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My VW Golf R has stop/start. These cars are great "grocery getters". Limited release to USA, AWD, DCT, etc., etc. So...If I come to a stop with light pressure on the brake pedal the engine will not shut off. Harder pressure on the pedal and it shuts off, but before I can lift off the brake pedal the car starts again. Very fast. No lurching upon throttle. However, I live in a rural area, and perhaps I wouldn't like it if I lived in the city. So depending on how it is engineered, it may not be so bad.
BINGO! We have a winner. I can do the same thing, and do, on my ‘17 Audi A4, which is the same company. I used to turn the stop/start off with a button every time getting in and starting up. What a pain. But then I discovered the above tactic and thus now never turn it off. Why? Because there are times for me where it somewhat makes sense like where a number of local intersections near me that have extremely long light cycles (3-5 min). And there are those that stay lit red almost forever for emergency vehicle passing though. Thus, I can pick and choose when stop/start activates with the brake pedal. Problem minimized not solved for me.
Its going to have it. Its potential purchasers will need to get over it. GM will most likely toss in a disable button, simple as hitting it each time you drive it.
If they do, it would be the first GM vehicle with a disable switch.
I find if you have it in a GM rental car, it can be real fun seeing exactly how hard the transmission will slam into gear after it starts and revs to 4,000 rpms in half a second.
For those that say it is seamless, it is only so if you are one of those people that ease away from a stop at a pace where you get to 30 mph in 10 seconds. Otherwise start up to moving takes about 1.5 seconds, and that is a lot of time while you are waiting for your small opening into traffic.
If there is a non-defeatable start-stop on the C8, I can say I will never own one.
I've had it in 3 vehicles, and it works flawlessly. I used to turn it off because I was skeptical like most who've never been exposed to it, but now I leave it on all the time. It is not a nuisance at all. I'm very nimble, and have tried to race my foot from brake to throttle to beat engine start, and I failed every time in all 3 vehicles.
Start is absolutely instant as soon as you release the smallest amount of pressure from the brake pedal, and as was said above, with light pedal pressure it never shuts the engine down. I like it!
Aside of this annoying start/stop feature, I think drivers are becoming "dumber" and loosing basic but yet essential driving reflexes:
If you can't stay in your lane
If you can't brake when you're supposed to
If you can't change lane when it's clear
if you can't back up without a camera
If you can't parallel park
if you can't take off from a stop on a hill (manual tranny)
Essentially if one can't drive, then ....
Drivers have always failed at doing this stuff, that is why the tech has evolved. People in the 50s, 60s, 70s weren't better drivers than today, they just crashed and injured and died at a much higher rate when they made the same screwups. Survivorship bias is a very real thing.
I mean, rumble strips on the side/center of the road and approaching intersections were around when I was a kid in the 80s, they predate any vehicle tech notifying people when they are leaving the lane or need to stop. How do you explain that, if folks were smarter back then?
To me one of the biggest start/stop button issues with my ‘17 A4 is after starting the engine, a second button has to be pushed to deactivate the start/stop function. I know, what’s the big deal, but for me it is even being only one extra step. And I can understand the preceaved concern of wear on the drive train, true or not true. I use the brake pedal pressure technique.
So looking back at Zerv02’s drawing of the Huracan style Start Switch (A) what if there are TWO independent start buttons. One accessible with the red cover down (B), start/stop deactivated upon starting the engine, and the other with the red cover up (C), start/stop activated when starting the engine. Problem solved at least in regards to multiple buttons pushed to start/stop the engine. I looked and the Huracan currently doesn’t have that second button feature incorporated in that switch.
I would happily take a stop/start with disable feature over cylinder deactivation any day. I’m hoping they just let the C8 be a V8 with none of that but I’m doubtful.
One accessible with the red cover down (B), start/stop deactivated upon starting the engine, and the other with the red cover up (C), start/stop activated when starting the engine. Problem solved at least in regards to multiple buttons pushed to start/stop the engine.
I like the creativity, but it would still be considered a bypass device by the EPA, and again require all of the emissions/economy testing to also be done with start/stop system turned off, helping to negate its inclusion in the first place. More likely than not, that is simply a cover that you are going to be complaining about having to move everytime you want to turn the car on and off
It is not an engineering decision, it is effectively a regulatory decision if you want the better numbers. Same reason you have to turn off TCS or put it back into track mode everytime you key cycle the car.
To me one of the biggest start/stop button issues with my ‘17 A4 is after starting the engine, a second button has to be pushed to deactivate the start/stop function. I know, what’s the big deal, but for me it is even being only one extra step. And I can understand the preceaved concern of wear on the drive train, true or not true. I use the brake pedal pressure technique.
So looking back at Zerv02’s drawing of the Huracan style Start Switch (A) what if there are TWO independent start buttons. One accessible with the red cover down (B), start/stop deactivated upon starting the engine, and the other with the red cover up (C), start/stop activated when starting the engine. Problem solved at least in regards to multiple buttons pushed to start/stop the engine. I looked and the Huracan currently doesn’t have that second button feature incorporated in that switch.
Just a thought while eating my Cheerios.
My BMW and Mini both have it. Mini is only active if I choose "Eco" (can override it by pushing a button once in eco mode), Mid and Sport engine runs all the time. BMW same way, I choose Eco, it switches to start stop which I can over ride by pushing a button. Normal and sport are "run all the time". If C8 has that feature, it's not an issue at all for me.
I've only driven one vehicle with the start stop (GM) and it was God awful. I also own 2 gm vehicles with dod and that sucks equally as much. The day I rolled it off the dealers lot I could hear the lifter tick when it engages and feel the shudder when it drops in and out. The other vehicle i tuned it out of and had no measurable, read averaged over a year, difference in fuel consumption. Within 1%.
I could see start stop making a measurable difference but here where you generally just stop at a light and it switches right back to green I'd imagine its marginal. There has to be some curve of time spent stopped vs fuel consumption saved. If it's only a couple seconds I can't see it doing much. I'd bet 10 seconds on up it begins to become appreciable over the tank, especially if that happens a few times a mile.
It is not a regulatory requirement. The regs do incent its use, though.
Its part of the overall fuel consumption requirements across the line. Trucks (SUV's) are exempted but cars aren't.
Its why the C7 has a 7 speed box (which IMO ruins the shifting pattern), a stupid 1-4 shift lock out (which IMO really ruins it at low speeds), and V4 mode (which IMO is horrible sounding and feeling when used).
If they get better EPA fuel economy on the C7 it helps the rest of Chevy's fleet requirements.
Its part of the overall fuel consumption requirements across the line. Trucks (SUV's) are exempted but cars aren't.
Its why the C7 has a 7 speed box (which IMO ruins the shifting pattern), a stupid 1-4 shift lock out (which IMO really ruins it at low speeds), and V4 mode (which IMO is horrible sounding and feeling when used).
If they get better EPA fuel economy on the C7 it helps the rest of Chevy's fleet requirements.
The skip shift has been a thing since 89 iirc. That ain't going no where.
Its part of the overall fuel consumption requirements across the line. Trucks (SUV's) are exempted but cars aren't.
Its why the C7 has a 7 speed box (which IMO ruins the shifting pattern), a stupid 1-4 shift lock out (which IMO really ruins it at low speeds), and V4 mode (which IMO is horrible sounding and feeling when used).
If they get better EPA fuel economy on the C7 it helps the rest of Chevy's fleet requirements.
Correct. And if the target isn't met, there is fine/penalty either eaten by the manufacturer or passed through to the customer. Just like the gas guzzler tax I paid on my C6 ZR1, and on my C7 Z06 (and which I'd gladly pay on the C8 ME to avoid this device). Thus, it is not a legally mandated device. It is, as you appropriately note, a device (among others) that a manufacturer might be incented to use. The brand new Acura RDX - just released upon a new re-design, has no auto stop/start, and is a good example. You either meet the platform's CAFE target as a manufacturer, or you or your customer pays the penalty for not doing so.
So ONE feature will preclude a purchase even though sounds like almost every car has or has stop/start? I guess they researched this stuff but I don't see how it saves fuel. I thought it took more to start a car. I saw a Lincoln on You Tube that had it and when it stopped IT STOPPED. One wire caused this and multiple "fixes" and tows kept the guy back and forth. UGH
Over the years CORVETTE (7 for me) have had gremlins this could be a very irritable one.
Nope, it definitely saves fuel, and there are plenty of studies on this. Manufacturers aren't stupid, and they do extensive testing. Jerry posted a chart above showing 17% of average fuel consumption is at idle. Stop/Start won't save all of that, but it takes a big bite out of it.
After getting used to them for several years now, I like that feature. It is no bother at all, unless you get it stuck in your head that you don't like it for no good reason.
01-29-2019, 08:13 AM
