What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?
01-30-2019, 09:32 AM
#21
Lately, we are getting verified info on a revised C7 front engined Corvette with a new ordering code for the 2020 model year. I've always determined from various sources that we had a Y1XX and Y2XX internal code which stands for Y1XX=C7 front engine Corvette and Y2XX=C8 front engine Corvette. We've also learned that the internal code ZERV= C8 mid engined ZORA. I've always thought that we would have both FE and ME C8's going forward to satisfy all prior Corvette owners and creating a new clientele for the upscale ZORA. Since the new Bowling Green Plant has been tripled in size from the plant of a few years ago, it is clear that they have expanded the plant to build both lines easily. I can easily see a revised C7 FE Corvette into a C8 FE Corvette with all new body panels, Interior, LT2 engine, updated and enhanced components that could carry on the lower bandwidth price of 65k to 150k for the front engine lineup. Additionally, I can see a C8 ME Zora Line that could have a 85k to 200k+ bandwidth that would expand the Corvette market with new potentially International clientele without affecting the traditional Corvette buyer.
I've always thought that only having a ME would absolutely crater the existing C7 upper eschelon of ZO6 and ZR1 values. Particularly if the C8 ME started at 65k-70k. It makes no sense to reduce prior Corvette valuations by bringing the ME price down to where the C7 currently sits. Ferrari would never do such backhanded pricing to cut the throat of their higher end cars. Corvette marketing easily understands this and will protect the recent ZR1 owners from having their brand new ZR1 devalued. Hence, I think there's a likelyhood of GM revealing both C8 FE and C8 ME ZORA at the same time to eliminate the confusion going on now in the forums. Doing a double reveal will position both configurations where we forum members can now make informed and logical pricing decisions without the massive confusion thats going on right now.
Also, the current nomenclature will remain FE= Stingray, Grand Sport, ZO6, ZR1 and the ME= ZORA with a few additional model iterations ( ie. ZORA, ZORA GT, ZORA S, ZORA RS, etc.). GM surely would not pirate the traditional names for a entirely new configuration of Corvette. ZORA is a model, not an entirely new Corvette lineup. I also think both C8 FE and C8 ME will be left hand and right hand drives to further service the International Market. Having both configurations will eliminate the chaos.
I've always thought that only having a ME would absolutely crater the existing C7 upper eschelon of ZO6 and ZR1 values. Particularly if the C8 ME started at 65k-70k. It makes no sense to reduce prior Corvette valuations by bringing the ME price down to where the C7 currently sits. Ferrari would never do such backhanded pricing to cut the throat of their higher end cars. Corvette marketing easily understands this and will protect the recent ZR1 owners from having their brand new ZR1 devalued. Hence, I think there's a likelyhood of GM revealing both C8 FE and C8 ME ZORA at the same time to eliminate the confusion going on now in the forums. Doing a double reveal will position both configurations where we forum members can now make informed and logical pricing decisions without the massive confusion thats going on right now.
Also, the current nomenclature will remain FE= Stingray, Grand Sport, ZO6, ZR1 and the ME= ZORA with a few additional model iterations ( ie. ZORA, ZORA GT, ZORA S, ZORA RS, etc.). GM surely would not pirate the traditional names for a entirely new configuration of Corvette. ZORA is a model, not an entirely new Corvette lineup. I also think both C8 FE and C8 ME will be left hand and right hand drives to further service the International Market. Having both configurations will eliminate the chaos.
01-30-2019, 09:39 AM
#22
Instructor
A 25% dip in YOY sales is losing money. Almost 7,000 cars lost.
It's not an opinion, it's fact.
01-30-2019, 10:08 AM
#23
Scenario two: The FE will be done. The 8th generation of Corvette will be mid engine and that's it. In this case GM goes all in with the new platform. Personally, I don't see where it makes much sense to market this "all new" Corvette that has been 50+ years in the dreaming, and then fall back and say, "but we'll keep making the same old Corvette, just in case you don't like this one." Now, this case is talking about the idea that they just keep making the C7 as it is and roll out the ME at the same price point. This case would just not instill a lot of confidence that the new Corvette is all that great. If the ME is the C8, then that's all they will make, and C7, and the FE as we know it, will have it's place in the archives.
The only time any manufacturer typically produces an older platform alongside a new platform is in transition from the outgoing model's niche special edition to the new incoming model. Examples would be the 2014 CTS-V to 2014 CTS and the Ferrari F12 TDF to the 812 Superfast. The new model reflects the best of the outgoing model and then introduces better everything on top of it. The reason going mid engine is to improve Corvette with the inherent benefits of balance and putting the power down.
Imagine the performance, usability and sex appeal the new mid engine Corvette is going to have, and now imagine it sitting in a showroom next to a year old C7. It will not be a viable option in most buyer's eyes.
In my opinion it does not make sense to produce anything concurrently with the C8 except for maybe some ZR1's.
01-30-2019, 10:39 AM
#24
To answer the original poster's question. .SLIM and NONE
01-30-2019, 10:40 AM
#25
Drifting
Zero
01-30-2019, 10:43 AM
#26
I think if there was any real chance of a new or refreshed FE car to live next to the ME car we would be seeing FE test mules running around.
01-30-2019, 11:02 AM
#27
Le Mans Master
Was the transition to C5 that dramatic or controversial or was it marketings idea? Seems like it shouldn't have been controversial, pop up headlights, golf clubs, at least oval brake lights, NA V8 but they did drop the clamshell front from the previous gen and trans moved to the back. Well the 90s were sorta weird.
PC
PC
01-30-2019, 11:15 AM
#29
Good speculations. I am in the FE + ME camp as I really think the ME will be positioned as yet another new choice within a distinguished brand. Yes, MY19 may have been a slower year but still came on top in the segment. I don't see how an Audi R8 (an ME BTW) keeps going at less than 1000 units per year BUT Corvette calls the quits on the FE with 22K units.
My2C
My2C
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01-30-2019, 11:15 AM
#30
OP continues to publish the same prediction in yet another new thread based upon flimsy evidence on a regular cycle here every month or so. What he says in this OP is completely redundant with the same thing he's been saying in a half a dozen other threads for months now.
I've previously engaged regularly providing a counterpoint to his predictions based upon marketing logic, past successful marketing strategy, GM Board behavior, and the total absence of verifiable meaningful information. It's all reading tea leaves stuff. I'm not wasting my time here doing that anymore.
In closing, while it's always possible for GM to implement a terribly risky, dual-model Corvette strategy, logic, past practice, manufacturing logistics, and the limited market for 2-seater sports cars predicts otherwise. Having said that, companies do sometimes make very stupid decisions.
I've previously engaged regularly providing a counterpoint to his predictions based upon marketing logic, past successful marketing strategy, GM Board behavior, and the total absence of verifiable meaningful information. It's all reading tea leaves stuff. I'm not wasting my time here doing that anymore.
In closing, while it's always possible for GM to implement a terribly risky, dual-model Corvette strategy, logic, past practice, manufacturing logistics, and the limited market for 2-seater sports cars predicts otherwise. Having said that, companies do sometimes make very stupid decisions.
Last edited by Foosh; 01-30-2019 at 11:29 AM.
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01-30-2019, 11:19 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
I've said it before and I'll reiterate: the only way I think you'll see both is if there are two different models. I cannot see both being marketed under "Corvette" at the same time, short of a very limited, one year production special ME version.
Another thing to think about: I think someone above said that GM sells about 20k Corvettes, and quickly bouncing through Corvsport it seems to be that way every generation past the initial rush. When you have effectively two different cars, the market probably isn't going to expand so both are selling 20k, is it profitable for GM to be selling two different two seat sports cars at 10k units a year?
Lastly, if the ME is some Halo car, a la the GT, do you really want to have your buyers dropping better than a quarter million dollars to have to differentiate to their friends that their new car is not the $60k, affordable to all Corvette, but rather than some special edition?
Another thing to think about: I think someone above said that GM sells about 20k Corvettes, and quickly bouncing through Corvsport it seems to be that way every generation past the initial rush. When you have effectively two different cars, the market probably isn't going to expand so both are selling 20k, is it profitable for GM to be selling two different two seat sports cars at 10k units a year?
Lastly, if the ME is some Halo car, a la the GT, do you really want to have your buyers dropping better than a quarter million dollars to have to differentiate to their friends that their new car is not the $60k, affordable to all Corvette, but rather than some special edition?
01-30-2019, 11:32 AM
#32
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JerryU (01-30-2019)
01-30-2019, 11:34 AM
#33
Melting Slicks
Was the transition to C5 that dramatic or controversial or was it marketings idea? Seems like it shouldn't have been controversial, pop up headlights, golf clubs, at least oval brake lights, NA V8 but they did drop the clamshell front from the previous gen and trans moved to the back. Well the 90s were sorta weird.
PC
PC
Also... the Corvette was dead. There was never supposed to be a C5 but it managed to live on (documented in the book). So it was an exciting time for Corvette fans. Another thing is all the fans that read the book learned way more about the development process than they ever knew before. This meant they knew more about the car than they ever did. It was just an exciting time around the hobby. And all that fed the fire into the 50th anniversary celebration which was HUGE.
So... back to the matter at hand... I wouldn't be surprised to see an early refresh of the C7 to come out alongside the mid engine. The C5 run wasn't terribly long and it had a wave of fury behind it. The C6 run was long because the economy blew. I'd think a mid cycle refresh of the C7 would be timely now and would massively help the supply/demand of the mid engine. It will give people a true choice on new option 1 or new option 2 and is probably necessary to spark sales of the front engine car.
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01-30-2019, 11:39 AM
#34
Safety Car
The 4th gen vette was old, dating back to really 1983, and fans of the car were waiting for the new Corvette. There ended up being a great marketing in the release of "All Corvettes are Red"... a book documenting the development of the new Corvette. The book was to be released with the car's release and it had a sleeve that masked the picture of the new Corvette. This is when the whole "C" terms came out. IMO the marketing of the book making the C5 a huge deal was an accident. In my guess GM told the author he couldn't release the book/pics until the car came out and the sleeve was done so he could market the book... but it ended up getting average people interested in the car. My sister for example couldn't have cared less about the release of a new Corvette but when she saw the advertising for the book she was hooked and just HAD to see the picture. I think she was more excited than I was when the book came in...
Also... the Corvette was dead. There was never supposed to be a C5 but it managed to live on (documented in the book). So it was an exciting time for Corvette fans. Another thing is all the fans that read the book learned way more about the development process than they ever knew before. This meant they knew more about the car than they ever did. It was just an exciting time around the hobby. And all that fed the fire into the 50th anniversary celebration which was HUGE.
So... back to the matter at hand... I wouldn't be surprised to see an early refresh of the C7 to come out alongside the mid engine. The C5 run wasn't terribly long and it had a wave of fury behind it. The C6 run was long because the economy blew. I'd think a mid cycle refresh of the C7 would be timely now and would massively help the supply/demand of the mid engine. It will give people a true choice on new option 1 or new option 2 and is probably necessary to spark sales of the front engine car.
Also... the Corvette was dead. There was never supposed to be a C5 but it managed to live on (documented in the book). So it was an exciting time for Corvette fans. Another thing is all the fans that read the book learned way more about the development process than they ever knew before. This meant they knew more about the car than they ever did. It was just an exciting time around the hobby. And all that fed the fire into the 50th anniversary celebration which was HUGE.
So... back to the matter at hand... I wouldn't be surprised to see an early refresh of the C7 to come out alongside the mid engine. The C5 run wasn't terribly long and it had a wave of fury behind it. The C6 run was long because the economy blew. I'd think a mid cycle refresh of the C7 would be timely now and would massively help the supply/demand of the mid engine. It will give people a true choice on new option 1 or new option 2 and is probably necessary to spark sales of the front engine car.
PC
01-30-2019, 11:52 AM
#35
This... there has been zero FE development spy photos; none. Some think GM is doing FE development in undisguised C7s but we haven't seen those either. Some thing GM has an Area 51 proving ground, but again... the cars have to leave that area for real world validation. We've seen zero. They'd be going through the same process as the ME car much like when we saw the ME mule testing along side the ZR1 mules.
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jefnvk (01-30-2019)
01-30-2019, 11:56 AM
#36
Melting Slicks
Another thing to think about: I think someone above said that GM sells about 20k Corvettes, and quickly bouncing through Corvsport it seems to be that way every generation past the initial rush. When you have effectively two different cars, the market probably isn't going to expand so both are selling 20k, is it profitable for GM to be selling two different two seat sports cars at 10k units a year?
Point is, you can't just assume that the 20k number is the limit, Chevy could be looking past that and hoping to attract new buyers.
Lastly, if the ME is some Halo car, a la the GT, do you really want to have your buyers dropping better than a quarter million dollars to have to differentiate to their friends that their new car is not the $60k, affordable to all Corvette, but rather than some special edition?
What you are saying is really only a problem if the cars are identical. Which would be unlikely.
Last edited by vndkshn; 01-30-2019 at 11:56 AM.
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tooold2race (01-30-2019)
01-30-2019, 11:59 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
This... there has been zero FE development spy photos; none. Some think GM is doing FE development in undisguised C7s but we haven't seen those either. Some thing GM has an Area 51 proving ground, but again... the cars have to leave that area for real world validation. We've seen zero. They'd be going through the same process as the ME car much like when we saw the ME mule testing along side the ZR1 mules.
I doubt GM would launch TWO new cars at the same time anyway. At most it would be a refreshed C7 with more power, maybe new gearbox, interior, etc alongside the ME car. Launching two completely new cars at the same time would be suicide.
01-30-2019, 12:00 PM
#39
01-30-2019, 12:13 PM
#40
Melting Slicks<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/3k-4k.gif" border="0">
If any of the mules had sported bigger brakes and tires, you might be able to make a case for limited run of ultra performance ME being built alongside FE. This hasn’t been the case with mules that have been widely photographed.
Last edited by Steve Snake Driver; 01-30-2019 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Correct phone auto spelling