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Your post is all over the place here, and I'm not sure what you mean by any of it. Ultimately it doesn't matter what's changing and how fast it's changing. What mattered in my specific post was addressing the cost to engineer the car and its powertrain. That cost has historically been offset by GMT. We wouldn't have had the LS1 without GMT paying for it. Same with the LS2. Same with the LT1. There's nothing to indicate the same won't also apply to whatever is powering C8.
But I've already gone over this in the powertrain thread. :-)
Yep, but you raised the issue of trucks and I was showing the largest selling Chevy Truck (585,000 Silverado's in 2018) has a 2.7 Liter double overhead cam, turbo engine in 2019! (Sure there are still other options but their volume is easily controlled with price- unrelated to cost; GM's corporate mpg cost is the issue.) My point is large cid, NA 6.2 Liter engines are quickly on the way out, for efficiency reasons. Forget the sunk development or production facility cost of the product what about what was invested in the 2.7 Liter engine going into the Silverado? There will be many more of those sold/year than Vettes.
GM made the decision on what engine would be in the C8 years ago. No doubt in my mind at some point it would be the Blackwing or variant. Although my pure speculation, one reason the C8 is delayed could be they are concerned about bad press so wil introduce several planed variants together. Jalopnik is known to sensationalize with negative reports, i.e they could say;
"GM introduces their halo mid engine C8 Corvette with an old technology pushrod 6.2 Liter 500 hp engine while the Italian Alfa offers a modern 2.9 Liter engine with 5 more horses at 505 hp. In addition, Alfa says it is adding a 141 hybrid for a total of 645 hp in their 4 door sports sedan. It uses otherwise wasted braking energy to charge a small battery and improve mpg." They could add, "And the Ford GT, their mid engine offering, currently beating Corvette on the race track has a 3.5 Liter engine producing 647 hp!'
That would get picked up by CNN and then Social Media- an embarrassment to Mary Barra! Just Sayn!
Just some random thought on transmissions to plug into the thread. Currently drive a 8ZF & a TKO600 5MT daily. Used to drive a 7DCT daily. Memory is fading on the DCT but it was/is my personal favorite. Nothing to do with what is better etc. MT is more fun but day in day out driving I liked the DCT.
Now comes the wrinkle. BMW has been a major holdout in continuing to offer MT transmissions. It has taken a turn is is starting to dry them up. The new M5 is a ZF8 & I believe the M8 is also. The bread & butter 3 series has lost, in 2019, its MT for a 8ZF only transmission choice.
The M2 is the only car they have definitely said will continue to have an MT. Here is the thing, they have now made statements that the 8ZF is good enough, quick enough & are also deleting the DCT from most of their lines. Its my understanding some other German manufactures who soak up a lot of the DCT volume are also making similar moves.
Will this leave the FORD/GM Tremec DCT an outlier?
True that. The ZF8 TC transmission when tuned correctly is so good, that it's pretty hard to find a performance difference between it and the best DCT on the market today (PDK). I've owned both, and it's a complete coin flip as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, for track duty, there may be a reason the PDK/DCT is a better choice, and cooling may be one reason.
Will this leave the FORD/GM Tremec DCT an outlier?
Yep ZF has been the high hp capable trans supplier choice in Europe (although if I recall correctly, my '93 Vette had a ZF.)
Tremic bought a European DCT company several years ago and have used whatever they had in technology. Perhaps they make products for smaller hp cars there but it's my understanding the C8 DCT will be built in Mexico. The recent Trade Agreement with Mexico (assuming it's approved) will give them an economic edge. That would limit the market for the DCT (transaxle) to the C8. They showed the front engine version, like for the Camaro, in Detroit. But Tremic also makes truck transmissions in the plant
Yep, but you raised the issue of trucks and I was showing the largest selling Chevy Truck (585,000 Silverado's in 2018) has a 2.7 Liter double overhead cam, turbo engine in 2019! (Sure there are still other options but their volume is easily controlled with price- unrelated to cost; GM's corporate mpg cost is the issue.) My point is large cid, NA 6.2 Liter engines are quickly on the way out, for efficiency reasons. Forget the sunk development or production facility cost of the product what about what was invested in the 2.7 Liter engine going into the Silverado? There will be many more of those sold/year than Vettes.
GM made the decision on what engine would be in the C8 years ago. No doubt in my mind at some point it would be the Blackwing or variant. Although my pure speculation, one reason the C8 is delayed could be they are concerned about bad press so wil introduce several planed variants together. Jalopnik is known to sensationalize with negative reports, i.e they could say;
"GM introduces their halo mid engine C8 Corvette with an old technology pushrod 6.2 Liter 500 hp engine while the Italian Alfa offers a modern 2.9 Liter engine with 5 more horses at 505 hp. In addition, Alfa says it is adding a 141 hybrid for a total of 645 hp in their 4 door sports sedan. It uses otherwise wasted braking energy to charge a small battery and improve mpg." They could add, "And the Ford GT, their mid engine offering, currently beating Corvette on the race track has a 3.5 Liter engine producing 647 hp!'
That would get picked up by CNN and then Social Media- an embarrassment to Mary Barra! Just Sayn!
That's a very intriguing and interesting scenario---not all unlikely either. Good thinking thru the possibilities.
And yes, your '93 did have a ZF manual, as did many of that gen's up thru the end, '96.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 03-19-2019 at 09:48 PM.
Yep, but you raised the issue of trucks and I was showing the largest selling Chevy Truck (585,000 Silverado's in 2018) has a 2.7 Liter double overhead cam, turbo engine in 2019! (Sure there are still other options but their volume is easily controlled with price- unrelated to cost; GM's corporate mpg cost is the issue.) My point is large cid, NA 6.2 Liter engines are quickly on the way out, for efficiency reasons. Forget the sunk development or production facility cost of the product what about what was invested in the 2.7 Liter engine going into the Silverado? There will be many more of those sold/year than Vettes.
GM made the decision on what engine would be in the C8 years ago. No doubt in my mind at some point it would be the Blackwing or variant. Although my pure speculation, one reason the C8 is delayed could be they are concerned about bad press so wil introduce several planed variants together. Jalopnik is known to sensationalize with negative reports, i.e they could say;
"GM introduces their halo mid engine C8 Corvette with an old technology pushrod 6.2 Liter 500 hp engine while the Italian Alfa offers a modern 2.9 Liter engine with 5 more horses at 505 hp. In addition, Alfa says it is adding a 141 hybrid for a total of 645 hp in their 4 door sports sedan. It uses otherwise wasted braking energy to charge a small battery and improve mpg." They could add, "And the Ford GT, their mid engine offering, currently beating Corvette on the race track has a 3.5 Liter engine producing 647 hp!'
That would get picked up by CNN and then Social Media- an embarrassment to Mary Barra! Just Sayn!
But when it comes to heavy lifting, cubic inches comes to the rescue. GM just raised the bat in their HD pickups by going from 6L to 6.6L and Ford is going to a 7.3L. No puny 2.7L engines with turbo's when you need for work to be done.
But when it comes to heavy lifting, cubic inches comes to the rescue. GM just raised the bat in their HD pickups by going from 6L to 6.6L and Ford is going to a 7.3L. No puny 2.7L engines with turbo's when you need for work to be done.
So true, agree 100! So sick of the Euro-wennie vest pocket motors that you have to run like a chainsaw to get any power out of them
Although things may change as proposed by the current admin, cars and light trucks operate under stricter CAFE standards than HD trucks. Thus, manufacturers have more flexibility in terms of going with larger displacement engines and meeting CAFE targets since HD trucks are segregated from the rest of their fleets.
But when it comes to heavy lifting, cubic inches comes to the rescue. GM just raised the bat in their HD pickups by going from 6L to 6.6L and Ford is going to a 7.3L. No puny 2.7L engines with turbo's when you need for work to be done.
No way a Kenworth hallin Logs, a Cab-over Pete with a Reefer on or a Jimmy hallin Hogs are goina use an L4!
"GM introduces their halo mid engine C8 Corvette with an old technology pushrod 6.2 Liter 500 hp engine while the Italian Alfa offers a modern 2.9 Liter engine with 5 more horses at 505 hp. In addition, Alfa says it is adding a 141 hybrid for a total of 645 hp in their 4 door sports sedan. It uses otherwise wasted braking energy to charge a small battery and improve mpg." They could add, "And the Ford GT, their mid engine offering, currently beating Corvette on the race track has a 3.5 Liter engine producing 647 hp!'
That would get picked up by CNN and then Social Media- an embarrassment to Mary Barra! Just Sayn![/QUOTE]
That's a very intriguing and interesting scenario---not all unlikely either. Good thinking thru the possibilities.
And yes, your '93 did have a ZF manual, as did many of that gen's up thru the end, '96.
Thanks. Yep Jalopnik has not been a friend of GM. Like much of the "news" today it's the negative that gets the headlines and accuracy has nothing to do how they "report."
I thought my '88 Doug Nash old beefy 4 speed was fun with it's electrically operated overdrive in the tailshaft that could be engaged in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th with a button on top of the shifter! Occasionally would split shift and use all 7 unique fairy well spaced gears for fun BUT mostly it was 1st through 4th then 4th overdrive.
I do think the current lt5 will be in whatever corvette they make for 2020 and 2021. I'm not saying that they wont put a 4 valve engine in the car at some point but i don't think they would have had done a new blower etc. for the lt5 for 1 year of limited production.
Unless they are putting it in the Camaros for a few years to come.
If BGA were to build a second car, I was thinking it'd be the leaked Caddy 2-door, but that's apparently on the alpha platform so I don't see them producing that at BGA as a unibody car is very different from the Corvette perimeter frame.
^^^
This is a ME Leaked Caddy! May have been if Cadillac didn't get into sales and profit trouble! Folks are not buying big sedans. Not sure how many will buy a high priced, luxury version of the C8?
Well younger parents with younger families are not buying a Caddy like that but once the kids are out of college...... I think more 50-70 year olds are buying performance sedans these days. A Caddy like that could reignite the performance sedan market.
All thou now these basement dwellers leach off the parents well into their 30's these days. Its the needy, lazy generation. The ignorant lazy pussified generation is being molded in colleges right now. And subscription based self driving cars that you don't buy and only pay for how much you use it is the sad future for this lazy ***** generation. They are not going to want to drive the car, after all you could get into an accident and get hurt. If you don't have to have any responsibility why have it.
The term "automobile" is going to have a whole new meaning very soon folks. GM is going to drive the market in this direction. An electric motor/generator and a bunch of fancy clutches on each wheel, how exciting.
^^^
This is a ME Leaked Caddy! May have been if Cadillac didn't get into sales and profit trouble! Folks are not buying big sedans. Not sure how many will buy a high priced, luxury version of the C8?
03-17-2019, 04:42 PM
No way a Kenworth hallin Logs, a Cab-over Pete with a Reefer on or a Jimmy hallin Hogs are goina use an L4! 
