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C8 the last Corvette with and ICE drivetrain?

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C8 the last Corvette with and ICE drivetrain?

 
Old 02-06-2019, 07:02 PM
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427Z0SX
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Default C8 the last Corvette with and ICE drivetrain?

GM will go all electric for all vehicles.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-d...xt-decade.html
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 427Z0SX View Post
GM will go all electric for all vehicles.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-d...xt-decade.html
But it doesn't say how long in the future that will be just that the electric vehicles they do build will not be profitable for 10 years. ICE vehicles will still be around for a long time.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:16 PM
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Depends on advancements in battery technology. It is said that the unreleased 2020 Tesla Roadster has a 200 kWh battery with a 620 mile range. 1.9 0-60, 8.8 1/4 mile. The battery is large to make the power, but it also allows for an extremely long range.

If this technology paired with faster superchargers is deployed to other models by 2022, then things will begin to change. As a Model 3 Performance owner, I understand that the future is 90% electric when it comes to personal vehicles. I am assuming there may be some use cases where an electric vehicle just won't do, but this vehicle is silent, very fast, cheap to fuel, and requires zero reoccurring maintenance.

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Old 02-06-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisrokc View Post
I understand that the future is 90% electric when it comes to personal vehicles. I am assuming there may be some use cases where an electric vehicle just won't do, but this vehicle is silent, very fast, cheap to fuel, and requires zero reoccurring maintenance.
The future is great for [people who want transportation
The future is bleak for people who want sexy transportation.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:36 PM
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Never happen. Take a look at Tesla Model3 sales - they are out of US buyers for the top trim level cars. No waiting list. In fact there are 6800 of them in stock, there was a 2 year waiting list not so long ago. The early adopters have been exhausted, at least those who want to pay $60K for a $35K car. Electric cars aren't going to be as popular as people think - the only way to get people to buy them, is to force them to purchase them through government regulation and taxation.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MitchAlsup View Post
The future is great for [people who want transportation
The future is bleak for people who want sexy transportation.
Agreed. Things like this will kill the Corvette.

https://electrek.co/2019/02/04/volks...rm-automakers/

I just hope we get an electric assisted, all electric Corvette before it is said and done.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisrokc View Post
Depends on advancements in battery technology. It is said that the unreleased 2020 Tesla Roadster has a 200 kWh battery with a 620 mile range. 1.9 0-60, 8.8 1/4 mile. The battery is large to make the power, but it also allows for an extremely long range.

If this technology paired with faster superchargers is deployed to other models by 2022, then things will begin to change. As a Model 3 Performance owner, I understand that the future is 90% electric when it comes to personal vehicles. I am assuming there may be some use cases where an electric vehicle just won't do, but this vehicle is silent, very fast, cheap to fuel, and requires zero reoccurring maintenance.
And you can replace the gas tank in the Corvette with a 185 gallon unit, and the range will be increased tenfold. Add laughing gas, and you have a quicker 0-60. And it's accomplished with decades old technology, not some "pie in the sky" crap.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
But it doesn't say how long in the future that will be just that the electric vehicles they do build will not be profitable for 10 years. ICE vehicles will still be around for a long time.
It has also been reported that the auto companies will spend 255 billion dollars on bringing "new" EV's to market in the next 5-10 years. That doesn't count the massive amount of dollars required to bring new infrastructure on line(I understand that it's $100,000 for each Supercharger location) to feed all those EV's. We already have gas stations all over the US(over 100,000 of them).

We already have the infrastructure to supply gasoline to all the vehicles we will build in the next 10 years, as well as all the plants to build all those ICE vehicles. Why waste 255 billion + dollars to get to where we already are?

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Old 02-06-2019, 10:18 PM
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Until battery tech changes I don’t think electric will gain wide adoption unless forced to. People will just hold on to their ice cars longer. It needs to be just as convenient to charge either by changing out batteries or making the charge take 5 mins. That could take decades to achieve. Not sure what the cost of cars will become with batteries that use rare earth minerals. We would need to find a cheap alternative otherwise no one will be able to afford to own a car. It sometimes feels like we are going backward in time economically with with what people can afford nowadays
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
It has also been reported that the auto companies will spend 255 billion dollars on bringing "new" EV's to market in the next 5-10 years. That doesn't count the massive amount of dollars required to bring new infrastructure on line(I understand that it's $100,000 for each Supercharger location) to feed all those EV's. We already have gas stations all over the US(over 100,000 of them).

We already have the infrastructure to supply gasoline to all the vehicles we will build in the next 10 years, as well as all the plants to build all those ICE vehicles. Why waste 255 billion + dollars to get to where we already are?
I can understand needing alternate fuels. Oil is a relatively limited resource. Based on some oil industry studies there is supposed to be something like 50 or so years worth of oil reserves at our present consumption level (using existing drilling technology). This is assuming we donít find any more massive oil reserves and that drilling technology doesnít advance to the point where it would be profitable to get to oil that is too hard to get to right now. So gas is going away whether we like it or not and it is a matter of getting in front of the issue to find the next fuel source. Infrastructure will take decades to transition so the next big thing really needs to be determined in the next 20 or so years.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Demnos View Post
Until battery tech changes I donít think electric will gain wide adoption unless forced to. People will just hold on to their ice cars longer. It needs to be just as convenient to charge either by changing out batteries or making the charge take 5 mins. That could take decades to achieve. Not sure what the cost of cars will become with batteries that use rare earth minerals. We would need to find a cheap alternative otherwise no one will be able to afford to own a car. It sometimes feels like we are going backward in time economically with with what people can afford nowadays
The EU and China are clearly going to do exactly that - force people into electrics. Subsidy, taxation, bans on ICE cars in Metro areas. Tesla knows the truth about their US market sales, how quickly the order book collapsed after the early adopters were satisfied. Now they have to sell cars in the real market - where people compare features, look at the price, convenience of ownership, etc - as opposed to having cult buyers.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Demnos View Post


I can understand needing alternate fuels. Oil is a relatively limited resource. Based on some oil industry studies there is supposed to be something like 50 or so years worth of oil reserves at our present consumption level (using existing drilling technology). This is assuming we donít find any more massive oil reserves and that drilling technology doesnít advance to the point where it would be profitable to get to oil that is too hard to get to right now. So gas is going away whether we like it or not and it is a matter of getting in front of the issue to find the next fuel source. Infrastructure will take decades to transition so the next big thing really needs to be determined in the next 20 or so years.
GM sold ~18,000 Bolts in 2018 and lost ~$8,000 on each one of them. Who do you believe made up for that $144,000,000 loss?

What percentage of the US's electricity is supplied by nuclear, solar, wind and hydro? Do you believe that that percentage will be at 100% in the next 10 years to fuel all those wonderful EV's.

Point is that changing form gasoline to coal and natural gas to fuel our cars isn't really going to solve any problems, just waste a lot of money duplicating what we already have.

Want cleaner air this year, then take the wasted 255 billion+++++ dollars and make current cars cheaper, so more people will buy them to replace their older cars that are not as efficient.


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Old 02-06-2019, 11:26 PM
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Sure, I paid a premium for the performance. It isnít any different than buying the base BMW 3 Series vs the M3.

As for the doubt on EVs. Let me dredge this thread up in 6-9 years.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrisrokc View Post
Sure, I paid a premium for the performance. It isnít any different than buying the base BMW 3 Series vs the M3.

As for the doubt on EVs. Let me dredge this thread up in 6-9 years.
The Tesla order book for the model3 (in the US) has collapsed - they just lowered the price another $1100 today. China and EU deliveries will keep them going for some time, and those are forced/subsidized markets. And the ModelY coming for the US will help, although rumor is the base price is $49K which is steep for a CUV that competes with the Mazda CX5/Hyundai Tucson class. But for the model3 in the US, the peak has passed and the fall off is steep. If Tesla can't sell mass market EVs, GM and VW can't for sure. The early adopter phase always looks good - waiting lists, etc. Means very little.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:56 PM
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It’s inevitable that that the ICE will go the way of the horse and buggy. In what time frame is certainly debatable. It will be a combination of regulation and innovation that drives this evolution.

Having driven a Tesla S P100 with its 500 HP euqivalent and almost matching torque, I was impressed with its launch and driveability, but I was as disappointed in the quietness of the cabin but I just turned up the music. Missed the V8 roar. I suspect once GM fully ocmmits to this project, Mary will be able to develop the alternative fueled vehicles much more cost effectively than Tesla, or even GMs Bolt, justness because of the scale of the commitment and the existing capabilities. Remember, Tesla started from scratch

The impediment to alternate fuel vehicles, both electric or hydrogen, is the lack of recharging/refueling networks. Building that network will be a much larger challenge than designing and building the cars.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:42 AM
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It's not gonna happen. As has already been said battery tech is maybe half as good as it needs to be.

Last edited by ChucksZ06; 02-07-2019 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:54 AM
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EVs are already having an effect on oil prices. Gasoline is currently at late sixties prices after factoring for inflation. Anyone want to buy an oil well?
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by roadbike56 View Post
EVs are already having an effect on oil prices. Gasoline is currently at late sixties prices after factoring for inflation. Anyone want to buy an oil well?
Since EVs are only about 1% of total car sales worldwide, I find it hard to believe that the resultant small change in demand would cause much of a drop in oil prices. The price elasticity curve would have to go to the moon.

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Old 02-07-2019, 02:19 AM
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Very poorly written article. Tesla is profitable, because they sell EV credits to other manufacturers.

EVs make for expensive commuter cars. Long charging times make them impractical for anything else. The laws of physics limit how fast EVs can charge. I don't see a future with the public horsing around with charging cables big enough to carry 1500 amps. I also don't see batteries lasting with that high of a charge rate, or even staying cool for that matter.

GM is working with Honda on making hydrogen fuel cells. With fill-up times and driving ranges already similar to gasoline cars, in my opinion, there is a lot more potential with fuel cell EVs taking the place of gasoline driven cars.
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Old 02-07-2019, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by nyca View Post
The Tesla order book for the model3 (in the US) has collapsed - they just lowered the price another $1100 today. China and EU deliveries will keep them going for some time, and those are forced/subsidized markets. And the ModelY coming for the US will help, although rumor is the base price is $49K which is steep for a CUV that competes with the Mazda CX5/Hyundai Tucson class. But for the model3 in the US, the peak has passed and the fall off is steep. If Tesla can't sell mass market EVs, GM and VW can't for sure. The early adopter phase always looks good - waiting lists, etc. Means very little.
Musk has said they will be delivering 3,000 Models 3's weekly in the following months to Norway and Germany. The first shipment has already landed.

Has he announced that the US plant where they will be built is increasing production by 3,000 a week to make that happen? NO. They are just diverting 3,000 Model 3's a week to Europe because there is little demand for them in the US. he can only hope to make a profit by selling $35,000 Model 3's for $50,000. I believe that the very little demand for the Model 3 is from those that were expecting a true $35,000 Model 3 les the $7,500 "gift" from the American taxpayer. Musk can't afford to sell the Model 3 with a MSRP of $27,500 which many people that signed up for the Model 3, were expecting.



Cutting prices and laying off people is not a sign that demand exceeds supply as the EV(especially Tesla) lovers want you to believe.

No demand for the Bolt, or the Leaf either in the US. Then there are the remaining eight BEV brands sold in the US. last year. Those eight brands sold a total of less than 8,000 cars, during the whole ******* 12 months of 2018.

Yet the EV lovers keep yelling at the top of their voices that EVERYONE wants an EV because they are the greatest invention of mankind, but those EV lovers say the reason EVERYONE does not buy an BEV is because there is a huge shortage of BEV's for sale in the US. Ain't so folks.

https://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt...ied-twice-why/

Last edited by JoesC5; 02-07-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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