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What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?

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What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?

 
Old 01-30-2019, 01:25 PM
  #41  
oregonsharkman
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Originally Posted by TheSenator View Post
Corvette sales.

A 25% dip in YOY sales is losing money. Almost 7,000 cars lost.
It's not an opinion, it's fact.
I disagree. The year over year dip in sales is already forecasted and accounted for in GM's Annual Operating Plan. The first few years sales pay back the NRE invested to develop and bring the car to market. This late in the model run, recurring cost is just parts and manufacturing (and whatever administrative and marketing they still need). As long as GM's forecast is accurate and they build the right amount of cars for the market demand, the 19,000 C7 sales are not considered a loss.

GM knows that they will not sustain a peak sales number over the life of any car, so the program is leaned and the AOP is adjusted in advance as the sales forecast drop according to their plan.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:35 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Me too, and it's quite a stretch to conclude a dual FE and ME strategy is likely based upon the history documented in "All Corvettes are Red."
Considering every set of engineers has wanted to go ME starting with the C2, why would they get the green light from corporate to go ME and then say, "Well lets do a FE car too..."?
Originally Posted by Steve Snake Driver View Post
If any of the mules had sported bigger brakes and tires, you might be able to make a case for limited run of ultra performance ME being built alongside FE. This hasnít been the case with miles that have been widely photographed.
Another great point. We've clearly seen ME mules with solid iron rotors and basic (albeit still very nice) Brembos and smaller tires much akin to the standard Stingray. If the me was a halo car it'd have more serious hardware and they would have brought that hardware to the ring for testing.
Originally Posted by oregonsharkman View Post
I disagree. The year over year dip in sales is already forecasted and accounted for in GM's Annual Operating Plan. The first few years sales pay back the NRE invested to develop and bring the car to market. This late in the model run, recurring cost is just parts and manufacturing (and whatever administrative and marketing they still need). As long as GM's forecast is accurate and they build the right amount of cars for the market demand, the 19,000 C7 sales are not considered a loss.

GM knows that they will not sustain a peak sales number over the life of any car, so the program is leaned and the AOP is adjusted in advance as the sales forecast drop according to their plan.
Agree.. everything past payback is pure profit. Decline in sales near end of generation life cycle is expected and normal.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:40 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Me too, and it's quite a stretch to conclude a dual FE and ME strategy is likely based upon the history documented in "All Corvettes are Red."
Wasn't exactly what he was saying but ok, to each their own! We were kinda having our own little side conversation.

PC

Last edited by Darion; 01-30-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:42 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Tool Hoarder View Post
Considering every set of engineers has wanted to go ME starting with the C2, why would they get the green light from corporate to go ME and then say, "Well lets do a FE car too..."?

Another great point. We've clearly seen ME mules with solid iron rotors and basic (albeit still very nice) Brembos and smaller tires much akin to the standard Stingray. If the me was a halo car it'd have more serious hardware and they would have brought that hardware to the ring for testing.

Agree.. everything past payback is pure profit. Decline in sales near end of generation life cycle is expected and normal.
Indeed, I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall if that had happened in the boardroom. Given Ms. Barra's background and experience, I'm relatively confident she would never have allowed such reckless plan to be taken to the Board. With Camaro line-up performance now essentially equal to the various C7 variants, with the exception of the ZR1, adding a 3rd high performance car to the Chevrolet lineup would be lunacy given the current outlook for car sales.

Now repurposing the Camaro along side an ME version might be a viable strategy at some point.

Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:44 PM
  #45  
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How many FE C8 mules have you seen driving around?
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:44 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by vndkshn View Post
But really, isn't this the problem today with the Grand Sport? Or the Z06? Maybe even the ZR1? Maybe not a quarter million, but there is a substantial price difference between a base Stingray and a loaded out Z06 or ZR1, but to the non-gearhead public, they are identical.
That was more in response to the folks claiming it will be a halo car, ie something that is going to go out and compete with the Ferraris, McLarens, Ford GT, etc. I really can't see it just being a performance package. If you want a performance package, you stick on a supercharge, better shocks and some aero, you don't build an entirely new body for a limited number of builds a year.

That all said, I could still see this being a Caddy, and a FE C8 putzing along just fine in a few years.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:03 PM
  #47  
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As far as, "What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?"

With all due respect IMHO the chances are zero.

The C8 will be a (the) Mid Engine Corvette. The C7 will be the last FE Corvette and new units will likely be around for a while due mainly to remaining inventory.

If anything, the C8 might be a multiple car reveal if the coupe and convertible are revealed together. This would tend to buck the logic that GM could/would get more Marketing bang-for-the-buck (and longevity) by revealing them separately, but with such a revolutionary step in the Corvette legacy, perhaps GM goes all out for the C8 reveal.

Obviously its all speculation, but it sure is exciting to even think that we'll be able to see/drive the very first ME Corvette that's ever made it to actual production!
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:11 PM
  #48  
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The 7G camaro will replace the FE Corvette in the performance FE sector for Chevy.

The Camaro already performs near equal to the Corvette, weight being the major difference with a back seat and slightly larger vehicle package.

A FE Corvette therefore no longer makes sense. An ME is a necessary step forward for Corvette and the Engineers and head of that project have already made that statement publicly and clearly.

I don't know how many more times this can be discussed.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:31 PM
  #49  
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I have already heard reports of the top of the line ZORA reaching 250k according to one that is close to the C8. I've always thought that 200k would be the top limit but apparently not. If this is accurate then my ME + FE duo concept makes even more sense. Remember, they didn't triple the square footage of the Bowling Green plant to still build only one configuration. The massive plant expansion explains everything that some of you are not focusing on. They spent nearly a billion dollars to upsize the plant. Some of you have to wake up to that reality.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:38 PM
  #50  
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yawn . . .
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:43 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
I have already heard reports of the top of the line ZORA reaching 250k according to one that is close to the C8. I've always thought that 200k would be the top limit but apparently not. If this is accurate then my ME + FE duo concept makes even more sense. Remember, they didn't triple the square footage of the Bowling Green plant to still build only one configuration. The massive plant expansion explains everything that some of you are not focusing on. They spent nearly a billion dollars to upsize the plant. Some of you have to wake up to that reality.
You don't do a massive overhaul on plant size increase to plan on producing a drastically lower amount of excessively high-dollar cars. That's nonsense. A 200-250k Chevrolet will do worse in the market than the NSX, which has done dreadfully poor.

The Corvette will be continue to be produced in the same manner as it is today, except it will be mid-engine.

Last edited by C7pimp; 01-30-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:49 PM
  #52  
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If not a FE and a ME Corvette, why was the Bowling Green plant expanded so much? GM certainly doesn't need all that space just for a ME Corvette. I believe that eventually there will be 2 versions of the Corvette, a front engine and a mid engine. I also think the mid will be more expensive than the front by at least $20,000 base.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:51 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
yawn . . .
I would expect that response from an out of touch bureaucrat sitting in his lazyboy.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:55 PM
  #54  
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I think the chance of revealing a 2020 FE C8 and a 2020 ME C8 together are pretty much slim and none. The C8 is going to be a ME Corvette and the front engine Corvette is going away!
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:15 PM
  #55  
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M8 release, along with continued C7 production. There are still people purchasing C7s who will not like the M8, and the C7 is still a very capable platform. Why lose these sales?

Also, the existing ZR1 will probably be faster than the first-year M8. Having two configurations isn't such a weird idea. Porsche offers both mid-engine and rear-engine sports cars covering a very wide price range.

Last edited by Warp Factor; 01-30-2019 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:16 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
I've always thought that only having a ME would absolutely crater the existing C7 upper eschelon of ZO6 and ZR1 values. Particularly if the C8 ME started at 65k-70k. It makes no sense to reduce prior Corvette valuations by bringing the ME price down to where the C7 currently sits.
Why would a base model ME car crater the value of the C7 ZR1? I would assume that the people buying the ZR1 are buying it for performance, and the performance of a $65-70k base model would be nowhere near the performance of a C7 ZR1.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:42 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Randy Miller View Post
Why would a base model ME car crater the value of the C7 ZR1? I would assume that the people buying the ZR1 are buying it for performance, and the performance of a $65-70k base model would be nowhere near the performance of a C7 ZR1.
Because people typically do not trade down.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:48 PM
  #58  
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Negative One Divided by Zero percent
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:58 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
Having two configurations isn't such a weird idea. Porsche offers both mid-engine and rear-engine sports cars covering a very wide price range.
As well as a FE model.
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Old 01-30-2019, 04:01 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
Having two configurations isn't such a weird idea. Porsche offers both mid-engine and rear-engine sports cars covering a very wide price range.
So would Chevrolet in a world with only an ME Corvette. 911 is to Corvette as Porsche is to Chevrolet. What was your SAT score?

Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 04:19 PM.
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