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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

 
Old 03-07-2019, 12:25 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Sin City View Post
If they make a manual gearbox like the one in the C7, then they would be making a mistake PUTTING it in. The car would be better off without it. That 7 speed box is simply horrible because of the stupid 7th gear and the dumb 1-4 lockout at low speeds.

Trying to save fuel has ruined what could have been a pretty good box.
Skipshift comes up at like 900 rpm if you're at some very low throttle input and speed. In all my 60K miles in my C7 I've seen it come up a couple of times. Accelerate a couple hundred rpm more and it's gone. As for 7th gear... nobody says you have to use it. I do agree that a 6 speed would be better simply for weight. The 7th gear in my C7 cruises at the same highway rpm asn the 6th gears in my C5s.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:25 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
To me, manuals are carbs and dual clutch is fuel injection. From a technological and performance standpoint, one wins hands down, and the results show on the racetrack. There will always be some who do their best to hold on to the old tech, but I just don't see traditional manuals sticking around too much longer. And yes, I love them too, but I'm being realistic about the situation.
If these cars were solely used on the racetrack, fair and valid point. But they are not.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:26 PM
  #43  
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Hmm, just had a though. What about a "manual mode" package for the DCT? Toss in a third pedal that activates the clutch, and an old school style shifter. You could even make it removable if the person didn't want it in the car all the time One tranny can satisfy both crowds
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:27 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
I just want to say that a DCT is not an automatic, 90% of people that bash DCT have never driven one and once they do.....they actually change tunes - just because it has "paddles" doesn't mean it's a DCT.

A lot of my buddies talked crazy **** when I bought a car with a DCT (Z4 35is) until I actually let them try it - IMO DCT is still a bit "new" to the general public.
Even the manufactures call them autos because they are autos.

yes I have owned DCT cars
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:28 PM
  #45  
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I have preference for the manual but a open to hearing what the DCT offers.

There is a lot of nuance in this discussion, and its been repeated as other enthusiasts had to decide on their transition.

- In some cases, Manufacturers don't think manuals have a future, so even when they're offered, they come with poor R&D behind them, leading to inferior gearing, and making the DCT the superior option.
- From some of the patents we see, even if the C8 had a clutch, it might be an electronic clutch, so still may not be the mechanical linkage we're looking for.

In the end it all depends on the final implementation of it all.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:36 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
I just want to say that a DCT is not an automatic, 90% of people that bash DCT have never driven one and once they do.....they actually change tunes - just because it has "paddles" doesn't mean it's a DCT.

A lot of my buddies talked crazy **** when I bought a car with a DCT (Z4 35is) until I actually let them try it - IMO DCT is still a bit "new" to the general public.
Even the manufactures call them autos because they are autos.

yes I have owned DCT cars
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:39 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
Even the manufactures call them autos because they are autos.
They call them autos because the overwhelming bulk of auto purchasers are never going to know or care the nuanced differences between a DCT and a traditional auto, they just want to know if they have to use a third pedal and shift.

Even then, I can't speak to regular cars, but most sports cars I've seen marketed take care to indicate that their "autos" are truly DCT (or whatever brand name is used).
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:39 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Again, I am defining it based on the mechanics, not the operation. If you choose to define it differently, that is fine, but to me an automatic involves a big TC and a radically different internal method of changing gears.

Of course, as I stated earlier, it is truly neither historical example, it is its own thing. And, FWIW, some of the new manuals I have driven will actually manipulate the engine so you have to try pretty hard to stall it. Are they still manuals, if stalling is a defining characteristic?
Words have meaning which is why you don't get to choose how to define something. This thing called the dictionary, maybe you have heard of it, sums it up nicely when referring to automatic vs manual. If it operates with little to no intervention it is an auto, it doesn't matter what bits are inside.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automatic
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manual
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:41 PM
  #49  
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No they are not making a mistake.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:42 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
That's the thing though - not every DCT has an "Automatic Mode" and that's just what that is.......Automatic Mode.

Ones without Auto Mode you still have to select your gears, It'll stay in gear at redline till you shift it - There's no "D"

DCT's are clutchless manuals that are an evolution of Sequential Manuals, hell you could theoretically row your own with DCT if you wanted to.
What cars have a DCT that only shift upon request by the driver?
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:46 PM
  #51  
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My RS5 wont shift while in sport mode unless you tell it to. DL501 DCT transmission.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:49 PM
  #52  
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I think Chevy will be making a mistake by offering just a DCT transmission available on the C8. Even though only 20 or so percent want a manual in a Corvette that is still a significant number of the 30 to 40k cars produced annually.
I for one love the manual transmission in the Corvette or any high performance muscle car or sports car. It is all about the fun factor for me! My Corvette is strictly purchased for fun and I want it completely different than my daily driver. Automatic transmissions and yes, the DCT is still an automatic transmission, is boring in comparison! If only the DCT is offered in the C8 I will just hold on to my '19 Stingray Convertible with the 7 speed manual and enjoy it and save money!
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:51 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Eh, you're defining it based on the operation, I am defining it based on the internals. Mechanically, it is not like traditional automatic, it is far more like a traditional manual. It is, of course, its own thing, but when trying to make it like one or another I personally think it is far more akin to a manual than an automatic.
The 2012-2016 Ford Focus have a DCT, they called it an automatic, but it was actually a DCT. And it drives exactly like an automatic. My daughter unfortunately has one and is going through the buyback with Ford on it now.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:52 PM
  #54  
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A proper DCT will bring more customers than they will lose not offering a manual. Have to remember that sales are generational and peoples tastes / wants in cars change.

Originally Posted by Supersonic 427 View Post
I think Chevy will be making a mistake by offering just a DCT transmission available on the C8. Even though only 20 or so percent want a manual in a Corvette that is still a significant number of the 30 to 40k cars produced annually.
I for one love the manual transmission in the Corvette or any high performance muscle car or sports car. It is all about the fun factor for me! My Corvette is strictly purchased for fun and I want it completely different than my daily driver. Automatic transmissions and yes, the DCT is still an automatic transmission, is boring in comparison! If only the DCT is offered in the C8 I will just hold on to my '19 Stingray Convertible with the 7 speed manual and enjoy it and save money!
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:53 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Sub Driver View Post
Words have meaning which is why you don't get to choose how to define something. This thing called the dictionary, maybe you have heard of it, sums it up nicely when referring to automatic vs manual. If it operates with little to no intervention it is an auto, it doesn't matter what bits are inside.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automatic
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/manual

Definition of manual

(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: of, relating to, or involving the hands manual dexterityb: worked or done by hand and not by machine
So, what you are saying is that when a DCT is not in automatic mode, everything is done by hand, therefore it is a manual? Where, exactly, does the line between the hand doing the work begin and end? Should we differentiate between mechanically linked mechanical transmissions and electronically linked manual transmissions?

Glad were on the same page with those clear definitions

But seriously, while I'll sit here and argue semantics all day long (or until some actual work drops in my lap), call it whatever the heck you want. I'm looking at it on a more technological level than the simple mode of how the gears are changed by the driver. Performance cars have, until recently, had manuals not because race car drivers like rowing gears, but the mechanics of previous automatic transmissions made them quite less than ideal for anything but drag racing. Now that you can get all those benefits AND none of the drawbacks from traditional autos. If you want to personally define manual as having to have a third pedal and a traditional stick, so be it, I view it as that same system, even if the clutch is being controlled by a computer and there is the possibility of a fully auto mode. That doesn't change the fact that unlike a traditional auto (at least a non-heavily modified one), the driver is still in complete control over the gearbox if they so choose.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:53 PM
  #56  
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The question is how many manual buyers will accept the DCT? My guess is a majority and that's what GM thinks as well. I am a stick shift guy, but if I buy a C8 convertible as a nice weather daily driver I will try the DCT. I have been driving stick shift since 15, but at nearly 40 I sometimes secretly wish I had an auto some days. The DCT is a great all around solution. That said, it's very much intended-use dependent. If it's a pure weekend toy that you take on scenic drives only, then manual for sure.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:57 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Eh, you're defining it based on the operation, I am defining it based on the internals. Mechanically, it is not like traditional automatic, it is far more like a traditional manual. It is, of course, its own thing, but when trying to make it like one or another I personally think it is far more akin to a manual than an automatic.
Yes, that's how one defines it. Your definition makes no sense. It's like saying 2 + 2 = 6 because I define 6 to be 4. It's like saying "war is peace" and "freedom is slavery." A "manual," by definition, requires human intervention. An automatic, by definition, does not. It doesn't matter what the internals of the transmission are. Why not? Because you have no interaction with them. There are some gears and stuff in there somewhere and they turn around by themselves. They are "automatic." Grandma's Fleetwood Cadillac has an automatic. She just pushes the accelerator and it goes. If it had a DCT she would do the exact same thing, push the accelerator and it goes. To play fast and loose with definitions like this IGNORES the basic issue here: NO CLUTCH THAT YOU CAN CONTROL. Now you'll turn around and say, "Well, it has a clutch internally that is applied automatically." JUST STOP ALREADY!! You are not making any sense. What do you not get about this? It's like talking to a Hare Krishna guy in saffron robes who comes to the door and you ask him, "OK, what is this all about?" and with this mesmerized look on his face he says, "Pigs eat stool."

The ISSUE here is that many people still want a MANUAL transmission. Saying that a "DCT is a manual" is COMPLETELY IGNORING the issue. Nobody who wants a manual transmission gives a flying F that a DCT has clutches internally. That has NEVER been the point here. Arguing otherwise is like arguing over the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin.
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:59 PM
  #58  
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Automatics have internal clutches too...hahaha
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:02 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Houston Z33 View Post
DCT's are clutchless manuals that are an evolution of Sequential Manuals, hell you could theoretically row your own with DCT if you wanted to.
That's actually mostly untrue. DCTs orient the gears differently than traditional manuals (or even sequentials). Could you row them? Sure, but the pattern would be weird and undriveable. Picture 1st being what we consider 4th and 2nd being 7th, then 3rd being where 2nd is. Making those positions up, but it's something like that. At least that is how BMW did it (well, really ZF I guess, I think that is who made their DCT).

Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Hmm, just had a though. What about a "manual mode" package for the DCT? Toss in a third pedal that activates the clutch, and an old school style shifter. You could even make it removable if the person didn't want it in the car all the time One tranny can satisfy both crowds
This was actually close to a reality. I drove an E60 M5 (from the time before they brought the manual back) that had a 3rd pedal and traditional gated shifter. The pedal and shifter feel was a combo of force feedback and springs, but given it was a beta unit, it felt pretty dang good. They abandoned it when BMW brought the manual back.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:07 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by BIG Dave View Post
Is Chavy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?”

What’s a Chavy?
I think it's the guy from that movie about the scary girl that lives in a well....maybe?
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