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What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?

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What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?

 
Old 01-29-2019, 11:49 PM
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skank
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Default What are the chances of a C8 FE and C8 ME revealing together?


Lately, we are getting verified info on a revised C7 front engined Corvette with a new ordering code for the 2020 model year. I've always determined from various sources that we had a Y1XX and Y2XX internal code which stands for Y1XX=C7 front engine Corvette and Y2XX=C8 front engine Corvette. We've also learned that the internal code ZERV= C8 mid engined ZORA. I've always thought that we would have both FE and ME C8's going forward to satisfy all prior Corvette owners and creating a new clientele for the upscale ZORA. Since the new Bowling Green Plant has been tripled in size from the plant of a few years ago, it is clear that they have expanded the plant to build both lines easily. I can easily see a revised C7 FE Corvette into a C8 FE Corvette with all new body panels, Interior, LT2 engine, updated and enhanced components that could carry on the lower bandwidth price of 65k to 150k for the front engine lineup. Additionally, I can see a C8 ME Zora Line that could have a 85k to 200k+ bandwidth that would expand the Corvette market with new potentially International clientele without affecting the traditional Corvette buyer.

I've always thought that only having a ME would absolutely crater the existing C7 upper eschelon of ZO6 and ZR1 values. Particularly if the C8 ME started at 65k-70k. It makes no sense to reduce prior Corvette valuations by bringing the ME price down to where the C7 currently sits. Ferrari would never do such backhanded pricing to cut the throat of their higher end cars. Corvette marketing easily understands this and will protect the recent ZR1 owners from having their brand new ZR1 devalued. Hence, I think there's a likelyhood of GM revealing both C8 FE and C8 ME ZORA at the same time to eliminate the confusion going on now in the forums. Doing a double reveal will position both configurations where we forum members can now make informed and logical pricing decisions without the massive confusion thats going on right now.

Also, the current nomenclature will remain FE= Stingray, Grand Sport, ZO6, ZR1 and the ME= ZORA with a few additional model iterations ( ie. ZORA, ZORA GT, ZORA S, ZORA RS, etc.). GM surely would not pirate the traditional names for a entirely new configuration of Corvette. ZORA is a model, not an entirely new Corvette lineup. I also think both C8 FE and C8 ME will be left hand and right hand drives to further service the International Market. Having both configurations will eliminate the chaos.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:17 AM
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I'm pretty sure that we are in the minority but my thinking parallels yours. Why make a cheap ME? Why not do it right and still position it in the market below the 'high dollar' Euro offerings? All those that say they will defect to Mustang, Nissan, etc if the Corvette ME is priced in the $90K+ range would still have a compelling reason to stay in the fold with an updated FE Corvette.

Only time will tell..... exciting times are just around the corner!
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:24 AM
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I think you might be onto something. Makes a lot of sense.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:25 AM
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It's possible, what are the chances I have no idea. The C7 is what, on its fifth year? Mid cycle refresh for next year, maybe? Kinda doubt it. Cant see the general launching two new two seaters at the same time, even if the C8 FE is really just a C7.5.

If this was possible the FE would continue its generation count to C8? Would think so. The ME would maybe be Z1, first gen Zora? When did all the C*, add number, become a thing? I dont remember anyone as a kid calling their Vette a C2 or C3. Big block, hell yeah.

Maybe the chances are about the same as the ME not coming out at all! Lol

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Old 01-30-2019, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
Lately, we are getting verified info on a revised C7 front engined Corvette with a new ordering code for the 2020 model year. I've always determined from various sources that we had a Y1XX and Y2XX internal code which stands for Y1XX=C7 front engine Corvette and Y2XX=C8 front engine Corvette. We've also learned that the internal code ZERV= C8 mid engined ZORA. I've always thought that we would have both FE and ME C8's going forward to satisfy all prior Corvette owners and creating a new clientele for the upscale ZORA. Since the new Bowling Green Plant has been tripled in size from the plant of a few years ago, it is clear that they have expanded the plant to build both lines easily. I can easily see a revised C7 FE Corvette into a C8 FE Corvette with all new body panels, Interior, LT2 engine, updated and enhanced components that could carry on the lower bandwidth price of 65k to 150k for the front engine lineup. Additionally, I can see a C8 ME Zora Line that could have a 85k to 200k+ bandwidth that would expand the Corvette market with new potentially International clientele without affecting the traditional Corvette buyer.

I've always thought that only having a ME would absolutely crater the existing C7 upper eschelon of ZO6 and ZR1 values. Particularly if the C8 ME started at 65k-70k. It makes no sense to reduce prior Corvette valuations by bringing the ME price down to where the C7 currently sits. Ferrari would never do such backhanded pricing to cut the throat of their higher end cars. Corvette marketing easily understands this and will protect the recent ZR1 owners from having their brand new ZR1 devalued. Hence, I think there's a likelyhood of GM revealing both C8 FE and C8 ME ZORA at the same time to eliminate the confusion going on now in the forums. Doing a double reveal will position both configurations where we forum members can now make informed and logical pricing decisions without the massive confusion thats going on right now.

Also, the current nomenclature will remain FE= Stingray, Grand Sport, ZO6, ZR1 and the ME= ZORA with a few additional model iterations ( ie. ZORA, ZORA GT, ZORA S, ZORA RS, etc.). GM surely would not pirate the traditional names for a entirely new configuration of Corvette. ZORA is a model, not an entirely new Corvette lineup. I also think both C8 FE and C8 ME will be left hand and right hand drives to further service the International Market. Having both configurations will eliminate the chaos.
I agree with all your logic except for the introduction of RHD models. Both the UK and Japan allow importation of LHD vehicles and I doubt that a RHD version would increase sales in those two countries by much, as the Corvette is presently sold in the UK and in Japan.

That leaves only one country(Australia) that would be a possibility for a RHD version. I really doubt that there would be enough demand in Australia to warrant the expense of tooling up RHD versions of the Corvette. It sure hasn't in the past. I don't think India or Singapore are viable markets for a Corvette.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:42 AM
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What if the C8 is a ME and the revised FE is something else, like the caddy thing? It still to me wouldn't make sense but who actually knows. GM is doing whatever because they know or are atleast banking on making more money.

As for when the C thing came about, the first actual reference to it is the C4 era iirc. It really is just the 4th generation. But a lot of people now if you were to say I have a 69 427 vette, people wouldn't know what body style to imagine. At least a lot of my friends anyway.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:42 AM
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All I know is, C5+C6 meant 15 yrs of using the core architecture, for return on investment. C7 is at 5yrs old, going on 6. It just doesn't make business sense to kill the platform so soon, while taking on a big risk with the ME...when an updated FE, at a lower cost, can shore it up. Something else is coming and I see no reason not to continue the C7 and make money off of the chassis/base architecture when it's paid for and still young. The FE and ME will clearly be built side by side at Bowling Green, so the recipe is there to continue...why would you not? Even Porsche doesn't end life cycles quickly like that.
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Old 01-30-2019, 12:59 AM
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I think it'd be a lot more plausible if Corvette was it's own brand. But I just don't see how they'll balance out that market with the pricing. If they were only going to release one Halo ME car then I can see it maybe, but when you have so many different "Corvettes" in the $70-100 grand range it might not be sustainable.
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Old 01-30-2019, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by skank View Post
Lately, we are getting verified info on a revised C7 front engined Corvette with a new ordering code for the 2020 model year....
Skank, while your premise is possible, your leading statement which serves as the basis for your premise, is not accurate. While we do have verified info on a new Stingray ordering code for MY 2020, there was no verification that this was a revised C7 FE Corvette. I personally think the Stingray name will continue on the base C8 FE car. But like I always say, time will tell.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jagamajajaran View Post
Skank, while your premise is possible, your leading statement which serves as the basis for your premise, is not accurate. While we do have verified info on a new Stingray ordering code for MY 2020, there was no verification that this was a revised C7 FE Corvette. I personally think the Stingray name will continue on the base C8 FE car. But like I always say, time will tell.
I assumed a changed code would indicate a changed vehicle. Or why would they change the ordering code if it wasn't a physical change to the vehicle. This code business is getting confusing. Oh well!
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:08 AM
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This is what I've been saying too!!!
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:23 AM
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It would be good to get some clarification on the C1 to C8 generational code system by Tadge, Harlan, or whoever. We do know that each generation was a well defined and specifically changed vehicle chassis, component, and design direction. Each generation would most likely require new tooling and new a factory layout. Each generation also has a well defined time delineation. So could the Mid Engine be part of the C7 time frame or is it starting the new C8 generation with a new C8 FE to follow immediately or later?

Last edited by skank; 01-30-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Darion View Post
It's possible, what are the chances I have no idea. The C7 is what, on its fifth year? Mid cycle refresh for next year, maybe? Kinda doubt it. Cant see the general launching two new two seaters at the same time, even if the C8 FE is really just a C7.5.

If this was possible the FE would continue its generation count to C8? Would think so. The ME would maybe be Z1, first gen Zora? When did all the C*, add number, become a thing? I dont remember anyone as a kid calling their Vette a C2 or C3. Big block, hell yeah.

Maybe the chances are about the same as the ME not coming out at all! Lol

PC
It all started in late '96 in the lead up to the 1997 Corvette. They were never called C#'s before that.
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Old 01-30-2019, 03:36 AM
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1%...
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:49 AM
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I firmly believe the next generation Corvette (C8), that we’ve seen multiple prototypes and CAD leaks of over the recent years, will be a mid engine car. That’s it. Maybe they’ll continue FE C7 production for a bit, but I don’t see the case for it. We’ll find out soon.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:48 AM
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Corvette sales were down -37% in Q4 2018 and -25% 2018 YTD.
Where is this idea that C7 FE models are still cash cows for GM coming from?
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:54 AM
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There are compelling arguments going either way.

Scenario one: The Mid Engine car is a specialized performance variant designed for low volume, with ZR1 power or better and primarily track focused. This car will be on it's own generational timeline, ME 1, ME 2 etc. The price point would probably start at ZR1 levels. If they went this route, they could continue the C7 as is, side by side. From a financial standpoint, the only real advantage to GM, and dealers, would be a profit based shot in the arm from the mid engine, as there will be a demand for it, assuming it delivers legendary performance and styling that holds water to the higher price tag, but it won't do a lot for sales volume.

Scenario two: The FE will be done. The 8th generation of Corvette will be mid engine and that's it. In this case GM goes all in with the new platform. Personally, I don't see where it makes much sense to market this "all new" Corvette that has been 50+ years in the dreaming, and then fall back and say, "but we'll keep making the same old Corvette, just in case you don't like this one." Now, this case is talking about the idea that they just keep making the C7 as it is and roll out the ME at the same price point. This case would just not instill a lot of confidence that the new Corvette is all that great. If the ME is the C8, then that's all they will make, and C7, and the FE as we know it, will have it's place in the archives.

Scenario three: They create a new FE and call it the C8, and roll it out alongside the ME, which will have it's own timeline, but not necessarily a higher priced, low volume 'track car' as in scenario one. More like you have a choice of these two great all new cars. This is very plausible, except that it could be a logistical nightmare for GM. Going in, aside from some preliminary market research, there really isn't much to say how the volume mix will work out. When it comes to contracting suppliers for the parts and systems unique to each car, meeting supply and demand could be difficult at best. For example, let's say the demand for the ME is double expectation, and it is equipped with a DCT, but the supplier was only contracted for and set up for x number of units, well, there is now a constraint on ME's. What would that do to Corvette sales in general? Will the folks that had been waiting for, and excited about getting the first ME Corvette, just go ahead and the get the FE that's available? I highly doubt that. Some will wait, but how many won't and just take their big bag of money elsewhere? (Not to mention that we've not seen nor heard anything of a new FE car)

No matter where this lands, this is a huge roll of the dice for GM. Even though they haven't even acknowledged this ME car, there's enough talk out there now that if they pull the plug on it, there will be plenty of backlash on them for being 'chicken'. But to completely change a 66 year, tried and true formula, a tradition, an Icon, that is Corvette is akin to blindfolded Acapulco cliff diving. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSenator View Post
Corvette sales were down -37% in Q4 2018 and -25% 2018 YTD.
Where is this idea that C7 FE models are still cash cows for GM coming from?
General Motors sold close to 19,000 of them. That is not losing money! They were also dramatically changing the factory (tripling the size) and certainly this had severe impact!
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Old 01-30-2019, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
I agree with all your logic except for the introduction of RHD models. Both the UK and Japan allow importation of LHD vehicles and I doubt that a RHD version would increase sales in those two countries by much, as the Corvette is presently sold in the UK and in Japan.

That leaves only one country(Australia) that would be a possibility for a RHD version. I really doubt that there would be enough demand in Australia to warrant the expense of tooling up RHD versions of the Corvette. It sure hasn't in the past. I don't think India or Singapore are viable markets for a Corvette.
JoeC5, could it be that expensive? Ford has offered a right hand drive Mustang in the UK for 3 years now! And what about Commonwealth countries? India, one of the world's fastest advancing countries, is right hand drive.

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Old 01-30-2019, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeG37 View Post
It all started in late '96 in the lead up to the 1997 Corvette. They were never called C#'s before that.
Was the transition to C5 that dramatic or controversial or was it marketings idea? Seems like it shouldn't have been controversial, pop up headlights, golf clubs, at least oval brake lights, NA V8 but they did drop the clamshell front from the previous gen and trans moved to the back. Well the 90s were sorta weird.

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