Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?
03-16-2019, 07:43 PM
#301
It wouldn't be less; it would be more. Now they get by with a single steering wheel with the same paddles. One choice. Your way would require two different steering wheels, one with paddles and one without. Now, which one do you need again? Two choices. Two orders with fewer units per order equals greater cost.
03-16-2019, 07:53 PM
#302
Yes, about 50 cents less, and your new suggested button would cost much more than that in terms of added complexity in the supply chain, dash design, manufacturing, etc.
Makes far more sense to use the paddles for ARM and gear shifting, so you can turn it on and off with both hands on the wheel. Your idea adds unique new parts. GM's solution does not.
Makes far more sense to use the paddles for ARM and gear shifting, so you can turn it on and off with both hands on the wheel. Your idea adds unique new parts. GM's solution does not.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-16-2019 at 07:58 PM.
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jefnvk (03-16-2019)
03-16-2019, 07:56 PM
#303
And how much is that REALLY going to cost them?! Not even $3, and it would be even less if you subtract the savings from having no paddles on the steering wheel. The bean counters need to leave GM.
03-16-2019, 08:03 PM
#304
Never mind . . . glad you're not making car design decisions.
03-16-2019, 09:49 PM
#305
Melting Slicks
Ever look at a car and wonder why the same window switch in a base econobox is the same one used in a $60k model? Switches are actually very costly to validate, that is one thing I don't mind saying I did in my last automotive job. Every wheel design needs to go through a full validation cycle. Those $3 you may have saved on the BOM can easily be recouped when that steering wheel has to go through an EMC testing facility that costs in the five figures everytime you send them out, and that is just one aspect of the process that needs done.
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Foosh (03-17-2019)
03-17-2019, 05:30 PM
#306
PDK vs. Manual
I just ran across a great review of the 2018 911 GT3, where both PDK and manual are compared. From the article which sums ups my feelings exactly:
"After using both manual and PDK cars, and even with my penchant for lap times, I’d still pick the zero-dollar 6MT option. It. Just. Feels. Right. It comes with a mechanical rear diff as opposed to electronic and it saves 37 pounds. Stickshift throws are of medium weight and medium distance, but the gates are easy with just a teensy hang-up at the neutral point. Sport mode adds automatic rev matching in the manual cars. The third pedal has a good bit of spring to it, and the catch point is near the middle."
2018 GT3 Review
"After using both manual and PDK cars, and even with my penchant for lap times, I’d still pick the zero-dollar 6MT option. It. Just. Feels. Right. It comes with a mechanical rear diff as opposed to electronic and it saves 37 pounds. Stickshift throws are of medium weight and medium distance, but the gates are easy with just a teensy hang-up at the neutral point. Sport mode adds automatic rev matching in the manual cars. The third pedal has a good bit of spring to it, and the catch point is near the middle."
2018 GT3 Review
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Foosh (03-17-2019)
03-18-2019, 02:02 PM
#308
Burning Brakes
C8 No Manual...I am out! I bought these new. All manual.. I still have them.
The blue camaro is my sons.1SS 1LE. I bought it new for him when he was 21.He might be your future if your still making manual transmissions.
Our pickups are also chevrolet Yes both are manual. I bought mine new in 01. His is an older short wide chevy we restored when he was 16. I would like to have a new pickup but you and the other part of the big 3 do not make a manual transmission pickup with a V8. So I will keep mine tell the wheels no longer turn or I am to old to make them turn.
GM ..Think about it !!!
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ROUTE 66 (03-18-2019)
03-19-2019, 12:34 PM
#309
I just ran across a great review of the 2018 911 GT3, where both PDK and manual are compared. From the article which sums ups my feelings exactly:
"After using both manual and PDK cars, and even with my penchant for lap times, I’d still pick the zero-dollar 6MT option. It. Just. Feels. Right. It comes with a mechanical rear diff as opposed to electronic and it saves 37 pounds. Stickshift throws are of medium weight and medium distance, but the gates are easy with just a teensy hang-up at the neutral point. Sport mode adds automatic rev matching in the manual cars. The third pedal has a good bit of spring to it, and the catch point is near the middle."
2018 GT3 Review
"After using both manual and PDK cars, and even with my penchant for lap times, I’d still pick the zero-dollar 6MT option. It. Just. Feels. Right. It comes with a mechanical rear diff as opposed to electronic and it saves 37 pounds. Stickshift throws are of medium weight and medium distance, but the gates are easy with just a teensy hang-up at the neutral point. Sport mode adds automatic rev matching in the manual cars. The third pedal has a good bit of spring to it, and the catch point is near the middle."
2018 GT3 Review
Compare that to the dreadful 6MT and the just-as-bad 7MT in the C6 and C7....those are horrible examples of manual transmissions. Assuming Chevy can't do any better than they have in this department than they have in the past 10 years, give me the DCT.
If you want an idea of how a real manual transmission should feel, without the notchiness and vague feeling of the Corvettes, go drive a GT 350, a 911, or...hell, a Miata. Now THOSE are enjoyable to shift
03-19-2019, 12:41 PM
#310
I've owned both, and the M7 is also a great transmission once you gain experience with them. A single test drive won't do it. I've owned two. I also had two M6 Tremecs in a C6 and C6 Z06. The Tremec is heavier duty, and I don't believe the Porsche 6MT can handle more than 400 ft lbs. of TQ. Tremec is the only manual in the world now that can handle LT1, LT4, and LT5 torque numbers.
The GT3 develops 500 HP, but only 339 ft. lbs. of torque.
The GT3 develops 500 HP, but only 339 ft. lbs. of torque.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-19-2019 at 12:52 PM.
03-19-2019, 12:48 PM
#311
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
What? What do you mean a transmission's feel will be directly related to the input torque it can deal with? Say it ain't so!
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Foosh (03-19-2019)
03-19-2019, 01:02 PM
#312
The Tremecs are fine once warmed up. Notchy as heck when cold. The C7's trans cooler exacerbates the issue as the trans doesn't come up to temp in normal drive cycles. Takes 30+ minutes and some spirited driving to get it to move the trans temp needle on my car. Once warm the gearbox is very pleasurable to drive. That said, I can see why people think it's poor for a daily driver as you're always driving a cold notchy gearbox.
03-19-2019, 01:08 PM
#313
Found with the TKO 600 5MT you need to let it do it's thing & not force it. Quite a few of the guys complain about them but found if you change your grip on the stick for specific gears it shifts quite smoothly even cold.
EDIT Don't know if it makes a difference but expect my shift **** is heavier then a StingRay's.
EDIT Don't know if it makes a difference but expect my shift **** is heavier then a StingRay's.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-19-2019 at 01:36 PM.
03-19-2019, 01:08 PM
#314
It depends upon how you "daily drive." I commute in my M7 in a 60-mile RT to DC from suburban MD in every-day stop and go traffic as I get closer to DC. I tend to keep the revs up when I drive, and have no issues getting the trans up to temp in a relatively short period of time, and it's very smooth if driven well. Sure, if you putt around and granny shift, or don't make many shifts, yes it's going to stay cold and notchy in short trips.
Every manual I've ever driven has its little idiosyncrasies. Once you learn the Tremecs, it's among the greatest I've ever driven. The last time I drove a new 911 6MT about a year ago, it felt notchy and not as smooth to me, but that was because I'd just stepped out of my C7 M7.
Every manual I've ever driven has its little idiosyncrasies. Once you learn the Tremecs, it's among the greatest I've ever driven. The last time I drove a new 911 6MT about a year ago, it felt notchy and not as smooth to me, but that was because I'd just stepped out of my C7 M7.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-19-2019 at 01:11 PM.
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jefnvk (03-19-2019)
03-19-2019, 01:24 PM
#315
It depends upon how you "daily drive." I commute in my M7 in a 60-mile RT to DC from suburban MD in every-day stop and go traffic as I get closer to DC. I tend to keep the revs up when I drive, and have no issues getting the trans up to temp in a relatively short period of time, and it's very smooth if driven well. Sure, if you putt around and granny shift, or don't make many shifts, yes it's going to stay cold and notchy in short trips.
Every manual I've ever driven has its little idiosyncrasies. Once you learn the Tremecs, it's among the greatest I've ever driven. The last time I drove a new 911 6MT about a year ago, it felt notchy and not as smooth to me, but that was because I'd just stepped out of my C7 M7.
Every manual I've ever driven has its little idiosyncrasies. Once you learn the Tremecs, it's among the greatest I've ever driven. The last time I drove a new 911 6MT about a year ago, it felt notchy and not as smooth to me, but that was because I'd just stepped out of my C7 M7.
03-19-2019, 01:40 PM
#316
I don't think that's it. The Z51 convertible with eDiff has an equal size (to the fender mounted one on the coupe) trannie cooler duct located just inside each rear wheel.
But yes, you do have a short drive. It probably takes mine 15-20 miles to get to 180º, but smooths out nicely above 120º in about 10 minutes.
But yes, you do have a short drive. It probably takes mine 15-20 miles to get to 180º, but smooths out nicely above 120º in about 10 minutes.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-19-2019 at 01:43 PM.
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RapidC84B (03-19-2019)
03-19-2019, 07:52 PM
#317
Is the M7's transmission temperature guage located on the left side of the main DIC?
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03-20-2019, 05:51 AM
#319
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Yep, if I recall correctly it is at the bottom left side of the case below where the skip shift solenoid electrical connection is located. Can confuse the two but the electrical connection plugs are different.
03-20-2019, 09:47 AM
#320
Melting Slicks
I hope I am wrong, because I do enjoy manuals, much as some might glance over that. I still have every reason to believe, as with most technology that gets surpassed by something else in performance, at some point traditional manuals are dead with the advent of DCT.