Please, Chevrolet....NO Start/Stop Technology on C8
01-30-2019, 09:40 AM
#81
Drifting
People keep talking like this is a “feature” GM is offering. It’s not... it’s to meet government regulations as many have pointed out. It’s not just to save gas, it’s also to limit emissions. I know some believe global climate change isn’t a thing so don’t understand that. If it was just to save you some money on gas then it would be completely optional on all cars and 100% defeatable. New cars will eventually not allow it to be disabled whether we like it or not.
PS... for the record, I hate it too and won’t buy a car where I can’t at least turn it off with the push of a button. Unfortunately, some day I won’t have the choice.
PS... for the record, I hate it too and won’t buy a car where I can’t at least turn it off with the push of a button. Unfortunately, some day I won’t have the choice.
edit: need to add that I'm talking about stop/start as it's implemented on my ATS. I understand it's really annoying in some implementations and I wouldn't buy those cars either.
I'm confident that Juechter's team will design a stop/start feature that is all but transparent to the driver. Will it wear out the engine quicker? Not as quick as you guys who wring out the engine every chance you get (you know who you are). I should know, I'm one of you!
Last edited by Zaro Tundov; 01-30-2019 at 09:46 AM.
01-30-2019, 10:08 AM
#82
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,247
Received 5,443 Likes
on
2,270 Posts
Like the skip-shift defeat bypass (1-4th gear) which has been around since the early 90's on Corvettes, does anyone know if there is a simple, aftermarket device that can defeat this stop-start feature? Or, is it so integral to the car that it would be a complicated process not easily done?
Info here:
https://www.smartstopstart.com/
It appears to be a one-time plug and play - like the skip shift delete you reference is. I haven't tried it out on anything, so I can't attest to how well it works.
01-30-2019, 02:50 PM
#84
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
Posts: 29,474
Received 9,617 Likes
on
6,624 Posts
Another, I’ll never buy a C8 with Stop/Staert! As Foose said his and our 2018 BMW start the instant your foot is off the brake. Never get to the throttle and it’s started. Another poster said some also start when the car in front moves!
I also never hear the starter motor. Some cars shut off the engine just after a cylinder fires and the pressure remains high in the cylinder. When ready to start that pressure is the major source to turn the crank. (Side issue, that also happens with the 4 cylinders the C7 shuts off when going to V4 mode. That pressure is maintained.)
Give GM credit to do it “right.” Some don’t understand the option is hybrids or EVs. The World is Changing when it comes to car options. Just ask Mary Barra!
I also never hear the starter motor. Some cars shut off the engine just after a cylinder fires and the pressure remains high in the cylinder. When ready to start that pressure is the major source to turn the crank. (Side issue, that also happens with the 4 cylinders the C7 shuts off when going to V4 mode. That pressure is maintained.)
Give GM credit to do it “right.” Some don’t understand the option is hybrids or EVs. The World is Changing when it comes to car options. Just ask Mary Barra!
Last edited by JerryU; 01-30-2019 at 02:53 PM.
01-30-2019, 04:39 PM
#85
That's a good point, Jerry. I've never heard the starter motor on any of the 3 vehicles I've had w/ stop/start. The engine instant fires every time.
The following users liked this post:
JerryU (01-30-2019)
01-30-2019, 04:55 PM
#86
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
Posts: 29,474
Received 9,617 Likes
on
6,624 Posts
^^^
Yep, similar to starting some WWII airplane engines with a blank shotgun shell!
Yep, similar to starting some WWII airplane engines with a blank shotgun shell!
Last edited by JerryU; 01-30-2019 at 04:56 PM.
01-30-2019, 04:59 PM
#87
In my view if something both saves me gas and limits CO2 emissions while having no impact on performance then it's a feature. I also consider ABS, seat belts, and airbags, despite being federally mandated, to be features because they make me less likely to die. Death negatively impacts performance insofar as I can experience it.
edit: need to add that I'm talking about stop/start as it's implemented on my ATS. I understand it's really annoying in some implementations and I wouldn't buy those cars either.
I'm confident that Juechter's team will design a stop/start feature that is all but transparent to the driver. Will it wear out the engine quicker? Not as quick as you guys who wring out the engine every chance you get (you know who you are). I should know, I'm one of you!
edit: need to add that I'm talking about stop/start as it's implemented on my ATS. I understand it's really annoying in some implementations and I wouldn't buy those cars either.
I'm confident that Juechter's team will design a stop/start feature that is all but transparent to the driver. Will it wear out the engine quicker? Not as quick as you guys who wring out the engine every chance you get (you know who you are). I should know, I'm one of you!
What I mean is that they aren't offering it because they believe their buyers would largely choose it. Some would. Some wouldn't... as clearly evidenced here. If it were a "feature" of the car, it would be offered but also be easily disabled for those that don't want that "feature". This is something that is required by regulation and not primarily by customer demand. Again, maybe semantics.Also, I would argue it has an impact on performance... there isn't a start/stop function on any car I've driven yet that I haven't disliked. If I dislike it, it impacts performance. If GM does it such that you can't tell it's there, then I agree there is no impact on performance. Every implementation I have experienced has had a negative impact on "performance" thus far... maybe they will change the trend! If not, as long as I can press a button to disable it after I get in the car, that's fine too.
By the way, I'm not debating the bigger picture benefit. I think it is real and important. I just don't like it on my Corvette. On my wife's Lexus, sure. On my DD BMW, sure. On my weekend fun car, I'd prefer it not be there OR not impact performance (i.e. I can't tell it's there).
Last edited by gthal; 01-30-2019 at 05:01 PM.
01-30-2019, 05:16 PM
#89
I think we are debating semantics What I mean is that they aren't offering it because they believe their buyers would largely choose it. Some would. Some wouldn't... as clearly evidenced here. If it were a "feature" of the car, it would be offered but also be easily disabled for those that don't want that "feature". This is something that is required by regulation and not primarily by customer demand. Again, maybe semantics.
Also, I would argue it has an impact on performance... there isn't a start/stop function on any car I've driven yet that I haven't disliked. If I dislike it, it impacts performance. If GM does it such that you can't tell it's there, then I agree there is no impact on performance. Every implementation I have experienced has had a negative impact on "performance" thus far... maybe they will change the trend! If not, as long as I can press a button to disable it after I get in the car, that's fine too.
By the way, I'm not debating the bigger picture benefit. I think it is real and important. I just don't like it on my Corvette. On my wife's Lexus, sure. On my DD BMW, sure. On my weekend fun car, I'd prefer it not be there OR not impact performance (i.e. I can't tell it's there).
What I mean is that they aren't offering it because they believe their buyers would largely choose it. Some would. Some wouldn't... as clearly evidenced here. If it were a "feature" of the car, it would be offered but also be easily disabled for those that don't want that "feature". This is something that is required by regulation and not primarily by customer demand. Again, maybe semantics.Also, I would argue it has an impact on performance... there isn't a start/stop function on any car I've driven yet that I haven't disliked. If I dislike it, it impacts performance. If GM does it such that you can't tell it's there, then I agree there is no impact on performance. Every implementation I have experienced has had a negative impact on "performance" thus far... maybe they will change the trend! If not, as long as I can press a button to disable it after I get in the car, that's fine too.
By the way, I'm not debating the bigger picture benefit. I think it is real and important. I just don't like it on my Corvette. On my wife's Lexus, sure. On my DD BMW, sure. On my weekend fun car, I'd prefer it not be there OR not impact performance (i.e. I can't tell it's there).
A lot of people dislike a lot of things for no good reason. You may perceive it has a negative performance impact when in actuality it does not.
Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 05:22 PM.
01-30-2019, 05:28 PM
#90
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
Posts: 7,076
Received 1,817 Likes
on
1,085 Posts
I'm puzzled by your sentence in bold above, which just doesn't make sense. Having an impact on performance would be demonstrating that the same vehicle would be slower from 0-60 with start/stop enabled vs. with it off. I'm not aware of any test data indicating that, and I'd be very surprised if it were true, although I've never tested.
A lot of people dislike a lot of things for no good reason. You may perceive it has a negative performance impact when in actuality it does not.
A lot of people dislike a lot of things for no good reason. You may perceive it has a negative performance impact when in actuality it does not.
01-30-2019, 05:32 PM
#91
It doesn't even do that.
01-30-2019, 06:30 PM
#92
I'm puzzled by your sentence in bold above, which just doesn't make sense. Having an impact on performance would be demonstrating that the same vehicle would be slower from 0-60 with start/stop enabled vs. with it off. I'm not aware of any test data indicating that, and I'd be very surprised if it were true, although I've never tested.
A lot of people dislike a lot of things for no good reason. You may perceive it has a negative performance impact when in actuality it does not.
A lot of people dislike a lot of things for no good reason. You may perceive it has a negative performance impact when in actuality it does not.
The following users liked this post:
OnPoint (01-31-2019)
01-30-2019, 07:33 PM
#93
OK, fair enough. As I said, a lot of people don't like things for no good, or perhaps more accurately stated no objective reason, but their personal preferences are valid to them. 
Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 07:37 PM.
01-30-2019, 08:16 PM
#94
Melting Slicks
I work with a lot cheaper, more mundane, non-performance cars on a daily basis, and I don't have too many complaints about Start/Stop. Its pretty seamless these days. Yes, five years ago I probably would have been on the haters side, there were quite a few bad implementations early on, but now its really a non-issue.
As far as the performance, I'd be surprised if it weren't disabled in whatever sport/performance/track modes the new cars offer.
As far as the performance, I'd be surprised if it weren't disabled in whatever sport/performance/track modes the new cars offer.
Last edited by jefnvk; 01-30-2019 at 08:16 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by jefnvk:
Foosh (01-30-2019),
Zaro Tundov (01-31-2019)
01-30-2019, 08:17 PM
#95
Just go buy a Tesla if you are so concerned about the environment that you think a few moments of a stopped engine on a V8 is going to save the planet. It isn't. You shouldn't be buying a car like this at all if this is your primary concern. Just buy a Tesla, plenty of performance with their sport models, and be done with it. Or buy a Taycan.
01-30-2019, 08:24 PM
#96
Well, until all the coal-fired power plants on the east coast and other areas of the country are replaced, you're not be going to do much for the environment either. If electric cars were to take over tomorrow, the environment would likely be worse off, but the power grid couldn't handle the demand anyway.
I can see it now . . . "Sorry you can't charge your car today, due to temps forecast in the mid-100s."
I can see it now . . . "Sorry you can't charge your car today, due to temps forecast in the mid-100s."
Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 08:28 PM.
01-30-2019, 08:52 PM
#97
Le Mans Master
Well, until all the coal-fired power plants on the east coast and other areas of the country are replaced, you're not be going to do much for the environment either. If electric cars were to take over tomorrow, the environment would likely be worse off, but the power grid couldn't handle the demand anyway.
I can see it now . . . "Sorry you can't charge your car today, due to temps forecast in the mid-100s."
I can see it now . . . "Sorry you can't charge your car today, due to temps forecast in the mid-100s."
Wind "oh the birds"
Solar "Oh it ruins the look of my house"
Hydroelectric "Oh the fish"
They very people proposing that there is in fact a problem can't even agree on what a viable replacement is. And I swear if another person suggests a mother f****ng solar roadway I will kill them. Don't even get me started on why that's a no go from the start.
01-30-2019, 09:36 PM
#98
Race Director
What about the other systems when the engine shouts down, such as heating and a/c. Is there electric motors or some such contraception to keep them going?
Last edited by Tom73; 01-30-2019 at 09:36 PM.
01-30-2019, 09:42 PM
#100
Race Director