What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?
03-16-2019, 11:37 PM
#1002
DIdn't say anything about you being removed, just a bunch of posts. Wanna confess how badly you blew up to cause that to happen?
03-16-2019, 11:58 PM
#1003
Pro
I think its very obvious that the size of the addition to the Corvette plant means they are going to build another car there very soon.
Don't be shocked if that plant produces two models of GM cars there next year.
Why does everyone automatically think that the spy photos of these cars running around are a new Corvette or even a Chevy?
I could see a mid engine Caddy coming out of this plant next year. It seems reasonable.
It also seems more fitting for GM to use a Caddy to go into the higher end performance market world wide than a Chevy.
I don't know if Chevrolet would want to take such a risk with a brand like Corvette without testing the waters.
Cadillac is more known to take bigger risks over the years and embrace more radical departures from current production than Chevy.
Theirs only one car that can outshine a Corvette in the GM lineup these days and that's a Caddy.
And if its starting cost is $165,000 it wont have any impact on the Corvette. It might get a few potential ZR-1 buyers to jump another 20k but that's about it.
Don't be shocked if that plant produces two models of GM cars there next year.
Why does everyone automatically think that the spy photos of these cars running around are a new Corvette or even a Chevy?
I could see a mid engine Caddy coming out of this plant next year. It seems reasonable.
It also seems more fitting for GM to use a Caddy to go into the higher end performance market world wide than a Chevy.
I don't know if Chevrolet would want to take such a risk with a brand like Corvette without testing the waters.
Cadillac is more known to take bigger risks over the years and embrace more radical departures from current production than Chevy.
Theirs only one car that can outshine a Corvette in the GM lineup these days and that's a Caddy.
And if its starting cost is $165,000 it wont have any impact on the Corvette. It might get a few potential ZR-1 buyers to jump another 20k but that's about it.
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skank (03-17-2019)
03-17-2019, 05:17 AM
#1004
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
We're waiting for your price estimates on the 32 line items above Foosh. Your homework is due later today. And remember, the Build and Price function is the most accurate estimating tool for you. We want to know the price to us consumers not the cost of that option to GM. The cost of parts or componentry to GM has nothing to do with this discussion. Good Luck.
Last edited by skank; 03-17-2019 at 05:45 AM.
03-17-2019, 05:33 AM
#1005
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
NO, I'm not commenting on and giving creedence to a list of things random people may or may not have talked about that have all been compiled into a random internet posters "must have" list that should be taken as a definitive guide on what will be on the next C8.
Using Porsche resale prices on a transmission from a ~$1M car to guess at GM cost for something that may or may not be in it is a joke. As is thinking the tranny is going to cost two and a half times the engine. Knowing what we sold ECUs to OEMs for at my last job and how much their parts department turned around and sold them for, you're high at $10k. Also take into fact a volume of presumably 200k or better units over the life of the car drives costs down considerably compared to a run of 918. We wouldn't even touch that small of a job at any auto company I've worked for, that would go to a specialty company (or specialty division within the company that deals in high cost low volume parts).
I'm also looking at the prices of things I work on for vehicles priced similar to the Corvette, and can't help but laugh. Forgive me for not pointing them out directly, but I'd prefer people not know too much about what I do nor am I going to give out what would be considered confidential information. Just know there are 4-5 line items that work together as one system that you've overestimated the cost by on the order of tens of times.
I also look at your list and see the same thing stated different ways on multiple lines, presumably all added together for your "Base cost". I.e., lines 4 and 27, and lines 19 and 23, and probably 24 and 31.
Think he was talking about the 4C. Not sure why it never sold well, but I'm also not about to compare what was (un)successful on an obscure Italian/FCA sports car with what will be successful on a well-known Corvette branded car.
Using Porsche resale prices on a transmission from a ~$1M car to guess at GM cost for something that may or may not be in it is a joke. As is thinking the tranny is going to cost two and a half times the engine. Knowing what we sold ECUs to OEMs for at my last job and how much their parts department turned around and sold them for, you're high at $10k. Also take into fact a volume of presumably 200k or better units over the life of the car drives costs down considerably compared to a run of 918. We wouldn't even touch that small of a job at any auto company I've worked for, that would go to a specialty company (or specialty division within the company that deals in high cost low volume parts).
I'm also looking at the prices of things I work on for vehicles priced similar to the Corvette, and can't help but laugh. Forgive me for not pointing them out directly, but I'd prefer people not know too much about what I do nor am I going to give out what would be considered confidential information. Just know there are 4-5 line items that work together as one system that you've overestimated the cost by on the order of tens of times.
I also look at your list and see the same thing stated different ways on multiple lines, presumably all added together for your "Base cost". I.e., lines 4 and 27, and lines 19 and 23, and probably 24 and 31.
Think he was talking about the 4C. Not sure why it never sold well, but I'm also not about to compare what was (un)successful on an obscure Italian/FCA sports car with what will be successful on a well-known Corvette branded car.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1596312478
Last edited by skank; 03-17-2019 at 06:39 AM.
03-17-2019, 07:51 AM
#1006
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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But, we might as well veer off course, this thread has been twisted beyond comprehension.
I don't respond for the few vocal minority posters foolishly justifying in their minds why there will be a FE and ME C8 or those diehards that insist all that is needed for this "halo car" power is an "old tech" 6.2 Liter V8. My posts are NOT for them but for the ~70,000 and ~80,000 silent majority on those respective Threads who have viewed these wandering posts!
Just want folks to feel good about and understand why the ME C8 will have a double overhead cam, 4 valve per cylinder, dual turbo Blackwing engine being built in Bowling Green. It's needed for todays rapidly changing car world! Heck GM even allowed Andy Pilgrim to leak an ME makes room for a hybrid to deliver electric power to the front wheels.
We must have a more efficient ICE and systems or face only EV's! It can be done, albeit with added complexity but more modern systems.
Last edited by JerryU; 03-17-2019 at 07:58 AM.
03-17-2019, 08:31 AM
#1007
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
I think its very obvious that the size of the addition to the Corvette plant means they are going to build another car there very soon.
Don't be shocked if that plant produces two models of GM cars there next year.
Why does everyone automatically think that the spy photos of these cars running around are a new Corvette or even a Chevy?
I could see a mid engine Caddy coming out of this plant next year. It seems reasonable.
It also seems more fitting for GM to use a Caddy to go into the higher end performance market world wide than a Chevy.
I don't know if Chevrolet would want to take such a risk with a brand like Corvette without testing the waters.
Cadillac is more known to take bigger risks over the years and embrace more radical departures from current production than Chevy.
Theirs only one car that can outshine a Corvette in the GM lineup these days and that's a Caddy.
And if its starting cost is $165,000 it wont have any impact on the Corvette. It might get a few potential ZR-1 buyers to jump another 20k but that's about it.
Don't be shocked if that plant produces two models of GM cars there next year.
Why does everyone automatically think that the spy photos of these cars running around are a new Corvette or even a Chevy?
I could see a mid engine Caddy coming out of this plant next year. It seems reasonable.
It also seems more fitting for GM to use a Caddy to go into the higher end performance market world wide than a Chevy.
I don't know if Chevrolet would want to take such a risk with a brand like Corvette without testing the waters.
Cadillac is more known to take bigger risks over the years and embrace more radical departures from current production than Chevy.
Theirs only one car that can outshine a Corvette in the GM lineup these days and that's a Caddy.
And if its starting cost is $165,000 it wont have any impact on the Corvette. It might get a few potential ZR-1 buyers to jump another 20k but that's about it.
Last edited by roadbike56; 03-17-2019 at 08:32 AM.
03-17-2019, 09:10 AM
#1008
Caddy ME will be first?
This is just silly! How can anyone even remotely believe this? So GM will launch a midengine Cadillac sports car with zero historical past sports car success before its flagship Corvette?
There is zero chance of this happening, Cadillac will have to wait! Anyone who is still posting this as viable should be moved to cadillacforum.com
There is zero chance of this happening, Cadillac will have to wait! Anyone who is still posting this as viable should be moved to cadillacforum.com
03-17-2019, 10:23 AM
#1009
Melting Slicks
As to the CAD, cool. How many variants were in there exactly?
And lastly, why no response to me pointing out redundant lines (all of which occured before the options section at 32), and have you yet grasped at the concept when you build a total of 918 DCTs plus some spares, your costs are many times higher per unit than when you're building a quarter million over a product life?
Last edited by jefnvk; 03-17-2019 at 10:24 AM.
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Foosh (03-17-2019)
03-17-2019, 10:23 AM
#1010
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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The Caddy sports car ship sailed when Jon was fired. He wanted a halo sports car for Cadillac. But Caddy sales went in the toilet on his watch. He and Mary didn't see eye to eye and he was shown the door. It's no coincidence that his replacement is a bread and butter, conservative, luxury Cadillac guy who likes SUVs/CUVs, not sports cars. If Cadillac gets a halo sports car it will be down the road after Corvette gets its share of the ME market. Perhaps the 2022 car mentioned in the panel manufacturer's plant expansion document is a Cadillac, but the first ME coming out of BG is a Corvette, take it to the bank.
Could have been an interesting idea to have the 1st ME a Caddy with lots of luxury items and a high price to test at a low volume. But that was when Caddy was riding high!I see there problem is folks aren't buying sedans! Even when at the local BMW dealer getting the wife's SUV serviced, the sales person said SUV's are there bread and butter and sedan sales are well down.
Since there are NO pick-up trucks in Europe, BMW and Mercedes would not understand as well as GM their appeal in the US. 585,000 Silverado's sold in 2018! Guess most Caddy dealers can sell GMC pick-ups but maybe they need a Luxury Caddy short bed high optioned vehicle.
When I picked up my Grand Sport from the Courtesy Delivery Chevy Dealer, their small showroom only had room for two vehicles. Both were highly optioned trucks with stickers higher than want I paid for my Grand Sport! Guess folks can afford them!
Last edited by JerryU; 03-17-2019 at 10:26 AM.
03-17-2019, 10:29 AM
#1011
Melting Slicks
I see there problem is folks aren't buying sedans! Even when at the local BMW dealer getting the wife's SUV serviced, the sales person said SUV's are there bread and butter and sedan sales are well down.
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JerryU (03-17-2019)
03-17-2019, 11:13 AM
#1012
Le Mans Master
Skank,
Why do you think Corvette won't use the LT4 and/or LT5 for the ME?
Seems like it would be much easier than turbos and both engines are reliable, Chevy products with lots of availability. If both the Z06 and Cadillac CTS-V are discontinued next year, there will be a lot of LT4's with no home.
Why do you think Corvette won't use the LT4 and/or LT5 for the ME?
Seems like it would be much easier than turbos and both engines are reliable, Chevy products with lots of availability. If both the Z06 and Cadillac CTS-V are discontinued next year, there will be a lot of LT4's with no home.
03-17-2019, 11:25 AM
#1013
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
ETA:
I just noticed my new badge
Last edited by jvp; 03-17-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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03-17-2019, 03:06 PM
#1014
Melting Slicks
The C7 ZR1 is a limited production vehicle and once the ME starts production, the ZR1 will cease production. The LT5 will go into the ME in order to make it a Porsche killer. The LT5/ME will be the new King of the Hill for everything under $300K.
03-17-2019, 03:16 PM
#1015
As with many posts!
I don't respond for the few vocal minority posters foolishly justifying in their minds why there will be a FE and ME C8 or those diehards that insist all that is needed for this "halo car" power is an "old tech" 6.2 Liter V8. My posts are NOT for them but for the ~70,000 and ~80,000 silent majority on those respective Threads who have viewed these wandering posts!
Just want folks to feel good about and understand why the ME C8 will have a double overhead cam, 4 valve per cylinder, dual turbo Blackwing engine being built in Bowling Green. It's needed for todays rapidly changing car world! Heck GM even allowed Andy Pilgrim to leak an ME makes room for a hybrid to deliver electric power to the front wheels.
We must have a more efficient ICE and systems or face only EV's! It can be done, albeit with added complexity but more modern systems.
I don't respond for the few vocal minority posters foolishly justifying in their minds why there will be a FE and ME C8 or those diehards that insist all that is needed for this "halo car" power is an "old tech" 6.2 Liter V8. My posts are NOT for them but for the ~70,000 and ~80,000 silent majority on those respective Threads who have viewed these wandering posts!
Just want folks to feel good about and understand why the ME C8 will have a double overhead cam, 4 valve per cylinder, dual turbo Blackwing engine being built in Bowling Green. It's needed for todays rapidly changing car world! Heck GM even allowed Andy Pilgrim to leak an ME makes room for a hybrid to deliver electric power to the front wheels.
We must have a more efficient ICE and systems or face only EV's! It can be done, albeit with added complexity but more modern systems.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-17-2019 at 03:17 PM.
03-17-2019, 03:20 PM
#1016
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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And we have to keep in mind that historically, the cost of the Corvette's power plant has been paid for (many times over) by GMT. Which is one of the driving reasons why the Corvette costs as little as it does. If GM intends to stick with that pattern, whatever "new hotness" they come up with is going to need to work in the trucks. Otherwise the cost of the car will skyrocket to some of the silly numbers we've seen posted in this section.
ETA:
I just noticed my new badge
ETA:
I just noticed my new badge
I’m sure GM gave a lot of thought to what was offered for the vehicle that makes them much more than. Vette. The 585,000 Silverado’s they sold in 2018! Doubt is anyone on the GM Board worried which of the current, “it must have round taillights or I’m not buying crowd- but did those truck buyers. Oh yea, if your towing you will be able to get the 3 Liter Duramax diesel.
The Car World is changing fast. Best get on the carousel now or it may get going too fast.
I’m no “greedy” as some refer it it! Have a 502 cid BB in my Street Rod. It gets ~10 mpg the way it’s geared. But I see the handwriting on the wall and at 76 always accepted change. Packed that “Slip Stick” away many years ago!
03-17-2019, 03:51 PM
#1017
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But I've already gone over this in the powertrain thread. :-)
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Foosh (03-17-2019)
03-17-2019, 04:04 PM
#1018
Banned Scam/Spammer
Yep, guess we’re getting the 2.7 Liter dual overhead cam turbo that is in the 2019 Silverado!
I’m sure GM gave a lot of thought to what was offered for the vehicle that makes them much more than. Vette. The 585,000 Silverado’s they sold in 2018! Doubt is anyone on the GM Board worried which of the current, “it must have round taillights or I’m not buying crowd- but did those truck buyers. Oh yea, if your towing you will be able to get the 3 Liter Duramax diesel.
The Car World is changing fast. Best get on the carousel now or it may get going too fast.
I’m no “greedy” as some refer it it! Have a 502 cid BB in my Street Rod. It gets ~10 mpg the way it’s geared. But I see the handwriting on the wall and at 76 always accepted change. Packed that “Slip Stick” away many years ago!
I’m sure GM gave a lot of thought to what was offered for the vehicle that makes them much more than. Vette. The 585,000 Silverado’s they sold in 2018! Doubt is anyone on the GM Board worried which of the current, “it must have round taillights or I’m not buying crowd- but did those truck buyers. Oh yea, if your towing you will be able to get the 3 Liter Duramax diesel.
The Car World is changing fast. Best get on the carousel now or it may get going too fast.
I’m no “greedy” as some refer it it! Have a 502 cid BB in my Street Rod. It gets ~10 mpg the way it’s geared. But I see the handwriting on the wall and at 76 always accepted change. Packed that “Slip Stick” away many years ago!
03-17-2019, 04:06 PM
#1019
I think he's trying to remind folks that he embraces change and the need to become more efficient, while appreciating old school at the same time. With the ever changing cast of characters around here, sometimes you need to repeat yourself to make points.
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03-17-2019, 04:25 PM
#1020
Just some random thought on transmissions to plug into the thread. Currently drive a 8ZF & a TKO600 5MT daily. Used to drive a 7DCT daily. Memory is fading on the DCT but it was/is my personal favorite. Nothing to do with what is better etc. MT is more fun but day in day out driving I liked the DCT.
Now comes the wrinkle. BMW has been a major holdout in continuing to offer MT transmissions. It has taken a turn is is starting to dry them up. The new M5 is a ZF8 & I believe the M8 is also. The bread & butter 3 series has lost, in 2019, its MT for a 8ZF only transmission choice.
The M2 is the only car they have definitely said will continue to have an MT. Here is the thing, they have now made statements that the 8ZF is good enough, quick enough & are also deleting the DCT from most of their lines. Its my understanding some other German manufactures who soak up a lot of the DCT volume are also making similar moves.
Will this leave the FORD/GM Tremec DCT an outlier?
Now comes the wrinkle. BMW has been a major holdout in continuing to offer MT transmissions. It has taken a turn is is starting to dry them up. The new M5 is a ZF8 & I believe the M8 is also. The bread & butter 3 series has lost, in 2019, its MT for a 8ZF only transmission choice.
The M2 is the only car they have definitely said will continue to have an MT. Here is the thing, they have now made statements that the 8ZF is good enough, quick enough & are also deleting the DCT from most of their lines. Its my understanding some other German manufactures who soak up a lot of the DCT volume are also making similar moves.
Will this leave the FORD/GM Tremec DCT an outlier?