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Unless it is literally a one man operation, it is very rare that any person one would do all those things. Technical leads don't procure tooling. Plant supervisors don't negotiate contracts. Sales people doesn't set up new manufacturing locations. Designers don't audit supply chains.
But I'm just a mid level validation engineer who has worked for two Tier I suppliers, so I probably don't know much about how any of this works.
But I was an engineering manager that had engineers(manufacturing/industrial/plant) working for me that I managed(they did most of the day to day on the plant floor, etc). And I worked for three major manufacturers including one that was UAW(hint, hint) during my career.
I was responsible for those operations in three different manufacturing plants(including one in Mexico). Even for two other plants that I did not have direct responsibility for, I did do some work for them if they were behind schedule.
I was also responsible for the corporate cost reduction program, and had dotted line responsibility for people from virtually every department(sales, engineering, marketing, purchasing agents, production, etc). I managed it, I didn't do the day to day legwork. Once a month I would have our company plane fly in those people from the other plants and have an eight hour meeting(lunch catered in so we didn't stop working). Then I wrote a comprehensive report to the company president after each monthly meeting.
I never claimed that I did all that work singlehanded. I delegated to those that worked for me, both solid line and dotted line. Now if a bunch of projects were nearing completion at the same time, I would take on some of the day to day work, to keep everything on schedule. That's a necessity when you are supplying products to several dozen companies(AKA customers that have to keep their assembly lines on schedule, etc).
Hell, even the manager of your local MacDonald's has people working for him. He doesn't run the store by himself, waiting on customers, frying fries, making burgers, cleaning the rest rooms, etc. He knows how to delegate. to those that report to him. That's his job. To manage the store, not do every bit of the work required to operate the store..
Actually, that's a pretty old business concept. I'm surprised that you have not heard of it.
If true why no spy shots of new FE C8 driving around?
If the new FE is basically a cosmetic change(new body panels and some changes to the interior) to the existing C7 to keep tooling costs down, but planning a get another 4-5 years out of the existing C7 platform, but not touching the chassis and drivetrain, then why do you need a bunch of camouflaged cars running around.
They can change to looks of the FE from the current C7 Stingray, yet maintain the same performance level as the current C7,and that would induce more customers to buy, as most people buy the Corvette for it's looks. I bet a bunch of people would be happy with a new design Corvette but with the existing 460 HP LT1 engine and manual transmission. .
It's been an industry standard for decades to do periodic styling updates to a car, but not redesign every ******' bolt on the car, to get people to trade in their old car and drive home a new redesigned exterior/interior car. Hell, the outgoing 1954 Chevrolet used the same front suspension from 1937. It wasn't until 1955 that Chevrolet went to ball joints in the front suspension, even though they had done a bunch of exterior changes to the Chevrolet from 1937 through 1954. The poor Corvette continued with the antique front suspension from the 1952 Chevrolet through 1962. The Corvette didn't get a modern front suspension until 1963.
I don’t think the enlargement of the plant has anything to do with one or two Vettes being built. An ME and an FE can be built on the same assembly line. No additional space needed.
I can can see another line for something else, but not Vette related. One problem would be finding workers for another line.
When GM started working of the plant expansion project, they met with the state of Kentucky. Kentucky agreed to give GM a tax abatement if GM would add another 270 workers to the Bowling Green plant. GM agree to that requirement.
Now why would GM agree to spend nearly a billion dollars to build a huge expansion to the exiting plant, then agree to increase it's workforce by 28%, if they were planning to continue to do business as usual, except relocate the engine in the car and try and get a better paint job. What are those additional 270 people going to be doing all day? Plus I would think that if they are planning on building just ME cars at the same production level(~33,000 annually), then I would suspect that the price of the ME would have to be increased quite a bit to pay for the plant expansion and the 270 additional employees that are sitting in the break room all day, playing solitaire.
Additionally, GM recently agreed to lease 300,000 square feet of space in Bowling Green(away from the current plant) to house "suppliers" operations. Sure sounds if something more than moving the engine to the space behind the river is in the works for GM in Bowling Green..
The C8 FE “Corvette”. Base price $60,000.
A ME “Zora”. Base price $100,000.
I may be wrong.
Yeah, 100k with skinny tires and small brakes.
Yep they will make >3 unique models in Bowling Green - BUT all ME's!
This Camaro idea may be correct, as they were selling 70,000 to 80,000/year. They are made in two plants in the US and assembled in several overseas. A plant to make unit body cars is significantly different than vehicles with a frame! Resistance spot welding robots can 'smash together' sheet metal and weld it at the same time. The formed panels don't have to have zero gaps before welding! That is NOT how frame based vehicles are made. Whatever the high performance Camaro will be called, it will be built in one or more of those plants, like most assembly plants making unit body cars!
Bowling Green is a bit unique. Some years ago, for example, we supplied ~150 Microprocessor Based Pulse MIG welders to Dana (a Tier 1 supplier at the time) who built the Ford 150 truck frame. Most were for arc welding robots but a number were for manual welders adding frame members to what came from the robot line or where part fit-up variations required manual welding. These were shipped to a Ford Assembly line. At that time the aluminum Z06 fame came from a sub supplier!
That is what Bowling Green now does inside the plant (watch the many video's.) Recall touring an automotive assembly plant in South Korea where they had various models coming down the assembly line, a 2 door followed by a 4 door with different size tires, engines, etc on each! There was no arc welding in that plant as there is little if any in most assembly plants!
IMO, the C8 protypes seen in German, as you note, with their small brakes and somewhat anemic 305 section width tires is the base C8 that will sell for not much more than the C7 base car.
Then there will be a Ford GT killer performance model variant (not with all the interior amenities) with a high hp, double overhead cam, 4 valves/cylinder, twin turbo engine with carbon brakes, wider tires, fatter fenders and different aero (probably retractable as seen in GM patients.)
As was speculated some years ago a variant that will be a "Luxury Cruiser Version." In fact, someone who appeared to know, said the project was turned over to Cadillac engineers. Probably would have been a Caddy if they had not screwed up their product line profitability. That model could be the base C8 with what we often hear as desired from Forum members who never get close to 1 "g" lateral acceleration or brake so their body presses against the shoulder belt! It will have softer all-season tires, ~150 lbs of noise insulation, "real leather" on more that the seating surface of the top model, a high end stereo (as you will be able to hear it with the properly added noise insulation,) and soft suspension!
Then a more Eco friendly model with, my hope, a ~500 hp small cid, double overhead cam, twin turbo gas engine combined with a ~150 hp F1 KERS type system. In F1 that motor/generator, tied directly to the gas engine or drivetrain, only weighs 70 lbs, including it's 30 lb battery. It recharges the battery when braking.
The C8 FE “Corvette”. Base price $60,000.
A ME “Zora”. Base price $100,000.
I may be wrong.
Why is the Bowling Green Plant double the size it was two years ago? And, no...it’s not just a “state of the art new paint shop”.
(The red box shows the main entrance in both photos, just for reference)
Thanks Azferrari for your logic. Check this out.
I got on Google Earth and calculated the square footage of the original roof (942,160 sq. ft) and the new buildings roof (802,380 sq. ft.) using the Google Earth Ruler Line Measure function. It is reasonably accurate. The Bowling Green Corvette Plant information page has always indicated that the square footage of the old plant as 950,000 sq. ft. That aligns very closely with the 942,160 sq. ft. above since there are a few elevated second story office areas in the old building to make up the other 8,000 sq. ft. Gallagher-Kaiser Construction Co. of Troy, Michigan was the General Contractor on the new addition of the Plant. They have indicated a 897,000 sq. ft. on their website(see link below). Check out the photo spread of the new plant interior on the link below. Clearly they have not indicated the subterranean lower levels under the main area of the new addition or also the second level of the above grade line structure. There are 2 upper levels clearly shown on the photos during construction(see photos from Corvette Blogger article below). The lower sub grade level appears to be at least 30 feet deep. I did talk to Kai Spande at the Laguna Seca IMSA race a few months ago and he validated that there were up to 4 levels in the new building but 3 levels in some of it. Using my estimates from the roof calculations it seems plausible that the new addition realistically is at least 2 million sq ft of all 4 levels combined and not the 897,000 that is indicated on their stats. That in effect is a tripling of the square footage of the entire plant. I'll bet that GM didn't want to draw attention to the actual real square footage to the public especially us Corvette geeks. I've talked to Gallagher Kaiser as well as another sub-contractor on the job named Walbridge Construction Co. The Walbridge person I talked to indicated 4 levels as well. He even mentioned the new hill that was created by the excess soil from the lower level excavation of the new building. Sure enough, while viewing Google Earth you can see there is a new huge 50-60 foot high mound of soil that shows near the plant.
Using the Google Earth Ruler Line Measurement function the Concrete foundation is 460 feet wide by 1,000 feet long for a total square footage of 460,000 square feet per level. The foundation wall is approximately 30 foot high allowing 2 tall lower levels for a total of 4 levels. There is an additional 2 levels at 342,380 square feet per level at the rest of the new addition.
I mean, or if the base foundation is 460000 sq ft, it could just be this claimed 450000 sq ft paint shop: https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/may/0521-bowling-green.html
Jefnvk, if you read my above post you will see that the new addition and the old plant now totals over 3 million sq. ft. That is now tripled in size. Check out the Corvette Blogger link and you can see the 460,000 sq ft x 4 level main addition. It has two subterranean levels and two above grade levels. There's also the manifold connector building that appears to be two levels above grade at 342,380 sq. ft. The GM Media link dodges the true square footage for obvious reasons. They did not want to let the public know of the massive upsizing of the plant. Even Gallager- Kaiser Corp downplayed it on their website, and they were the General Contractor on the job.
Jefnvk, if you read my above post you will see that the new addition and the old plant now totals over 3 million sq. ft. That is now tripled in size. Check out the Corvette Blogger link and you can see the 460,000 sq ft x 4 level main addition. It has two subterranean levels and two above grade levels. There's also the manifold connector building that appears to be two levels above grade at 342,380 sq. ft. The GM Media link dodges the true square footage for obvious reasons. They did not want to let the public know of the massive upsizing of the plant. Even Gallager- Kaiser Corp downplayed it on their website, and they were the General Contractor on the job.
Maybe they are just going to build everything there!
Jefnvk, if you read my above post you will see that the new addition and the old plant now totals over 3 million sq. ft. That is now tripled in size. Check out the Corvette Blogger link and you can see the 460,000 sq ft x 4 level main addition. It has two subterranean levels and two above grade levels. There's also the manifold connector building that appears to be two levels above grade at 342,380 sq. ft. The GM Media link dodges the true square footage for obvious reasons. They did not want to let the public know of the massive upsizing of the plant. Even Gallager- Kaiser Corp downplayed it on their website, and they were the General Contractor on the job.
You know what? I think I'm getting more enjoyment over having found this forum after buying my Corvette than having the Corvette itself!
I guess if the Corvette plant is going to be as big as those cranking out far higher volume truck and SUV lines, we can expect to see a Corvette based SUV after all!
Having a 300% increase in Plant size is one of the reasons I have stuck with the FE and ME formula for manufacturing both Corvette line ups. Why else would they increase the size of the plant to that size? JoeC5 also has some very interesting info above to corraborate this scenario. Maybe a Corvette SUV as well.
Maybe they are just going to build everything there!
PC
As we have been told the new paint line is much larger. The old one was also the main reason they limited the number of colors that could be tint coat.
They are also building the Caddy Blackwing engine(s) in Bowling Green. That takes room! No doubt a version of that 4.2 Liter 550 hp, 4 valve/cylinder, double overhead cam, twin turbo engine will be in the C8, IMO.
Probably a high hp version will be build there as well for the Ford GT killer variant!
Maybe even a smaller cid variant with less power from a gasoline engine and ~150 hp for a short time from a motor/generator directly linked to the drivetrain (no extra motors needed at the wheels etc) and a small battery similar to what is used in F1! Could get substantially more mg in the EPA required test.
As we have been told the new paint line is much larger. The old one was also the main reason they limited the number of colors that could be tint coat.
They are also building the Caddy Blackwing engine(s) in Bowling Green. That takes room! No doubt a version of that 4.2 Liter 550 hp, 4 valve/cylinder, double overhead cam, twin turbo engine will be in the C8, IMO.
Probably a high hp version will be build there as well for the Ford GT killer variant!
Maybe even a smaller cid variant with less power from a gasoline engine and ~150 hp for a short time from a motor/generator directly linked to the drivetrain (no extra motors needed at the wheels etc) and a small battery similar to what is used in F1! Could get substantially more mg in the EPA required test.
Yep, apparently some of the European car manufacturers are evaluating! GM engineers are smarter!
If you haven't heard Mary Barry is focusing all their engineering on EVs!
Fortunately I sent her the attached and said she was kidding herself thinking she was saving the World as she just pushed the issue to those that generate electric power!
Reminded her that on a trip of the Yangtze river in China I saw mostly coal bins on the shore for several days. They generate 75% of their electricity with coal!
She sent a note back and said they'll give more efficient gasoline engine solutions one more chance!
NOTE FROM BELOW, ABOUT HALF THAT RENEWABLE ENERY BURNS A HYDROCARBON AND PRODUCES CO2
So, there is tons of speculation going around about this possible FE C8, which people are claiming would just be a refresh in the looks department...which would be stupid, but for the sake of argument lets just address the elephant in the room.
NO TEST CARS HAVE BEEN SEEN ANYWHERE!
This is a dead giveaway. People claiming that GM would simply slap some cosmetics on the C7 and call it a C8 obviously have no business acumen whatsoever. First off, the Corvette hasn't has a mid cycle refresh in what? 25 years with the C4? So there's that. Second the Corvette community has basically called the C5 to C6 transition a "refresh" when clearly the C6 was a much better car. It would definitely not be a good PR move to make a tarted up C7 and call it a C8 as the Corvette community would collectively roll their eyes and GM would continue to see the declining FE Corvette sales we already have.
Back to the lack of test cars out and about...a refreshed exterior would still need to be road tested to ensure that it doesn't have weird issues when driving on all manner of road surfaces etc. There's also the odd fact that we have seen in pictures pre-production body panels in the paint shop of the ME C8 which I would think would be much more important to keep a lid on than refreshed panels for the C7. It just doesn't seem possible in this day and age for a company the size of GM to keep something like another generation FE Corvette this secret.
Now there's the possibility that they won't brand the theoretical "next" FE Corvette as a new generation at all and it would simply be a C7.5. Releasing a high end mid engine Corvette alongside this and not calling the ME "The Eighth Generation Corvette" would work...but only as a PR stunt, and one that would leave a seriously sour taste on the tongues of customers that have been dying for a mid engine Corvette...you know, "that sports car that has world beating performance but is actually affordable".
Overall, I don't believe this course of action is going to happen, the size of the plant is a non issue and likely has more to do with creating room for the Corvettes to sit inside a building prior to shipping instead of being subjected to the weather of BG Kentucky while waiting for shipment. As you can see in the satellite images the new factory space takes up half the old staging area and looks to have massive loading bays as well. Just seems like that would explain the size increase more than speculating on Corvette SUV's.
…. the size of the plant is a non issue and likely has more to do with creating room for the Corvettes to sit inside a building prior to shipping instead of being subjected to the weather of BG Kentucky while waiting for shipment. As you can see in the satellite images the new factory space takes up half the old staging area and looks to have massive loading bays as well. Just seems like that would explain the size increase more than speculating on Corvette SUV's.
Interesting point! Got very cold in Bowling Green this past week!. For all those worrying about cracked tires!! Wonder how many tires cracked being delivered Minnesota this past week?
Actually that is a waste of GM cash! Since GM builds no cars for their own inventory, they are all ordered cars by dealers. Dealers don't get billed until after the car ships and is received. Then GM only gets cash after the extended payment terms they provide dealers!
What a waste! When we switched our equipment plant to cellular manufacturing from an MRP driven system (worse way to run a plant) we varied production by manning key cells each day with the correct number of folks to match demand. Perhaps GM needs some extra space to manage manufacturing flow better! Maybe they added some in-process QA to avoid the "quality hold" of finished Vettes we often hear about! In fact recall they did not have enough room in Bowling Green to store cars on QA hold and had to transport them to an off-site holding area. Costly. Cutting in-process and finished goods inventory is a great cash generator!
If the new FE is basically a cosmetic change(new body panels and some changes to the interior) to the existing C7 to keep tooling costs down, but planning a get another 4-5 years out of the existing C7 platform, but not touching the chassis and drivetrain, then why do you need a bunch of camouflaged cars running around.
They can change to looks of the FE from the current C7 Stingray, yet maintain the same performance level as the current C7,and that would induce more customers to buy, as most people buy the Corvette for it's looks. I bet a bunch of people would be happy with a new design Corvette but with the existing 460 HP LT1 engine and manual transmission. .
It's been an industry standard for decades to do periodic styling updates to a car, but not redesign every ******' bolt on the car, to get people to trade in their old car and drive home a new redesigned exterior/interior car. Hell, the outgoing 1954 Chevrolet used the same front suspension from 1937. It wasn't until 1955 that Chevrolet went to ball joints in the front suspension, even though they had done a bunch of exterior changes to the Chevrolet from 1937 through 1954. The poor Corvette continued with the antique front suspension from the 1952 Chevrolet through 1962. The Corvette didn't get a modern front suspension until 1963.
the C5 and C6 didn't receive any (rims and a steering wheel if that counts).
Okay, so here is one more crazy late night "what if" idea from way out in left field...
What if they take the current FE C7 chassis and do more than a mid cycle refresh - say all new body panels, way upscale interior, Blackwing twin turbo DOHC V8 and then slap a Cadillac badge on the car. They built that car on the existing Bowling Green assembly line. They then build the new ME C8 Corvette on a new assembly line in the newly expanded section of the Bowling Green facility.
From the beginning I've maintained both an FE C8 and ME Z1 Zora. Maybe the "Final Edition C7" announced across the pond is the final C7 sold across the pond. Here in USA I think with ALL factors considered we'll have both apples and oranges, FE C8 and ME Z1 because there is a niche for a 2 seat FE car that is NOT a Camaro and there is a niche for a ME car born of Corvette DNA but taken to a higher level of engineering, performance and cost. Camaro has its own loyal following for many good reasons just like Corvette or any brand/model and I can't imagine GM telling the Corvette faithful we hope you will now become a Camaro loyalist because we've changed Corvette to ME design and had a price increase of (fill in whatever number makes you feel good). The Camaro continues to evolve (A10 optioned ZL1 1LE eta February) but will maintain Camaro "muscle car" DNA as before and compete for same hotly contested demographic as before. Corvette continues to evolve with FE C8 and expand Corvette DNA into ME car. Regardless of what we've seen and read it's all subject to being genuine truth, genuine disinformation or something in between. I may be wrong on all counts but I base my best guess on where I've seen money invested (BG) and the catastrophic potential downside of being "all in" on a C8 ME that underwhelms the Corvette faithful at whatever price may be final and eliminates a proven FE 2 seater that's defined generations of a niche it has owned 66 years. I have no desire to debate or try to prove anything because everything I stated is pure opinion based on speculation and the same pictures and/or leaks that we all interpret our own way
Okay, so here is one more crazy late night "what if" idea from way out in left field...
What if they take the current FE C7 chassis and do more than a mid cycle refresh - say all new body panels, way upscale interior, Blackwing twin turbo DOHC V8 ....
02-02-2019, 02:32 AM
It will have softer all-season tires, ~150 lbs of noise insulation, "real leather" on more that the seating surface of the top model, a high end stereo (as you will be able to hear it with the properly added noise insulation,) and soft suspension!
