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I have been under the impression the gap was closed a long time ago. At least as far back as the C5 days and maybe earlier. At least that is what I have seen on track. Met a few 911 guys over the years that were surprised when their wonderous 911 couldn't keep up. The best one was a guy who had a brand new 911 Turbo whatever when I had my 97 and was participating in an autocross on a quarter mile Go Kart Track. They were registering participants when he drove in with a buddy and asked if he could run in a Corvette event. He had Hoosiers on the car and I had them on my 97. He asked who was turning the fastest times at previous events and everybody pointed at me. He then implied that he would be my main competitor. 6 runs later the closest he had come to me was 2 seconds.
Many years ago the Corvette Club I belonged to in upstate NY and the Central NY Porsche Club used to conduct a Porsche Corvette Challenge autocross on another Go Kart Track. We had a point system set up to determine the winning club with the idea the losers would buy the beer. We never bought the beer.
I agree! It will be a great thing if it can further close the gap. While the Corvette faithful want to believe the Corvette is on a level playing field, GM does not. Hence the benchmark Porsche 911 in the picture. GM used the same benchmark for the C7. Highly doubt GM is bringing what they consider to be a lesser car to the party. Doesn’t bode well for progress. It’s my guess the C8 will continue to close the gap.
I have been under the impression the gap was closed a long time ago. At least as far back as the C5 days and maybe earlier. At least that is what I have seen on track. Met a few 911 guys over the years that were surprised when their wonderous 911 couldn't keep up. The best one was a guy who had a brand new 911 Turbo whatever when I had my 97 and was participating in an autocross on a quarter mile Go Kart Track. They were registering participants when he drove in with a buddy and asked if he could run in a Corvette event. He had Hoosiers on the car and I had them on my 97. He asked who was turning the fastest times at previous events and everybody pointed at me. He then implied that he would be my main competitor. 6 runs later the closest he had come to me was 2 seconds.
Many years ago the Corvette Club I belonged to in upstate NY and the Central NY Porsche Club used to conduct a Porsche Corvette Challenge autocross on another Go Kart Track. We had a point system set up to determine the winning club with the idea the losers would buy the beer. We never bought the beer.
It would be nice if it would even match 911 build quality.
Good luck with that. Most here don't even understand what 911 build quality is? I am a reliability engineer and I don't understand it. Marketing I do.
Speaking of marketing, it is known by now Corvette engineers bring the 911 along for pure marketing purposes.
The proverbial pain/pleasure effect..
Oh good heavens. The premise here is cute, but IMSA BOP will keep things even, just like they neutered the GTLM Ford GTs, which were initially dominant after they addressed a few gremlins in the first couple of races 3 years ago.
Good luck with that. Most here don't even understand what 911 build quality is? I am a reliability engineer and I don't understand it. Marketing I do.
Speaking of marketing, it is known by now Corvette engineers bring the 911 along for pure marketing purposes.
The proverbial pain/pleasure effect..
Entertaining thought! I wonder why Porsche doesn’t do the same with including a Corvette in their new generation development? The fact is, build quality and materials are not the same in every car. In this comparison, the 911 flat out beats the Corvette. Granted GM has done a good job of closing the gap from the sea of plastic C6 and older generations. But they still have a ways to go. JD Powers confirms as rated by owners having both vehicles in the area of dependability and number of reported issues. 911 is consistently rated at the top.
Entertaining thought! I wonder why Porsche doesn’t do the same with including a Corvette in their new generation development? The fact is, build quality and materials are not the same in every car. In this comparison, the 911 flat out beats the Corvette. Granted GM has done a good job of closing the gap from the sea of plastic C6 and older generations. But thy still have a ways to go.
The problem is GM hasn't closed the gap on closing the gaps. It's actually gotten worse.
Entertaining thought! I wonder why Porsche doesn’t do the same with including a Corvette in their new generation development? The fact is, build quality and materials are not the same in every car. In this comparison, the 911 flat out beats the Corvette. Granted GM has done a good job of closing the gap from the sea of plastic C6 and older generations. But they still have a ways to go. JD Powers confirms as rated by owners having both vehicles in the area of dependability and number of reported issues. 911 is consistently rated at the top.
I wonder why Porsche doesn’t do the same with including a Corvette in their new generation development?
In fact both AMG and Porsche include the Corvette as a developmental reference for their cars in order to understand and gain market share in the USA.
Obviously they don't parade it in Stuttgart because by nature of the export dynamics (mercantilist) of both brands, the optics would not be good for the Germans.
The fact is, build quality and materials are not the same in every car. In this comparison, the 911 flat out beats the Corvette.
We can agree on the first part of your statement but then you are flipping the inferior argument and attempt to make it superior. Whether we are talking sports driving accolades (the theme of this thread) or technological advancement this "flipping" is a recurring theme with the 911.
First off, the adoption of "plastics" in all its forms ranging from glass fibers, polymers, and carbon fibers has been ailed as an automotive advancement from the onset. Just like home builders have figure out that houses built with sturdy HEAVY rock blocks are actually more fragile, brittle and/or otherwise inferior in assembly, transportability and reliability the automotive industry has figure out plastics offer incremental advantages especially (but not limited to) WEIGHT.
Just by way of your belittling of "plastics" I surmise an implicit lack of understanding of the subject in automotive so I invite you to further research the genesis of plastics in automotive and how the US and Japanese car makers got there respectively 30 and 20 years before the Germans.
Technologically and materially the 911 is a very old platform (again, nothing personal but IT IS time to move on..).
It was born in the 60s has a steel car and it is still basically a steel car in 2019. Yes, of course they have modernized their BOM (bill of materials) to include some aluminum, and some plastics and magnesium and when they do it they sure announce it like Moses parting the waters... 30 YEARS LATER! :-)
Materials..Porsche is unbeatable in marketing. Look at the 2017 GT2RS...they replaced/added the roof square steel frame with magnesium, added titanium exhaust and announce it like the discovery of another planet...when the C5 Z06 was there 20 years earlier.
Finally JD … powers... guy in white lab suit asks car owner to check his 500 mile garage queen to see if everything is OK...LoL!
please!! I was not impressed when Corvette got it (before the 911 again) so let's not go there...
A nice leathered cabin on a old platform does superior car make not...
Time to move on...
Cheers
Last edited by Telepierre; 03-02-2019 at 03:59 AM.
Nice leathered cabin on old platform? LOL! So many engineering improvements cant even start. As owner of c7 Z and GT3 I get to compare all the time. I'll say to you what I say to all my fine friends in my corvette club, please come over and drive my GT3. Its the first auto I would ever consider owning, it has the twin disc PDK trans. Game changer and you simply have to drive one. So much so I'm holding off buying ME until I can confirm rumors that it might have twin disk. Porsche is the most dedicated passionate car builder on planet and that shows up first time you get the PCA publication Panarama. First time you walk into dealership. First time you visit a Porsche concourse.
Corvette has all doo dads that americans have to have, heads up, vented seats, etc etc. But lots more plastic and less quality build. Porsche is a more purpose built car and one that you sit in and not just sit on. However the shear HP and Torque in the Z06 is so damn addicting and smooth it keeps me coming back time and again. Obviously I'm in love with both and its not a dream its more of a curse!
Nice leathered cabin on old platform? LOL! So many engineering improvements cant even start.
Why not try? It would contribute to this thread immensely.
So far you listed one: PDK (introduced in 2009). Great for low - mid torque cars. Incompatible (to date) with high torque cars like Corvette Z06 and ZR1.
I am glad you mentioned the GT3 (congratulations BTW!) That "high revving" experience is very tempting but the car also exemplifies the costs required to make it a mid field contender to keep up with the competition: 490 SAE HP 329 lb-ft for $200K and like you said no
doo dads that americans have to have, heads up, vented seats, etc etc.
So a very exciting high rev zing zing toy with 30 more HP and 136 LESS torque of a base C7 for a mere 140K premium.
I am not trying to belittle your very nice car. Just rational numbers to illustrate the older "that lady" ages the more it needs to look good...
Cheers
Last edited by Telepierre; 03-02-2019 at 05:24 AM.
St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Originally Posted by 97coupechuck
Nice leathered cabin on old platform? LOL! So many engineering improvements cant even start. As owner of c7 Z and GT3 I get to compare all the time. I'll say to you what I say to all my fine friends in my corvette club, please come over and drive my GT3. Its the first auto I would ever consider owning, it has the twin disc PDK trans. Game changer and you simply have to drive one. So much so I'm holding off buying ME until I can confirm rumors that it might have twin disk. Porsche is the most dedicated passionate car builder on planet and that shows up first time you get the PCA publication Panarama. First time you walk into dealership. First time you visit a Porsche concourse.
Corvette has all doo dads that americans have to have, heads up, vented seats, etc etc. But lots more plastic and less quality build. Porsche is a more purpose built car and one that you sit in and not just sit on. However the shear HP and Torque in the Z06 is so damn addicting and smooth it keeps me coming back time and again. Obviously I'm in love with both and its not a dream its more of a curse!
Comparing the Corvette to an upside down bathtub does not seem to me to be a fair comparison.
I agree. But I do think Corvette is improving. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...two different issues. I never thought Corvettes were attractive until the C7, and I thought older 911’s were ugly. I personally like the direction both Porsche and Chevrolet are going with these two respective sports cars.
Nice leathered cabin on old platform? LOL! So many engineering improvements cant even start. As owner of c7 Z and GT3 I get to compare all the time. I'll say to you what I say to all my fine friends in my corvette club, please come over and drive my GT3. Its the first auto I would ever consider owning, it has the twin disc PDK trans. Game changer and you simply have to drive one. So much so I'm holding off buying ME until I can confirm rumors that it might have twin disk. Porsche is the most dedicated passionate car builder on planet and that shows up first time you get the PCA publication Panarama. First time you walk into dealership. First time you visit a Porsche concourse.
Corvette has all doo dads that americans have to have, heads up, vented seats, etc etc. But lots more plastic and less quality build. Porsche is a more purpose built car and one that you sit in and not just sit on. However the shear HP and Torque in the Z06 is so damn addicting and smooth it keeps me coming back time and again. Obviously I'm in love with both and its not a dream its more of a curse!
As a past C7 owner and current 991.2 owner I get the differences. They are obvious every time you get into the car. Those of us that have owned both have to realize we are in the minority on this Corvette forum. Just like in any forum the kool aid runs strong and proud with many owners. Who wants to talk about the best truck.....Ford or Chevy😏. BTW, congratulations on both a Z06 and a GT3. Two great cars with similar performance numbers but entirely different feel and experience and build quality. The Corvette has always been a great bang for the buck that makes it accessible to many in the general public. Therefore you get a lot for the money. Gotta love that! As they say.... you gotta pay to play with either option. Just depends on what you value and are looking for. No wrong answers.
02-28-2019, 10:58 AM
Why the Mid-Engine Corvette Will Devour the 911
