definitive. Nor would the plant-filler have to be a C7.5, although I think a business case could be made for it (which case, of course, might be pretty weak in today's environment.)

I have lived long enough to have learned that in conjecture discussions (like everything in the C8 section) comments are best couched in a lot of "maybes," possiblys," and "I thinks."
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:25 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
I guess another way to look at it: the C3 and C4 were about as radically different as the C7 and C8 will be, and not only were they not cross marketed in case people didn't like the space age design, there was a MY gap between them.
I completely disagree with this statement. The C4 was a radical (and needed) upgrade. It was, however, the same concept as the C3. Front-engine GT with ample space for two folks to take long trips, and performance that could go from road to track and back. Long nose, fastback, big bubble window, V8, transverse leaf IRS, etc, etc.

The C7 and the C8 will be more different than Porsche's mid and rear engine sports car variants. Keep that in mind as you evaluate the arguments pro and con re the "2 Vette theory."
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:49 PM
  #45  
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Some of us need to understand that the Corvette as we know it today will very soon no longer be produced. What is coming will be an entirely new performance targeted primarily to a different generation and buyer. The Corvette will not survive on sales to baby boomers alone and GM is well aware of this. Many of GMs loyal Corvette customers have already purchased their last. The 30-45 year olds who will be the next generations target audience are not looking for a "freshened up" C7 with 25 more HP. A mid engine, high revving, corner carver is perfect at this time.
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:23 PM
  #46  
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^^^^^
The next gen is not buying that many sports cars, period. Big gamble to stake it all on the C8, don’t you think?
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Old 01-29-2019, 10:50 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by punky View Post
Some of us need to understand that the Corvette as we know it today will very soon no longer be produced. What is coming will be an entirely new performance targeted primarily to a different generation and buyer. The Corvette will not survive on sales to baby boomers alone and GM is well aware of this. Many of GMs loyal Corvette customers have already purchased their last. The 30-45 year olds who will be the next generations target audience are not looking for a "freshened up" C7 with 25 more HP. A mid engine, high revving, corner carver is perfect at this time.
You could have also made that same exact argument in 1967, 1983, 1996, 2004 and 2013. But the C3, in 1968 survived while being a FE, and the C4 in 1984 survived while being a FE and the C5 in 1997 really survived while being a FE and the C6 in 2005 survived while being a FE, and the C7 in 2014 survived while being a FE, so what makes you think that a C8 in 2020 can't survive while being a FE.

Do you think people at GM never considered the Corvette being a mid engine design in the past(Hint: the mid engine design was seriously considered for the new 1963 Corvette per a SAE article written by Duntov in 1962). Every time the Corvette was being redesigned for a new generation, there were plenty of influential people within GM that wanted a mid engine Corvette, but cost was the deciding factor as to why the mid engine Corvette never became a reality.

Last edited by JoesC5; 01-29-2019 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:34 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Atomic Fred View Post
I completely disagree with this statement. The C4 was a radical (and needed) upgrade. It was, however, the same concept as the C3. Front-engine GT with ample space for two folks to take long trips, and performance that could go from road to track and back. Long nose, fastback, big bubble window, V8, transverse leaf IRS, etc, etc.

The C7 and the C8 will be more different than Porsche's mid and rear engine sports car variants. Keep that in mind as you evaluate the arguments pro and con re the "2 Vette theory."
It was a radical styling difference, I can say that would just as much turn off buyers as the rearrangement of the engine location. Even still, it seems to be the one generation most Corvette owners would have rather never had happen. IT was a design to take on the Euro sport cars of the day, departing from what a Corvette traditionally looked like. Sound familiar?

In any case, Corvette Forums might make up, what, 1% of Corvette owners? Even here, it is a relatively small minority saying they refuse to buy ME. Keep that in mind when viewing how the public as a whole is going to accept it. UNLESS it is some sort of limited, one off special edition, or a Caddy, it would simply be silly for GM to produce both at the same time. If you are resorting to such measures, you are already admitting failure.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:36 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
It was a radical styling difference, I can say that would just as much turn off buyers as the rearrangement of the engine location. Even still, it seems to be the one generation most Corvette owners would have rather never had happen. IT was a design to take on the Euro sport cars of the day, departing from what a Corvette traditionally looked like. Sound familiar?
The C4's problem was that despite the futuristic styling it was the same old creaky tub of bolts as before. All show and no go. The C8 will a technological masterpiece.

Last edited by Zaro Tundov; 01-30-2019 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:43 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
The C4's problem was that despite the futuristic styling it was the same old creaky tub of bolts as before. All show and no go. The C8 will a technological masterpiece.
I'm definitely not the world's biggest fan of the C4 (even lesser a fan of most of the C3 years) (the 70's and early 80's were dark times for all performance cars in general), but with that said... just because there are lower-cost options to increase access to a product, does not make the product itself bad, necessarily. That same C4 platform set records for its day...and was a necessary part of the path leading to where we are today...

Last edited by kozmic; 01-30-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:47 PM
  #51  
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C4s were awesome for their time relative to the competition; period. Those cars pictured above are in the NCM, or at least the red one is.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:59 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
There is nothing exclusive about a corvette, I dont think you understand what that term means.
He is saying that in the NY City area there are more Porsches seen on the road Vs Corvettes which makes them exclusive since there aren't as many in that area. However, in the US the Corvette is far more prevalent than 911 Porsches. There are some areas of the country (even in the coastal areas) where people may see a Porsche once or maybe twice per year as the nearest Porsche dealership is a 3 or 4 hour drive away.

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Old 01-30-2019, 01:17 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
C4s were awesome for their time relative to the competition; period. Those cars pictured above are in the NCM, or at least the red one is.
They definitely were awesome. The C4 won every SCCA Showroom Stock race for 3 years running (85, 86, 87) until the other major brands said they wouldn't participate anymore if the Corvette was in the race ( https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...being-too-good ). So the Corvette Challenge was introduced (88/89) and Corvettes ran against themselves for a couple of years. That says a lot when your car is so dominant that it is banned from Competition.

Those Corvettes had 230 HP engines and weighed 3200 lbs. One of the main competitors was the 944 Turbo that had 217 HP pulling 2601 pounds around the track. So much for Porsche excellence.

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Old 01-30-2019, 01:39 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
C4s were awesome for their time relative to the competition; period. Those cars pictured above are in the NCM, or at least the red one is.
I still think they are awesome. My point was more it was a radical departure from the norm back then, and they went ***** to the walls with it. There wasn't any leaving C3s in production just in case people didn't like the new ones, they made the changes and that was that. They didn't even bother to keep C3s in production til the car was ready.

I personally think you will see the same course of action. Yes, there are some here who refuse to buy a ME, but I think when it is announced and orders are opened up you'll see the FE die a quick death. Those that want the FE already have the opportunity to buy one, if they haven't I see no logic in assuming more than a handful will in the future.

Last edited by jefnvk; 01-30-2019 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:47 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
You could have also made that same exact argument in 1967, 1983, 1996, 2004 and 2013. But the C3, in 1968 survived while being a FE, and the C4 in 1984 survived while being a FE and the C5 in 1997 really survived while being a FE and the C6 in 2005 survived while being a FE, and the C7 in 2014 survived while being a FE, so what makes you think that a C8 in 2020 can't survive while being a FE.

Do you think people at GM never considered the Corvette being a mid engine design in the past(Hint: the mid engine design was seriously considered for the new 1963 Corvette per a SAE article written by Duntov in 1962). Every time the Corvette was being redesigned for a new generation, there were plenty of influential people within GM that wanted a mid engine Corvette, but cost was the deciding factor as to why the mid engine Corvette never became a reality.
I agree with all of that. I just turned 64 and am really noticing that people this age and older including myself tend to be resistant to changes of many types. GM knows powers of ten more than we do about what is best for the C8 going forward and have determined that now is the time for a radical new direction for this American icon. Technology along with the preferences of our younger generations are changing at a rate that has never been seen before. There are technical advancements yet to be put into consumer goods that will soon be incorporated into everything we purchase including the next generation of Corvette. Be absolutely certain that there will be hybrid and likely an all electric C8 at some point, you could literally bet your life on this. GM is moving in response to what a generation of sports/performance buyers are interested in and that is not a chrome wheeled performance car that old men slobber over. You might as well just accept what is coming soon, or live in the past. The world will change with or without you.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:38 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
The C4's problem was that despite the futuristic styling it was the same old creaky tub of bolts as before. All show and no go. The C8 will a technological masterpiece.
This is a seriously erroneous claim. The C3 was indeed creaky, as underneath it was a 1963 Sting Ray. Only heavier and with less power!

The C4 was an award winning total redesign. No reusing of a single one of those bolts GM had in the tub,

As far as "go" is concerened, it was competitive with its more expensive contemporaries, and better if you count turns (as most sports car drivers do). Continuous improvemt got them as high as 400 HP before the model died, and base models were putting out 330 HP (conservatively by all accounts) in 1996.

The C8 will be no more of a technological masterpiece (by 2020 standards) than the C4 was (by 1984 standards.) Maybe better to say they're both ENGINEERING masterpieces. I doubt we'll see much in the way of truly new tech in the C8. Now we can all hope that the quality of the 2020 Vette is better than that of the 1984 when it was introduced...
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:18 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by ojm View Post
Has anyone bought the base model C7 and had second thoughts?
I bought the base, base C7 last year and drove it to the drag strip same day, where it ran 11ís. Zero regrets (except not getting the npp exhaust)

Last edited by nexxis; 01-30-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:31 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Zaro Tundov View Post
The C4's problem was that despite the futuristic styling it was the same old creaky tub of bolts as before. All show and no go. The C8 will a technological masterpiece.
I could not agree with you more. Let the C4 R.I.P. Those things are a bad memory now.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:52 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by punky View Post
Some of us need to understand that the Corvette as we know it today will very soon no longer be produced. What is coming will be an entirely new performance targeted primarily to a different generation and buyer. The Corvette will not survive on sales to baby boomers alone and GM is well aware of this. Many of GMs loyal Corvette customers have already purchased their last. The 30-45 year olds who will be the next generations target audience are not looking for a "freshened up" C7 with 25 more HP. A mid engine, high revving, corner carver is perfect at this time.
I agree, baby boomer Route 66 folks who fell in love with the C1 when they were 12 are dropping like flies.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:53 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by kozmic View Post
I completely disagree. There are already plenty of limited production cars out there that can be had. Why take one that isn't, which makes it a lot more accessible to the masses, and turn it into something that is not accessible to the masses? If you want a low-volume exclusive car, go get one... that has never been the model for Corvette, and it will be a sad sad day if that is what it comes to...
I just gave everyone the reason why Corvette doesn't maintain it's value. A car as special as the Corvette is diluted by too many being made.
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