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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

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Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

 
Old 03-06-2019, 09:08 PM
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LarryFL
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Default Is Chevy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?

If 23% of C7 buyers choose manual, which is nearly 4 times the average take rate on all manual-available cars in the USA, then one can conclude that they are abandoning a pretty big part of their market with the C8. I suppose they plan to convert some of us from clutch to paddles, but still, many won't convert.

.

Last edited by LarryFL; 03-08-2019 at 10:58 AM. Reason: title was to 'Chevy'
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Old 03-06-2019, 09:14 PM
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If they do, which is not confirmed, I think they will be making a mistake. If it happens, it's entirely possible they'll have to reconsider as happened with BMW and Porsche when they eliminated that option on certain models. They ended up bringing it back after blowback.

It would likely stop me from purchasing one for myself, but my wife might be interested. I have a lot of experience with both DCT and the excellent ZF8 on previous cars I've owned, and I got bored. It's just not the same for me.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-06-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
If they do....It would likely stop me from purchasing one for myself
+1


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Old 03-06-2019, 10:47 PM
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To me, manuals are carbs and dual clutch is fuel injection. From a technological and performance standpoint, one wins hands down, and the results show on the racetrack. There will always be some who do their best to hold on to the old tech, but I just don't see traditional manuals sticking around too much longer. And yes, I love them too, but I'm being realistic about the situation.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:53 PM
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I don't disagree with you. I simply said I'd hold on as long as I can, and I just have a hunch they'll get a lot of blowback at least over the next 5, maybe up to 10 years. Thus, it wouldn't surprise me to see a manual return if it isn't initially offered that way. When Porsche drops it once and for all, that will be the clue that they're really gone forever.

I don't think carb vs. fuel injection is a good analogy though, because for many it's a difference in the fun and involvement factor. I don't know how anyone could argue that for carb vs. FI.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-06-2019 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:00 PM
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You might be right... I’m guessing a few die hards would buy something else. On the other hand, 20% of alll 2018 Corvettes were Arctic White. If white had not been available, how many buyers would have chosen some other white car as opposed to another color on the Corvette?
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:02 PM
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Speaking for myself only (obviously), the primary reason I came back to Corvette was for the M7. I got bored with paddles in my F-Type, and BMW M3 DCT.

When I'm ready for another sports car, if the manual is still available in a 911 and not the ME, I'll buy the Porsche. If I no longer have any choice, I'll obviously make do with whatever I like best.

It's very different than color choice. Manuals are a way of life for some of us. I could be very happy with at least a half-dozen colors.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-06-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:10 PM
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Most car companies drop the manual as an option if the take rate falls below a point (say, 6%). With Corvette being 24%, the transmission is obviously an important part of the attraction. Why don't they wait until a Corvette generation has a take rate of under 10%, and then throw in the towel? They shouldn't give up at 24% rate. That's just nuts.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I don't think carb vs. fuel injection is a good analogy though, because for many it's a difference in the fun and involvement factor. I don't know how anyone could argue that for carb vs. FI.
I get that, although I know a few old timers who will rant and rave to anyone who will listen about how cars should still come with carbs, because they are so much easier to tune...

The manuals are fun, and in the past they've always had distinct performance advantages over torque converter autos. Now that performance advantage is gone, we're just left with personal preference. I hope it is enough to keep them around, but again I'm just being realistic in not thinking it will be enough.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:26 PM
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Like I said, I think you are right, but as long as they are around, that's what I'll choose regardless of brand. If I hadn't tried very hard to fall in love with, and prefer, the DCT or great TC auto and failed, I couldn't answer with such certainty.

Originally Posted by LarryFL View Post
Most car companies drop the manual as an option if the take rate falls below a point (say, 6%). With Corvette being 24%, the transmission is obviously an important part of the attraction. Why don't they wait until a Corvette generation has a take rate of under 10%, and then throw in the towel? They shouldn't give up at 24% rate. That's just nuts.
I agree. A 20% take rate on a model that sells at least 30K per year should not be taken lightly. Porsche doesn't, but I do agree it will continue to fall and eventually be gone. Even a 5-10% sales loss would be of great concern.

Last edited by Foosh; 03-07-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:02 AM
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It's one reason why I bought a C7. I was assured a manual transmission. Also, I only wanted the convertible. I was perfectly willing to wait the two+ or so years for a C8. If there's no manual, and no convertible C8, I'm pretty sure I'm good for a few years with my C7.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Red67John View Post
You might be right... Iím guessing a few die hards would buy something else. On the other hand, 20% of alll 2018 Corvettes were Arctic White. If white had not been available, how many buyers would have chosen some other white car as opposed to another color on the Corvette?
I bought Arctic White because the new C7 I was looking for equipment wise (M7 & vert) happened to be Arctic White.

..Arctic White wouldn't have been my first choice color wise, but I had to compromise by being flexible on color in finding an in-stock, in-State, heavily discounted new M7 vert.



..
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Old 03-07-2019, 04:43 AM
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ďIs Chavy making a mistake with auto-only C8 ?Ē

Whatís a Chavy?
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I don't disagree with you. I simply said I'd hold on as long as I can, and I just have a hunch they'll get a lot of blowback at least over the next 5, maybe up to 10 years. Thus, it wouldn't surprise me to see a manual return if it isn't initially offered that way. When Porsche drops it once and for all, that will be the clue that they're really gone forever.

I don't think carb vs. fuel injection is a good analogy though, because for many it's a difference in the fun and involvement factor. I don't know how anyone could argue that for carb vs. FI.
I understand the tech/engineering evolution (we know the new autos/DCTís shift much quicker; sensors detect driving conditions for shifting performance, etc) but similar to Foosh, my desire for a manual is my sense of ďfun and involvement.Ē The manual significantly heightens my driver engagement/involvement. I feel a greater sense of connectedness with the car when responsible for making and accurately executing shifts.
Iíve been a passenger a number of times with professional drivers (including Spring Mountain C6 ZR1) who execute shifts, both up and down (heel-toe) with exceptional smoothness and precision. That driving experience, to me, is thrilling/impressive. And thatís what Iím aiming to achieve when Iím in the driverís seat rowing the gears of a manual transmission.
Itíll never happen, but I like trying!
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:11 AM
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I think the take rate on manuals would have been lower on the C7 if it (C7) had offered a DCT instead of the A6/A8.

Last edited by jimmyb; 03-07-2019 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:13 AM
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IMHO, it comes down to this $$$$$. There's no free lunch with the manual transmission. It cost money to develop a manual transmission, it cost money to test a manual transmission and it cost money to maintain an option of a manual transmission. There's another factor that has crept into the cost analysis, residual lease value. Will manual transmission cars have a more substantial drop in value at the end of the lease? Not to mention, will adding a manual transmission result in a delay in launching the car. GM will weigh all those issues against the possible loss of sales if they stop carrying the manual transmission. If they're going to make money, there will be a manual transmission. If GM makes more money on slightly less sales, the manual is gone.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:17 AM
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No manual transmission is a deal breaker for me. When it comes time to replace the current Vette I have (or add another to the stable) if there is no proper manual available in the new ME car I will shop elsewhere. The marketing team and magazines can spout off about how much quicker the DCT or whatever they want to call the glorified automatic is and performance advantages are blah blah blah. Truth is I don't care. For me I enjoy rowing my own gears and no automatic gives me the same satisfaction. Hopefully all the rumors and speculation are wrong and they do offer the new ME car with a proper manual.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:20 AM
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No.
Less development cost.
Less technical training.
Has not hurt Ferrari sales going auto trans.
May "new" drivers can't drive a clutched car.
Yes.
Weekend fun cars are perhaps the 24% mentioned.
Demographics of Vette (& some Porsche) prefer clutches.
Intangible.
Vette owners always buy another Vette.
Other clutch choices IMO (other than Porsche) are not comparable to a Vette.
Traffic concerns.
Price.

FWIW I await the ME auto only or not.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:31 AM
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I drove an Acura GSR 5 speed for nearly 20 years and now I have an A8 Grand Sport. Don't get me wrong I love my GS but to be honest I really miss the manual. It is not even about old tech vs new tech or what is better. It is more about the feeling you get when you entire body is moving to get the car going. Left foot pushing the clutch while you time the gas with your right. Slamming the gear shift through the gears with your right hand as you steer with your left. The connection to the car can be very visceral. I miss it If they do have a manual option for the C8 I will probably go back to it...
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Old 03-07-2019, 09:26 AM
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I just want to say that a DCT is not an automatic, 90% of people that bash DCT have never driven one and once they do.....they actually change tunes - just because it has "paddles" doesn't mean it's a DCT.

A lot of my buddies talked crazy **** when I bought a car with a DCT (Z4 35is) until I actually let them try it - IMO DCT is still a bit "new" to the general public.
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