Bikerjulio

In replying to this quote:

With all your knowledge and experience you could have explained that such a thing was not possible. Instead you encouraged this misunderstanding by conflating the idea of a manually operated clutch with a discussion of a DCT transmission. Thereby encouraging posters who seemed to think that such a thing was possible with a DCT trans. It isn't. Clearly there are posters here who don't understand what a DCT trans is. There is no need to encourage misunderstanding.

12-13% is the proportion of new MT Corvettes currently on sale across the US and Canada. Right now. I checked. Try it.

NY09C6

it is easily possible to interface an electronic clutch pedal with a dct and emulate a manual. but it would likely feel fake as it would be.

Foosh

Actual production numbers are the ONLY accurate measure. A sizable percentage custom order Corvettes. Dealers don't order manuals as often for lot inventory because they are stocking for the other 75%. Relying on dealer stock data yields an inaccurate measure of the C7 take rate on manual transmissions.

The production numbers I posted are direct from GM. You implied 23% manual was "fake news," but it's not, it's the actual percentage of manuals produced and sold, which has been 22-23% consistently throughout the C7 run. I think manuals have actually boosted C7 sales because so much of the competition doesn't offer them. As I've said, I'm in a Corvette now, primarily because I wanted a manual sports car, and there are a lot of people like me.

It's not just Corvette. For the last decade, if you wanted a manual transmission BMW or Porsche, you typically had to order it because it was unlikely to be in dealer stock.

Michael A

The fact that so many people are offended if you call a DCT an automatic, tells you all you need to know why dropping the manual transmission would be a mistake. Even the people who are buying an automatic (DCT) still want to think of themselves as buying a manual. The people who buy manuals, really want a manual.

GrandSport 2017

There are many reasons people drive corvettes but there is a percentage of people who own them for the man/machine interaction experience that you just don't get with an automatic tranny I don't care
how fast it shifts or how many paddles your fingers flick its not the same.
Motorcycles are an even better example of man and machine interaction, and are not automatics for a reason. Automatic motorcycles have come and gone and they never sell well or stick around. Its the same
thing, you loose the man/machine relationship. Some people just don't and may never understand what I'm talking about.
I'd venture to say that the vast majority of people who buy automatic corvettes have never pushed a motorcycle to its limits and have no intention of ever pushing their corvette anywhere near its limits on the
street or track. They just don't own it for that reason and that's fine, they bought it and enjoy it for other reasons. Nothing wrong with that.

I didn't buy a corvette because it was blue, or it had a spoiler, or fancy wheels, or a removable top, or a stripe, or leather interior, or a great radio.... nope
I bought it because its a powerful capable driving machine that i like to manually shift and interact with. The meat is the engine, tranny, suspension and brakes, everything else is just cake and candy. (but i do like sweets)

I'd have to agree that the number of people who really enjoy the man/machine interaction of driving a manual tranny car is getting smaller all the time. Most people under the age of 40 have never driven
a manual tranny car and if they did it was a "hand me down" first car high mileage, smoking, Toyota Corolla etc., and not exactly exhilarating to drive. Those of us who learned on cheap used V8 M21 G80 cars growing up learned early on
that driving was as fun as you wanted to make it providing you didn't get over 10 points on your license.

The younger video game generation just doesn't get the mechanical man machine interaction thing and the rapidly declining street motorcycle markets of both the high performance type and the V twin verities are proving this out.

In 12 years when the last Otto Cycle engine powered automatic shifting cars roll off the Ford assembly lines, all there will be then is the vibration-less, quiet, autonomous, electric (coal burning) AI cars that will nag you and argue with you on your
way to work over your mis-planned schedule for the day. It will be smarter and know better than you so just sit there and take part in the bosses boring AM VR production meeting, while dreaming of how much you liked
actually driving your C7M7GS Corvette to work (oh those were the days) until "it" stops and she tells you "you've arrived" and not to forget your coordinator in the charging station today.........".

Yes both of these have a mans peddle. But my wife's is faster.

Warp Factor

Don't you miss the mechanical man-machine-interaction of manual chokes, roll-up windows, non-power-assist steering and brakes? The manual spark advance/retard lever on the steering column? Sticking a crank in the front of the car to start the engine?

64drvr

To your point we should all just ride public transportation. You don’t have to operate a choke, hand-start, or a clutch pedal/shifter. I’ve never understood why some people get so offended for a car to have a manual transmission option. For those that can’t operate a clutch, you can still option your automatic. Very selfish to want everyone to only have the configuration you want.

Shaka

Nice post. Ah yes, the pedal dance. Danced to the sweetest music.



Stock C6Z

Extended brake pedal extension C6Z

GrandSport 2017

That's more like flying an airplane then. With an airplane the man/ machine interaction is even more intense.

Way to much thinking and interaction for the average person to handle let alone the average millennial to deal with without having a meltdown.
Theirs no crying in flying an airplane.

Man/machine interaction is something you either have experienced and like or you haven't experienced it and don't know if you like it or you just don't like it.
I think most people these days are in the latter two groups.

The days of a motor/generator on each corner are coming. You wont have to do a thing. Oh the joy!!
At least they will be able to get drunk and high at the bar and have "it/her" pour you into your driveway.
That is if you can afford the AREA tax. (Autonomous Road Enforcement Authority) Oh yes, there will be a cost to ride every mile.
You wont even need to buy one of these jalopies, just tell ADAM (Advanced Delivery Automated Machine) where you want to go and "it/he" will show up and take you there.
If you cant afford it, don't worry your good, only the people with jobs have to pay for it.

I believe in letting free market choice determine what people want to buy. So I guess your right the manual tranny cars will be gone shortly.
But I would buy a stick if its available.

Shaka

The friction circle is always optimized at each corner in the future ADAM car..

JayhawkCPA

If it happens, yes, it will be a huge mistake.

ArmchairArchitect

No, as long as the DCT is THAT good. But it would be wise to also include a manual option at a higher price (to offset the costs of having the option).

Foosh

Regardless of how good it is, as long as true manuals are available, those who really want them will go elsewhere. I continue to maintain that's a sizable number of Corvette buyers.

There's this myth that keeps circulating here that most manual owners are only saying "I won't buy an auto Corvette" because they have no experience with DCTs. It goes on to purport once they see how good it is, they'll be happy. That's just BS because many of us, and most enthusiasts, have experience with them to varying degrees. I have a lot of experience with them.

I know how good a DCT can be, it's damned amazing. I've owned them. It's just not as much fun for me.

Certainly many will settle for it, but many will not. I understand that the DCT + ME will attract folks who never considered the Corvette before. But, a manual option would absolutely sell even more MEs.

Maybe there is no cost-effective solution. I will accept if that is the case, but I'm hoping it's not. If so, I'll move on.

jvp

Might be an interesting "Ask Tadge" question, once the car is released.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think this is the bottom line. My children & grandchildren all can drive manual transmissions & most have at least one. That said among their peers they have a rare skill set since the MT gene pool is drying up.

The take rate on the MT across all brands has continuously shrunk to a point of no longer or almost no longer being economically viable for a mass produced car. Could take a good premium to offer it as an optional transmission in an all new car.

I believe the DCT will be very successful in the C8, would buy one with no trouble, but an MT as an option would be nice to have for a group that is most likely larger then it is for most cars.

Fogboundturtle

It's not at mistake. MT adoption is dying all over the world.

Foosh

That really isn't the relevant point here.

Yes, your 2nd sentence is true, but your first may well be false. There is STILL a sizable demand for it in the Corvette world, as indicated by the 23%+ of C7s produced with the M7 throughout the 14-19 model run. It hasn't declined much at all during that period, holding steady between 23-25%.

Many bought a C7 primarily because it's one of the few high performance options still offering a manual. I did. The irony here is the fact that manuals are dying may actually be driving MORE C7 sales.

How long will that last, no one knows. As has been discussed, if the take rate falls below 10%, then it would be time to consider whether it would still be worth continuing. That's not the case today.

If you're a manufacturer, you have to think long and hard about endangering 25% of your sales.

Fogboundturtle

The point is that Corvette owner are getting older. The cars needs to appeal to a younger generation. The owner who lust for the Corvette because they owned on in 50s and 60s are getting fairly old. For an financial stand point, it's hard to justify a MT since DCT offers just better performance. I don't see Porsche PDK owner complaining. People will get over it. Just like they did over the taillight on the C7.

Foosh

Read what you quoted. I clearly said it's not the case today. Yes, as I also said, maybe later, the answer will change.

It doesn't influence the car's potential appeal to a younger generation to offer a manual option. They can choose the DCT. When Porsche discontinued the manual, plenty of Porsche owners complained, and Porsche brought it back on the 911 and Boxster/Cayman. Of course, you don't see PDK owners complaining, they chose it, but some PDK owners probably traded their cars for manuals when it became available again.

The better performance argument is also irrelevant. We know that, and we don't care because it's more fun.

I also said elsewhere on this thread, maybe it would not be cost-effective to offer it on the ME. We don't know that at this point, but it is cost-effective on the current platform, and it generates more sales. Thus, I'm sure it's been considered, and if it's not offered it will likely be for cost reasons.

Yes, people will get over it, but a sizable percentage will likely leave the Corvette behind if there is another choice. In a DCT/auto-only world, there might well be something I like much better than the Corvette. The M7 steered me toward the C7 in the first place and was the primary reason I traded my Jaguar F-Type. It was a great car, but I just became bored with paddles.

Offering it will produce more sales, and we certainly expect the new ME + DCT will attract folks who've never considered Corvette before. That's a win-win and must be considered.

You can't deny that disappointing 25% of your current owner base is a risk. As the current POTUS says ad nauseam, "We'll see what happens."

Foosh

Thanks JVP. It certainly would be at the appropriate time if the car is DCT only.