For those who keep saying there's NO DELAY - NCM plant tour screen captures
#21
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Further evidence are the keyfob 'leak' which wasn't even a leak, and the logo animations from the infotainment firmware. The key fob with the logo was scheduled with the FCC for public release last year, and the firmware was released for download with the expectation that certain elements wouldn't need to be secret any more.
The car, or at least certain elements of it, were supposed to be out in public by now.
The car, or at least certain elements of it, were supposed to be out in public by now.
#22
I have NEVER seen a major product development project where the original internal timeline was actually met. Internal timelines are set very aggressively to keep people moving as quickly as possible. It is normal practice to set internal timelines with a significant probability they won't be met due to testing results, but to not make public promises until you know you can deliver. That distinction is important.
I've spent my entire career in the aviation business, and not a single commercial aircraft has ever been finished by the manufacturer's original internal timeline going back 40 years. Folks here are only focused upon the new ME, but it is the norm on virtually every major new project, especially when you're making a complete paradigm shift such as going FE to ME.
I can assure you that GM is not losing any sleep over NCM's failed promise to resume their sponsored plant tours by 1/2019. I'd chalk that up to NCM making a mistake by naming a date when they'd continue.
I've spent my entire career in the aviation business, and not a single commercial aircraft has ever been finished by the manufacturer's original internal timeline going back 40 years. Folks here are only focused upon the new ME, but it is the norm on virtually every major new project, especially when you're making a complete paradigm shift such as going FE to ME.
I can assure you that GM is not losing any sleep over NCM's failed promise to resume their sponsored plant tours by 1/2019. I'd chalk that up to NCM making a mistake by naming a date when they'd continue.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-22-2019 at 10:23 AM.
#23
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I'm not criticizing GM at all... I'd much rather them execute well vs. on-time. I'm just pointing out that the car is behind schedule in a material way. For the C7 they made a huge deal about 01.13.13 in all the teasers etc. They set a goal/date and met it. I'm just hoping they start really teasing the car soon. I loved the C7 release videos.
#24
I seriously doubt the C7 was any different. The original internal timeline was probably well before 1/13/13. They ran the teaser as soon as they knew they were ready, and got the final go-ahead for production.
As soon as the C8 is announced and/or a similar teaser appears, I suspect GM will meet that target as well.
As soon as the C8 is announced and/or a similar teaser appears, I suspect GM will meet that target as well.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-22-2019 at 10:40 AM.
#25
Drifting
You can go back and read the original C7 threads about release and find same threads as these, went on for a couple years. Nothing different here...
#26
Burning Brakes
I am not buying the "major electrical issues" delays… way too many mules sitings to make me a believer. 24/48v systems are not too terribly complex regardless of the car’s features and functions. C8 is beyond ready to be released to the public and be made delivery available mid/late year. 9K C7’s on the ground is the issue. C8 release will absolutely pummel C7 inventory sales which will leave GM with a big problem on their hands in the board room and with their friendly dealers. A $5K incentive becomes a $45M problem. A $10K incentive becomes a $90M problem. All at a time when GM is battling for brand relevancy, models being nixed and layoffs. Imagine one going into the board room with Barra with this lovely problem.
The following users liked this post:
RapidC84B (02-22-2019)
#27
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I am not buying the "major electrical issues" delays… way too many mules sitings to make me a believer. 24/48v systems are not too terribly complex regardless of the car’s features and functions. C8 is beyond ready to be released to the public and be made delivery available mid/late year. 9K C7’s on the ground is the issue. C8 release will absolutely pummel C7 inventory sales which will leave GM with a big problem on their hands in the board room and with their friendly dealers. A $5K incentive becomes a $45M problem. A $10K incentive becomes a $90M problem. All at a time when GM is battling for brand relevancy, models being nixed and layoffs. Imagine one going into the board room with Barra with this lovely problem.
#28
I am not buying the "major electrical issues" delays… way too many mules sitings to make me a believer. 24/48v systems are not too terribly complex regardless of the car’s features and functions. C8 is beyond ready to be released to the public and be made delivery available mid/late year. 9K C7’s on the ground is the issue. C8 release will absolutely pummel C7 inventory sales which will leave GM with a big problem on their hands in the board room and with their friendly dealers. A $5K incentive becomes a $45M problem. A $10K incentive becomes a $90M problem. All at a time when GM is battling for brand relevancy, models being nixed and layoffs. Imagine one going into the board room with Barra with this lovely problem.
It is entirely possible something similar could be going on here in preparation for the changeover to C8 production.
Last edited by Foosh; 02-22-2019 at 01:01 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Foosh:
638HP (02-22-2019),
Zaro Tundov (02-22-2019)
#29
Drifting
I am not buying the "major electrical issues" delays… way too many mules sitings to make me a believer. 24/48v systems are not too terribly complex regardless of the car’s features and functions. C8 is beyond ready to be released to the public and be made delivery available mid/late year. 9K C7’s on the ground is the issue. C8 release will absolutely pummel C7 inventory sales which will leave GM with a big problem on their hands in the board room and with their friendly dealers. A $5K incentive becomes a $45M problem. A $10K incentive becomes a $90M problem. All at a time when GM is battling for brand relevancy, models being nixed and layoffs. Imagine one going into the board room with Barra with this lovely problem.
Think of a Z69 mild hybrid package that simultaneously enhances both gas mileage and 0-30 performance.
This would be distinct from the full hybrid Zora with the front electric drive motors in that the BorgWarner modules simply add torque at the crank.
Alternatively they might have engineered a simple 48V electrical system but discovered it runs too close to current limits. Bean counters like cheap wiring harnesses so they could have pressured engineering to use wire gauges with less overhead capacity and then months later they discover a situation with all accessories running that puts it over the edge. It could even be something like heated seats pushing it over the edge - and the delay did happen at the onset of cold weather.
#30
Burning Brakes
The following 2 users liked this post by Old School:
ArmchairArchitect (02-25-2019),
Latterlon (03-03-2019)
#31
Le Mans Master
The following users liked this post:
ArmchairArchitect (02-25-2019)
#32
#33
Melting Slicks
I am not buying the "major electrical issues" delays… way too many mules sitings to make me a believer. 24/48v systems are not too terribly complex regardless of the car’s features and functions. C8 is beyond ready to be released to the public and be made delivery available mid/late year.
As far as electrical problems, that is a very vague term. It could be any number of things. I think I have stated in the past I was on a project where two separate components passed EMC testing individually, but the second you put them together as part of a complete system they blew up everytime you ran the test that they pass flawlessly on their own. Things don't always play together as expected when you plug them in for the first time as a system. Yes, it may be a simple fix engineering wise, but tooling and production wise it can take much longer. IN my case, the EE had the issue resolved in a day or two, and it took us something like two months to actually get new PCBs built, new connectors available, put the things together in a functioning ECU and verify the problem was solved, and that was on a rather unimportant comfort feature module.
Last edited by jefnvk; 02-23-2019 at 02:36 PM.
#34
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Yep... they sure do and I agree with you. It's been discussed many times on here. Compare the "How it's Made" show of the BG plant vs. Ferrari or Porsche and it's nuts. Many folks say "as long as the work output is good let people dress down". Many businesses do that, including the one I work for, these days... our official dress code is "dress how you feel is appropriate for the job" and we have over 5K emp. Personally, I'd like to see a dress code and I'd like to see assembly quality/consistency improve, but I won't derail another thread with a C7 panel gap and fit discussion I will say they dressed this way in the C5/6 days and the assembly quality was much better so it's really not the dress code.
The following users liked this post:
ArmchairArchitect (02-25-2019)
#36
Team Owner
Thread Starter
#37
Melting Slicks
The double standards and ad hominem in this forum are really making it a drag to even read through the threads. (< not directing that at you, just stating the opinion in general).
Last edited by vndkshn; 02-25-2019 at 11:28 AM.
The following users liked this post:
RapidC84B (02-25-2019)
#38
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Discussion of rumors and interpretations of the slivers if info we have are all there is to talk about. To me, the whole point of this forum is to try to put together the puzzle of the car with the info at hand. What is it, when will it be, etc. I don't see harm in discussion things that are not 100% documented fact. It's OK to post opinion and then have the merits of it debated. Zerv was fine to post his thoughts that the car would be $169K, but it was also fine for forum members to call him a bozo and logically discuss why the Corvette team would be not going up market with the base car. My guess on that topic is the full-kill all-in Zora supercar with twin turbos and electric front drive will be $169K. Makes sense given the all-in ZR1 is $142K in 2019 dollars... assuming the car comes out in 4-5 more years after then do the normal Corvette release of "standard", Z06, ZR1 or... as some have said standard, Grand Sport, Grand Tour, then Zora.
#39
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,915 Likes
on
5,326 Posts
What many have been saying, myself included, is that there can't be an "official delay" because the car, production plans, and availability dates have not been announced. Everything about the car is being held closely under wraps. That's a smart strategy because announcing or teasing a coming new product, as was done for NSX and Supra, and then failing to deliver in a timely fashion is never a good thing for a new product.
It is likely that there has been slippage in GM's internal timetable for making those decisions, but that is relatively routine during development of any new vehicle as testing reveals issues that should be attended to prior to going into production. That is the entire purpose of rigorous testing.
It is likely that there has been slippage in GM's internal timetable for making those decisions, but that is relatively routine during development of any new vehicle as testing reveals issues that should be attended to prior to going into production. That is the entire purpose of rigorous testing.
Bill
The following users liked this post:
Foosh (02-25-2019)
#40
Because of the delay it will now be called the C9.