1Sikstik

Heres my my 2 cents on the C8 speculation forum - If the C7 was rebranded a front engine C8 which I would bet against, then I think the mid engine corvette will be a much higher priced entry point.

JerryU

As Warp Factor noted, "stuffing" a double overhead cam, twin turbo in a low hood, FE sports car won't work! Unless of course it sticks out of the hood like the 871 in his avatar!

There is a limited market for Vettes. In it's worse volume C6 years, 16,000/yr according to Tadge would make it not viable to continue. In todays world ~30,000 looks like a "good volume." Having two, a FE and ME would not increase sales enough to justify the effort, IMO.

The C8 is already designed and ready for release as shown with the prototypes in Germany. It would take years to change that design. Looking at the small brakes, somewhat anemic 305 rear tire width and overall size, that base C8 is NOT a high end Ford GT killer! The C8R will probably be as will a variant they will offer with a more powerful engine, carbon brakes and wider tires/fenders and advance aero! That is not the cars in Germany that look like they will be about C7 prices!

Just Sayn' as Well! We'll soon see.

punky

A guy who quotes a U.S. hating dic like Jeremy Clarkson probably would like a Miata.

jefnvk

I actually cross shopped Miatas with my Corvette, since its intended use was AutoX and track days. The only clear advantage the Corvette ended up winning in? Every Miata I looked at drove through Michigan winters and was nice and rusty, while every Corvette sat in a garage for those same winters.

I really wouldn't be surprised if a higher percentage of Miatas and BRZ saw racing/HPDE type use than Corvettes, if you wanna be triggered some more

Shaka

You don't understand what the 'C' stands for.

punky

Auto X, that's when the rice buckets drive around the little orange cones in a shopping mall parking lot? Sorry Dude but the general consensus about Miatas is a puss car. I hate cars like those.

ltomn

I would like to know when and where Tadge said this?

Zaro Tundov

Heh, that wouldn't surprise me at all. Those cars are relatively inexpensive to race and they're a bundle of fun no matter how fast you go. Maintaining a Corvette racer is expensive and it's most fun to drive at speeds that will kill anyone who doesn't know what he/she is doing.

Foosh

The MX-5 is hardly just an autocross car. Spec Miata is the largest series on the NASA and SCCA circuits, and that is SERIOUS road racing.

Virtually every one of the many professional drivers I've interacted with over the years have said, "if you really want to learn how to drive a car properly on a road racing course, START with a Miata stripped and prepped as a race car." Since it is power-limited it really accentuates the importance of maintaining momentum, proper braking, and proper lines, which are the major factors in posting the fastest lap times.

It is a great car, and the ideal training platform for learning how to drive like a pro.

JHrinsin

Well they found a way a stuff the s/c 4.4L Northstar DOHC (LC3) engine under the hood of the XLR-V. Not sure how the dimensions of these two DOHC V8 engines compare, but its all just guess work and speculation on my part, so it really does not matter.

Also with everyone looking for C8 ME mules, no one has been looking for any refreshed mid cycle C7 mules (since the ZR1 was introduced) so there could be power train mules out there hiding in plain site. Same as there could for said a hybrid ME mules as well. You just never know - even if it was done simply as an engineering exercise farmed out to say a sub contractor.

Also keep in mind with the expansion of Blowing Green facility, something else HAS to have been planned to be assembled there.

jefnvk

Eh, I associate folks who assign cars they don't like to a masculinity scale they find supposedly offensive with being very insecure about their own masculinity. Gotta have a big V8 to compensate, no four bangers for the big man right? Might as well just toss in some racial language in there to prove how tough you really are.

Sorry for thinking that the C7 platform, lightened a bit with a turbo 4 or V6 and selling under $30k could be a hit if you really wanted to keep the platform alive. Chevy should really go back to selling nothing but chrome bumpers and big blocks, so they can die off with all the aging manly men who can't deal with a world not being like it was when they were 17...

Zaro Tundov

There's no need to conjure up a mythical vehicle to explain the BGA expansion. GM moved their Performance Build Center from Wixom to BGA so all the hand built engines will be done at BGA. There is also the new paint shop which takes massive space to properly cure the paint.

jcp911s

Boy, reading this thread, I wonder how some folks actually earned enough money to buy a Corvette.

There is a HUGE difference between "Cost" and "Price". Any engineer understands cost, and any marketer understands "Price" and the two have no mathematical relationship.

For example, the actual "Cost" of a ZR1 vs a Z06 is probably $8-10K of performance parts... ehhh, $450 brake rotors vs $250 on a "base" car, maybe $500 extra for headers vs a Z06. $1,500 for fancy-schmancy wheels... $1K for some bolt-on CF spoilers. A re-programmed Chip, and some badges.

But there are 2,000 dudes who will pay a $70K premium to have the biggest dick in the bar.

Marketing. I'll gladly take credit for loading $50K of free margin on the car.

84 4+3

Yea, I said this like 3 days ago... the dick thing.

Foosh

^ Bingo, and I wonder the same things about much of the stuff I read here..

That's precisely why volume manufacturing is so critical in the Corvette sales model. By building 10s of thousands of base cars and selling them at a lower profit margin, GM can buy components much cheaper, automate a mass production line, and use the majority of the same components on both the lower and the very high profit margin cars (Z06, ZR1). It's the bargain basement model that makes low-volume, high-end, models possible, which sell at substantially larger profit margins, but still undercut the price of the competition by a wide-margin.

That's why the dual FE and ME strategy seems so implausible and so risky to me. It would increase the cost to produce of both cars, and it is a well-documented fact that there is a limited market for 2-seat sports cars.

What do you think the cost of the ZR1 would be if GM were to build it alone as the only Corvette and sell only 2K per year? Obviously, I can't calculate that, but I'd bet a sizable sum it would be well north of $200K. That's the essence of the difference between the exotics and Corvette.

JerryU

I followed the C7 closely as I put money down to get in line to buy one in February 2013! Only one who would define a price of MSRP (whatever it might be!) was Hedrick in Cary NC!

Tadge said in a video, IF the C7 does not see a significant sales increase from the C6 it would be the end of the Corvette! Sorry, did not save that Link.

Can understand the statement when you look at sales:
2012: _14,000
2011: _13,000
2010: _12.000
2009 _17,000
2008: _35,000 (the C6 I had and sold when I bought the C7)
2007:_41,000

Found this February 2013 magazine article where Tadge was interviewed where he says they need to double sales: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...-is-the-chief/

Quoting: Juechter says. "We have to convince younger people that it's a special car." …. Later, he adds, "if we can double where we are today [in sales], we'll be okay. We can pay back our investment, turn a profit, and then the Corvette can continue to exist.''

1SG_Ret

Porsche is a car company, Corvette is a car within the GM line. We will see variations on the theme, but not different themes.

ltomn

That is not correct! I'm attaching a poor quaility photo to this to show just where the sales occurred. While the lion's share of Stingrays were 1LT, it escalates upward dramatically from there.

Warp Factor

Absolutely true. Punky might need to place a very large order for blue pills, after a very experienced driver in a Miata beats him and his Z06 around a race track.

jefnvk

After a few hours, my previous reaction to Punky was probably a bit harsh, but if people want to know why it is hard to get younger folks into Corvettes, attitudes like his don't do a whole lot to help the image of the ownership group of the car. Same thing that takes Woodward Dream Cruise down a few notches for me every year, too many old-timers who will spew to anyone who will listen how it should be for the old American cars whose only modifications can be hot-rodder approved, and all those foreign cars should leave it to the "real" cars. I prefer to love all cars for what they are!

+1. If I get tired of the AutoX and HPDE stuff, and want to get into a proper track car, a Spec Miata is my next likely move.