Foosh

OK, now I understand. You're talking diesel. That's an entirely different can of worms. We're talking gasoline.

tcinla

Eloquent argument on the topic:

Foosh

Oh great, another YouTube car salesman and so-called expert angling to make money by stirring up controversy. Sorry, not credible.

ByByBMW

You seem to have a very high level of doubt vs credibility. Care to expand on who/what you find credible? This is not giving you a hard time, I am serious.

BEAR-AvHistory

Don't care if the engine has stop/start to get it through EPA/CAFE. As long as they do a "last setting" its a good deal. My start/stop was active the day I picked the car up, that was the last time.

Foosh

I'm not ignoring or dodging your question, but I'm not going waste time writing a point-by-point rebuttal, and stirring up endless arguments over this. This reminds me of the debates years ago about how catalytic converters and emissions control technology were going to ruin the ICE. No amount of proof is going to convince dinosaurs who don't care or are unable to educate themselves or deter shysters seeking to gain attention.

ByByBMW

You answered my question but in ways you might not have imagined.

tcinla

Actually, a cursory review of the guy's content as well as his history provide a good indication of credibility. I didn't see anything for sale in any of them.

Foosh

Well you can start with his opening remarks in the video. His website is a car sales website. And, he appears to be one of the many trying to generate income from his YouTube content.

But actually, I give him points for acknowledging that extra wear and tear is not an issue with start/stop systems, so I suppose he does have some expertise and credibility. I initially stopped watching early, but decided to give him a 2nd chance. While I disagree with some of his conclusions, it's not a bad video. I retract my remarks about his technical credibility, and my only excuse is that I'm spring-loaded to expect BS YouTube videos here because they're so prolific.

His main argument is the added complexity, but those horses left the barn years ago. The failure mode for every start/stop system I've seen is that it just no longer stops the engine, as happened on my Jeep when the original battery aged out. The other is "user annoyance," which is all in one's head and not an issue for most folks.

tcinla

True. But, He's selling cars in Australia and the topic of the video is not "buy from me". In fact, none of the videos I've seen do a hard sell for his services. I see the point of his videos as conveying the topic and not selling. THe fact that he also is a broker doesn't discount any expertise or knowledge on his part. In fact, it only tells me he's got experience in the car industry, if only Australia's... Being here in the U.S., I don't see the content as an up-sell opportunity. So, I've seen nothing to discredit this particular video (on Stop / Start tech). It's non-brand specific.

When you go through the entirety of the content, you see that it makes sense and don't have an urge to send $$ to any particular destination.

Foosh

Fair enough, as I said above, he is fair, and I retracted my prior criticism of his credibility, but he is logging YouTube face time and hits, which is a money maker for a lot of people these days.

He is accurate in terms of saying start/stop systems properly implemented cause no additional wear and tear, which is the main criticism in this thread and other places. If they save a little fuel, put a little less carbon in the atmosphere, and help manufacturers play the CAFE game, I'm all for them. They don't annoy me.

I'm just very down on all the YouTube videos posted around here, thus I initially over-reacted. His is one of the better ones.

rjbigdog

My Kia Stinger has start/stop and it works fine with one exception. When I'm parking the car it will shutoff prior to me pressing the park button. Then it restarts once I press park just to be shutoff with the engine start button.

GundamX7X

If you didn't know the Ferrari 488 Pista also has start/stop, yes on a super car. ��*♂️

Foosh

^

One of the better mic drop posts I've seen.

ojm

Noticed a few times at a stop sign walking the sidewalk that I clearly and loud heard the stop/go engine start, not for me, there is a lot of other cars to spend my hard earned money.
Just more complex and higher repairs.

flyingbunnys

If it works I will not oppose, but if it's like the collision warning sensors all cars seem to have now forget it. There are times where I have plenty of room and the things beep then other times where I almost scrape and have nothing. Can't figure them out. Good thing I only have to deal with it on rental cars.

Honestly the way cars are going ill just drive my 1985 S10 forever. My dad's 65 mustang is nice too. No power breaks no ABS no power steering no problems. Easy to reach everything in the engine area for repair. No electronics to go wrong.

I sound old for a 30 year old...

JerryU

Cars are getting more complex if you haven't noticed! Suggest if you heard it start it probably wasn't the latest technology.

If you have been following the news there will be few options to Stop/Start that reduces some of the ~17% energy in gasoline that gets wasted idling. All manufacturers are doing it NOT to save you gas for pollution reasons!

If you followed the news, Mary Barra has put GM engineers developing EVs. AOC and company wants no fossil fuel for anything by 2030!

As noted below, of the energy in a gallon of gas only ~13% gets to power the car while more is wasted idling. Even worse of that ~13% that gets to power the car about 1/3 goes back into heat when you stop. We can recover some of that waste with thongs like Stop/Start and brake energy recovery.

PS: The Green movement would also like to stop all beef cattle as their farts contribute significantly to global warming. Methane is 28 times potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2! A beef cow produces ~ 40 times more methane than a PIG. If an old dary cow is ground into a McDonalds burger it's twice as much or ~80 pigs. So looks like a hamburger in the future will be made from it's namesake, "HAM!"

Sheep also only produce about 1/7th the methane of a beef cow. I recall years ago getting a Wimpy Burger in the UK. That was their source of burgers before McDonalds etc came to the country. I was convinced from the taste it was made from old sheep that weren't yielding enough wool!

JerryU

You sure sound much older than this 76 year old! In fairness most of my experience with Stop/Start is the wife's BMW X5 SUV. She is on her second one but the old one was like the current 2018. Can't hear it start and if the radio is playing don't hear that it stopped. Some manufacturers are stopping after a combustion event has occurred and using that pressure to assist turning the crank and instantly start. The BMW starts when you foot is off the brake and before you can get to the throttle. (Of interest the C7 shuts valves when it goes from V8 to V4 in a sequence to keep combustion pressure in the shut cylinders!) I have had rental cars where it was not so great!

The collusion avoidance is also non unobtrusive in the BMW. IF my foot is on the brake (not pressing hard but touching) it assumes I'm in control and only shows a Red car on the dash. Have never had it brake for me in 5 years.

The one thing I don't do which most "young folk" (like my grandchildren) and not so young like daughter is use a cell phone when driving. Have my iPhone set not to receive calls when driving. If I'm a passenger or when I want to use the phone after an airplane has landed and is taxying, I have to answer, "I'm not driving." Don't expect my comments to have any effect as they don't on one daughter and all 5 grandchildren, but in 60 years of driving have not had an accident with another vehicle! Attribute that to LUCK AND knowing where all cars are around me at all times. Today especially those using their cell phones who are distracted! (Looking for wood!)

jefnvk

And once again, the second that becomes a memory setting instead of defauling on every key cycle, the EPA testing changes and you lose a lot of the benefits of the system WRT fuel economy numbers that it was implemented for, making the system rather pointless.

JerryU

^^^
This is what Tadge said about a switch to turn off V8 to V4 in automatics:

"Although it may seem like a simple matter to have a " turn off switch" to allow customers to choose between maximum efficiency and full time V8 operation, it is not. We use AFM (Active Fuel Management, or 4 cylinder mode) to enhance fuel economy under light load conditions. It only takes 12 - 40 HP (depending on model and speed) to push a Corvette down a flat road at highway speeds. Producing that small amount of horsepower with all 8 cylinders firing and then practically closing the throttle is not as efficient as running on 4 cylinders with the throttle blade more open. There are very measureable real world economy benefits in addition to fuel economy label, federal fuel economy standards (CAFE) , and gas guzzler tax benefits. The EPA sets the fuel economy and greenhouse gas emissions test procedures for our cars. They are very sensitive to possible customer "work-arounds" that would let customers quickly and easily by-pass efficiency mechanisms. There are even special test protocols that keep manufacturers from claiming a fuel efficiency performance that few customers will actually see. The way this is done is to require testing in a variety of the vehicle modes that customers are likely to use. If there is any question, manufacturers are required to actually survey customers to find out which modes they are using."