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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

 
Old 03-07-2019, 09:30 AM
  #21  
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No I don't think they're making a mistake... I'd prefer a manual, but I would take a DCT. There will come a point where the transmission mfgs just stop making manuals because there is no profit to be made. As mentioned, there are many efficiencies to be gained going DCT only. Time will tell.
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:46 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
I just want to say that a DCT is not an automatic, 90% of people that bash DCT have never driven one and once they do.....they actually change tunes - just because it has "paddles" doesn't mean it's a DCT.

A lot of my buddies talked crazy **** when I bought a car with a DCT (Z4 35is) until I actually let them try it - IMO DCT is still a bit "new" to the general public.
First, DCT is an automatic no matter how you slice it. You can put it in "D", forget about the paddles, and not have to do anything but operate the throttle and brake. That's an automatic.

I don't see anyone bashing DCTs or the really good TC autos today. They are fantastic, and I have plenty of experience with them having owned several (both DCT and ZF8). We currently have an Alfa Romeo Guilia TI Sport Q4 w/ ZF8, and I had one in an F-Type. They are just not as much fun to about 23% of Corvette buyers at present, and I traded my F-Type for an M7 C7 as a result.

As I said, if my next buying decision is between an ME DCT, and a manual 911, I'll choose the latter. However, I'm sure other C7 manual owners will "settle" for the DCT, so it's unknown how many sales Corvette will lose. Even 5-10% would be of concern. It was for Porsche when they decided to bring back manuals after retiring them in the 911 and Cayman/Boxster for a short period.

Depending upon how it's programmed, I rate the ZF8 as essentially equivalent to the PDK as have other reviewers. Audi and BMW have actually switched from DCT back to the ZF8 in certain models. I've tried hard to love them as much as great manuals, but can't.

Ideally, it would be great to have one of each, and we're fortunate in that regard.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-07-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:11 AM
  #23  
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I'm a manual fan through and through. I drive my Corvettes for fun and have other vehicles for commuting. I have absolutely no desire to drive an automatic Corvette and if the C8 has only an A8 trans option (which I don't believe) I'll keep my GS for a while and mod it, or start looking at other options.

That being said - there is no way GM releases an Auto only C8. There will be a manual or DCT option.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:15 AM
  #24  
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Auto is not in the conversation. There is a new Tremec-developed 7 speed DCT. Same trans in the new GT500 Mustang. We know from that release and internal docs from Tremec that the trans was co-developed for the new C8.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:17 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by oregonsharkman View Post
I'm a manual fan through and through. I drive my Corvettes for fun and have other vehicles for commuting. I have absolutely no desire to drive an automatic Corvette and if the C8 has only an A8 trans option (which I don't believe) I'll keep my GS for a while and mod it, or start looking at other options.

That being said - there is no way GM releases an Auto only C8. There will be a manual or DCT option.
I'm not sure what you mean by, "there will be a manual or DCT option." A DCT is still an "automatic" no matter how you slice it. I'm hoping there will ultimately be a manual and DCT choice.

If that's what you meant, I agree, but I suspect we'll only have a DCT choice in the beginning, which would mean an "automatic-only" Corvette.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-07-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:22 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
I just want to say that a DCT is not an automatic, 90% of people that bash DCT have never driven one and once they do.....they actually change tunes - just because it has "paddles" doesn't mean it's a DCT.

A lot of my buddies talked crazy **** when I bought a car with a DCT (Z4 35is) until I actually let them try it - IMO DCT is still a bit "new" to the general public.
Agreed. Mechanically, DCT is a manual that that is electronically controlled. It is doing nothing that you don't already do with a manual, it just has motors doing the actuation. There isn't a heavy torque converter that is prone to over heating. No electronics or mechanicals deciding when to shift (although, a benefit is that they can, if you choose not to do it manually). It is not an auto with some manual controls tossed on, it is a manual with some auto controls tossed on.

I sympathize with those saying I like the feel of rowing my own gears, heck my econobox DD Fusion is a manual, but at the end of the day a DCT is still a manual in the car.

Also, it seems a bit silly to me to go to ME for performance reasons, and leave the performance gearbox off the table.

Last edited by jefnvk; 03-07-2019 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:23 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by, "there will be a manual or DCT option." A DCT is still an "automatic" no matter how you slice it. I'm hoping there will ultimately be a manual and DCT choice.

If that's what you meant, I agree, but I suspect we'll only have a DCT choice in the beginning.
What I meant is - there will either be a Manual and a TC Auto, or there will be a Manual and a DCT, or there will be a DCT only. I see no scenario where GM would produce a TC Auto only Corvette.

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Old 03-07-2019, 10:29 AM
  #28  
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No manual option on the new 911, and that's complete b.s.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:30 AM
  #29  
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Auto TC only was never in the cards... the question is DCT only or traditional manual and DCT.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:39 AM
  #30  
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It is an oxymoron to say a DCT is a "manual with automatic controls." That makes it an "automatic." It can't be called a "manual," which by definition, means the operator is required to do something to change the gears. It is a clutch-based automatic transmission, where the operator doesn't have to do anything to change gears.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-07-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:50 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by LarryFL View Post
If 23% of C7 buyers choose manual, which is nearly 4 times the average take rate on all manual-available cars in the USA, then one can conclude that they are abandoning a pretty big part of their market with the C8. I suppose they plan to convert some of us from clutch to paddles, but still, many won't convert.
imo dissatisfied will be hard pressed to find another true sports car alternative
technology just too good
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:58 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Agreed. Mechanically, DCT is a manual that that is electronically controlled. It is doing nothing that you don't already do with a manual, it just has motors doing the actuation. There isn't a heavy torque converter that is prone to over heating. No electronics or mechanicals deciding when to shift (although, a benefit is that they can, if you choose not to do it manually). It is not an auto with some manual controls tossed on, it is a manual with some auto controls tossed on.

I sympathize with those saying I like the feel of rowing my own gears, heck my econobox DD Fusion is a manual, but at the end of the day a DCT is still a manual in the car.

Also, it seems a bit silly to me to go to ME for performance reasons, and leave the performance gearbox off the table.
THANK YOU!!! - You get what I was trying to say.

Also for the record - I too perfer a manual but, I'll happily take a DCT if there is no other choice.
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Old 03-07-2019, 10:59 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
It is an oxymoron to say a DCT is a "manual with automatic controls." That makes it an "automatic." It can't be called a "manual," which by definition, means the operator is required to do something to change the gears. It is a clutch-based automatic transmission, where the operator doesn't have to do anything to change gears.
Eh, you're defining it based on the operation, I am defining it based on the internals. Mechanically, it is not like traditional automatic, it is far more like a traditional manual. It is, of course, its own thing, but when trying to make it like one or another I personally think it is far more akin to a manual than an automatic.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:02 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
It is not an auto with some manual controls tossed on, it is a manual with some auto controls tossed on.
I don't see how one can make that distinction. Both the A8 and a DCT route the power through various sets of gears, but neither does this via the driver moving gears or clutches via a mechanical linkage.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:02 AM
  #35  
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Not having a manual option will make it very hard for me to be a buyer.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:06 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
I personally think it is far more akin to a manual than an automatic.
You can "personally think it" that way, but it simply isn't a manual. Shift it into D and press the accelerator. Go. Never worry about stalling or changing gears on your own. Those are defining characteristics of an automatic transmission. This one just doesn't have a torque convertor attached to it.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:09 AM
  #37  
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If they make a manual gearbox like the one in the C7, then they would be making a mistake PUTTING it in. The car would be better off without it. That 7 speed box is simply horrible because of the stupid 7th gear and the dumb 1-4 lockout at low speeds.

Trying to save fuel has ruined what could have been a pretty good box.

Last edited by Sin City; 03-07-2019 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:37 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Warp Factor View Post
I don't see how one can make that distinction. Both the A8 and a DCT route the power through various sets of gears, but neither does this via the driver moving gears or clutches via a mechanical linkage.
Originally Posted by jvp View Post
You can "personally think it" that way, but it simply isn't a manual. Shift it into D and press the accelerator. Go. Never worry about stalling or changing gears on your own. Those are defining characteristics of an automatic transmission. This one just doesn't have a torque convertor attached to it.
Again, I am defining it based on the mechanics, not the operation. If you choose to define it differently, that is fine, but to me an automatic involves a big TC and a radically different internal method of changing gears.

Of course, as I stated earlier, it is truly neither historical example, it is its own thing. And, FWIW, some of the new manuals I have driven will actually manipulate the engine so you have to try pretty hard to stall it. Are they still manuals, if stalling is a defining characteristic?
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:49 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by LarryFL View Post
If 23% of C7 buyers choose manual, which is nearly 4 times the average take rate on all manual-available cars in the USA, then one can conclude that they are abandoning a pretty big part of their market with the C8. I suppose they plan to convert some of us from clutch to paddles, but still, many won't convert.
Not a mistake at all. Ferrari and Lamborghini have already abandoned the traditional stick. Most other manufactures are there as well or close behind. The fact that some don't like this is irrelevant, most of the Corvette's competition is not offering a stick. Modern automatics are faster, this is proven. The day of the clutch and shifter is gone. If that is unacceptable there are few non-Corvette options.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:21 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by jvp View Post
You can "personally think it" that way, but it simply isn't a manual. Shift it into D and press the accelerator. Go. Never worry about stalling or changing gears on your own. Those are defining characteristics of an automatic transmission. This one just doesn't have a torque convertor attached to it.
That's the thing though - not every DCT has an "Automatic Mode" and that's just what that is.......Automatic Mode.

Ones without Auto Mode you still have to select your gears, It'll stay in gear at redline till you shift it - There's no "D"

DCT's are clutchless manuals that are an evolution of Sequential Manuals, hell you could theoretically row your own with DCT if you wanted to.

Last edited by Houston Z33; 03-07-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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