ME>three engineering issue being sorted out....?
03-09-2019, 11:33 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
I find it hard to believe the 60-70k price on a car with so much technology, the article's first sentence said they were dead wrong before so it really is just a guess what they think they know about the C8.
03-10-2019, 01:37 AM
#22
The following users liked this post:
WKM (03-11-2019)
03-10-2019, 09:50 AM
#23
There's always sometyhing in the works that maybe useful
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07989-y
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07989-y
Nanoparticle-enabled phase control for arc welding of unweldable aluminum alloy 7075
In the past I have been involved with the manufacture of curtain automotive items from 7075, such as flywheels, clutch and valve train parts. Problems can arise due to fatigue failure from work embrittlement and/or cyclic thermal loading of 7075. When these problems arise and they can not typically be designed and/or engineered around, we would have to drop back to say 7005 or 6061 alloys. Also don't count out specialty steel alloys - there are instances where 41XX or 43XX chromoly alloys or even say 8650 can be used to make a part which is actually lighter and as much as 3x times stronger than 7075 and most importantly can handle the cyclical loading. I would higher doubt that we would see say a fabricated 4130 chromoly sub-frame in a mass produced regular production vehicle due to the cost, but I have seen them offered as expensive custom aftermarket upgrades as well as being used in low volume stratospherically priced exotics.
Back on subject - the C8 Corvette engineers will or already have most likely just switched alloys used in casting of the subframe or space frame member and/or had to adjust the design element for added rigidity and integrity under extreme loading. What is surprising is that somewhere alone the line, someone didn't put in all the correct data into the FEM/FEA process. Most likely what happen was that someone made a "marketing decision" that only 800 HP was not going to be enough and that they needed 900-1000 HP, which was not part of the original design parameters.
Last edited by JHrinsin; 03-10-2019 at 09:55 AM.
The following 4 users liked this post by JHrinsin:
03-10-2019, 11:00 AM
#24
Somba master
03-10-2019, 11:19 AM
#25
Banned Scam/Spammer
GM has never promised a reveal or firm date for when the C8 can be purchased as some other members have mentioned in this thread. The GM haters rally around this type of unverifiable conjecture about electrical issues, frame problems, blah, blah, blah. Get over it, you'll see a C8 in full detail when GM has the car ready for the public. Gotta love the internet expert blow holes who just can't resist the opportunity to mouth off about how inept GM is and how this offering will be no good. Nothing like a good dose of internet stupidity for some cheap entertainment.
03-10-2019, 11:29 AM
#26
That is such BS. Just because a schedule isn’t public doesn’t mean it ceases to exist. You can try to nuance it all you want to convince yourself you weren’t wrong but...you were wrong. Simple as that. It doesn’t matter if it was public knowledge. Arguing differently is like saying if the car in front of you starts braking its stopping does not exist until an announcement is made. It’s happening independent and uncaring of your opinion on the matter.
03-10-2019, 11:51 AM
#27
Safety Car
Perennial concerns about flammability of magnesium is without justification and no longer is considered as part of a holistic material selection process. Magnesium is extensively used in the new Vette.
A new coating techniques such as plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) make a thoroughly resistant neutral oxide from the metal’s substrate.
In the past, Magnesium’s poor creep resistance had made it unsuitable for high temperatures, but new alloys such as ZE41 & ZWO8203 are heat resistant at extreme temperatures. PEO coatings also make magnesium extremely heat resistant. Magnesium’s low tensile strength had made it unsuitable for structural uses, but the new alloys and coatings mean this is no longer the case.
A new coating techniques such as plasma electrolytic oxidation (PEO) make a thoroughly resistant neutral oxide from the metal’s substrate.
In the past, Magnesium’s poor creep resistance had made it unsuitable for high temperatures, but new alloys such as ZE41 & ZWO8203 are heat resistant at extreme temperatures. PEO coatings also make magnesium extremely heat resistant. Magnesium’s low tensile strength had made it unsuitable for structural uses, but the new alloys and coatings mean this is no longer the case.
The following users liked this post:
68roadster (03-12-2019)
03-10-2019, 12:29 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
GM has never promised a reveal or firm date for when the C8 can be purchased as some other members have mentioned in this thread. The GM haters rally around this type of unverifiable conjecture about electrical issues, frame problems, blah, blah, blah. Get over it, you'll see a C8 in full detail when GM has the car ready for the public. Gotta love the internet expert blow holes who just can't resist the opportunity to mouth off about how inept GM is and how this offering will be no good. Nothing like a good dose of internet stupidity for some cheap entertainment.
03-10-2019, 12:30 PM
#29
Safety Car
Thank you - that is very interesting.
In the past I have been involved with the manufacture of curtain automotive items from 7075, such as flywheels, clutch and valve train parts. Problems can arise due to fatigue failure from work embrittlement and/or cyclic thermal loading of 7075. When these problems arise and they can not typically be designed and/or engineered around, we would have to drop back to say 7005 or 6061 alloys. Also don't count out specialty steel alloys - there are instances where 41XX or 43XX chromoly alloys or even say 8650 can be used to make a part which is actually lighter and as much as 3x times stronger than 7075 and most importantly can handle the cyclical loading. I would higher doubt that we would see say a fabricated 4130 chromoly sub-frame in a mass produced regular production vehicle due to the cost, but I have seen them offered as expensive custom aftermarket upgrades as well as being used in low volume stratospherically priced exotics.
Back on subject - the C8 Corvette engineers will or already have most likely just switched alloys used in casting of the subframe or space frame member and/or had to adjust the design element for added rigidity and integrity under extreme loading. What is surprising is that somewhere alone the line, someone didn't put in all the correct data into the FEM/FEA process. Most likely what happen was that someone made a "marketing decision" that only 800 HP was not going to be enough and that they needed 900-1000 HP, which was not part of the original design parameters.
In the past I have been involved with the manufacture of curtain automotive items from 7075, such as flywheels, clutch and valve train parts. Problems can arise due to fatigue failure from work embrittlement and/or cyclic thermal loading of 7075. When these problems arise and they can not typically be designed and/or engineered around, we would have to drop back to say 7005 or 6061 alloys. Also don't count out specialty steel alloys - there are instances where 41XX or 43XX chromoly alloys or even say 8650 can be used to make a part which is actually lighter and as much as 3x times stronger than 7075 and most importantly can handle the cyclical loading. I would higher doubt that we would see say a fabricated 4130 chromoly sub-frame in a mass produced regular production vehicle due to the cost, but I have seen them offered as expensive custom aftermarket upgrades as well as being used in low volume stratospherically priced exotics.
Back on subject - the C8 Corvette engineers will or already have most likely just switched alloys used in casting of the subframe or space frame member and/or had to adjust the design element for added rigidity and integrity under extreme loading. What is surprising is that somewhere alone the line, someone didn't put in all the correct data into the FEM/FEA process. Most likely what happen was that someone made a "marketing decision" that only 800 HP was not going to be enough and that they needed 900-1000 HP, which was not part of the original design parameters.
Magnesium is the new magic material. The cast magnesium engine cradle/ sub frame and front sub frame are the major structural components which are connected to the center carbon fiber backbone and the two hydro formed perimeter aluminum perimeter rails with magnesium die casted closures.
Magnesium is extremely light: it is 75% lighter than steel, 50% lighter than titanium, and 33% lighter than aluminium.
It has the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal, capable of withstanding 10x more than aluminium, titanium, or steel.
It is very easy to machine, and can be injection moulded. Magnesium is cheap tp to produce and is not toxic.
Magnesium is entirely biocompatible, posing no toxicity hazards. Aluminum is really crap stuff and very toxic.
The new car will be much cheaper to build and also much lighter. It will also much cheaper to repair. It will be a first in the industry. I designed and built a round tube tubular steel space frame fully certified car with the FG body bonded to the chassis.The insurance institute placed it in the highest rate possible. Italian exotics used square tube frames until the Murcielago. Mild steel is a wonderful material. I avoid aluminum. . A low cost car is worthless if it can't be repaired. The C8 will be at least 70% less to insure. The C7 won't be continued, but the new FE Vette will be constructed exactly like the C8 with extensive use of magnesium including engine block and drive train castings.
03-10-2019, 02:34 PM
#30
Drifting
If the dustup between design and human interface engineers is for real, then I hope the delay means that the engineers won. The C8 won't succeed if it repeats the Camaro's ridiculous sacrifice of visibility to design. That may work for a Lamborghini but not on a mass produced $65K car.
03-10-2019, 02:40 PM
#31
Drifting
GM designs cars for the stock holder first. This rules out exotic expensive materials. Another thing, Corvette insurance rates have sky rocketed since the advent of aluminum chassis so forget about Al 7075 and chromoly.
Magnesium is the new magic material. The cast magnesium engine cradle/ sub frame and front sub frame are the major structural components which are connected to the center carbon fiber backbone and the two hydro formed perimeter aluminum perimeter rails with magnesium die casted closures.
Magnesium is extremely light: it is 75% lighter than steel, 50% lighter than titanium, and 33% lighter than aluminium.
It has the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal, capable of withstanding 10x more than aluminium, titanium, or steel.
It is very easy to machine, and can be injection moulded. Magnesium is cheap tp to produce and is not toxic.
Magnesium is entirely biocompatible, posing no toxicity hazards. Aluminum is really crap stuff and very toxic.
The new car will be much cheaper to build and also much lighter. It will also much cheaper to repair. It will be a first in the industry. I designed and built a round tube tubular steel space frame fully certified car with the FG body bonded to the chassis.The insurance institute placed it in the highest rate possible. Italian exotics used square tube frames until the Murcielago. Mild steel is a wonderful material. I avoid aluminum. . A low cost car is worthless if it can't be repaired. The C8 will be at least 70% less to insure. The C7 won't be continued, but the new FE Vette will be constructed exactly like the C8 with extensive use of magnesium including engine block and drive train castings.
Magnesium is the new magic material. The cast magnesium engine cradle/ sub frame and front sub frame are the major structural components which are connected to the center carbon fiber backbone and the two hydro formed perimeter aluminum perimeter rails with magnesium die casted closures.
Magnesium is extremely light: it is 75% lighter than steel, 50% lighter than titanium, and 33% lighter than aluminium.
It has the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal, capable of withstanding 10x more than aluminium, titanium, or steel.
It is very easy to machine, and can be injection moulded. Magnesium is cheap tp to produce and is not toxic.
Magnesium is entirely biocompatible, posing no toxicity hazards. Aluminum is really crap stuff and very toxic.
The new car will be much cheaper to build and also much lighter. It will also much cheaper to repair. It will be a first in the industry. I designed and built a round tube tubular steel space frame fully certified car with the FG body bonded to the chassis.The insurance institute placed it in the highest rate possible. Italian exotics used square tube frames until the Murcielago. Mild steel is a wonderful material. I avoid aluminum. . A low cost car is worthless if it can't be repaired. The C8 will be at least 70% less to insure. The C7 won't be continued, but the new FE Vette will be constructed exactly like the C8 with extensive use of magnesium including engine block and drive train castings.
03-10-2019, 04:51 PM
#32
Safety Car
Not only that, but this tunnel will house the batteries for the recovery system which will have an electric motor for each front axle. K and maybe P is CF with aluminum side panels on the tunnel. P is removable.
03-10-2019, 04:55 PM
#33
Banned Scam/Spammer
03-10-2019, 06:52 PM
#34
Race Director
GM designs cars for the stock holder first. This rules out exotic expensive materials. Another thing, Corvette insurance rates have sky rocketed since the advent of aluminum chassis so forget about Al 7075 and chromoly.
Magnesium is the new magic material. The cast magnesium engine cradle/ sub frame and front sub frame are the major structural components which are connected to the center carbon fiber backbone and the two hydro formed perimeter aluminum perimeter rails with magnesium die casted closures.
Magnesium is extremely light: it is 75% lighter than steel, 50% lighter than titanium, and 33% lighter than aluminium.
It has the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal, capable of withstanding 10x more than aluminium, titanium, or steel.
It is very easy to machine, and can be injection moulded. Magnesium is cheap tp to produce and is not toxic.
Magnesium is entirely biocompatible, posing no toxicity hazards. Aluminum is really crap stuff and very toxic.
The new car will be much cheaper to build and also much lighter. It will also much cheaper to repair. It will be a first in the industry. I designed and built a round tube tubular steel space frame fully certified car with the FG body bonded to the chassis.The insurance institute placed it in the highest rate possible. Italian exotics used square tube frames until the Murcielago. Mild steel is a wonderful material. I avoid aluminum. . A low cost car is worthless if it can't be repaired. The C8 will be at least 70% less to insure. The C7 won't be continued, but the new FE Vette will be constructed exactly like the C8 with extensive use of magnesium including engine block and drive train castings.
Magnesium is the new magic material. The cast magnesium engine cradle/ sub frame and front sub frame are the major structural components which are connected to the center carbon fiber backbone and the two hydro formed perimeter aluminum perimeter rails with magnesium die casted closures.
Magnesium is extremely light: it is 75% lighter than steel, 50% lighter than titanium, and 33% lighter than aluminium.
It has the highest known damping capacity of any structural metal, capable of withstanding 10x more than aluminium, titanium, or steel.
It is very easy to machine, and can be injection moulded. Magnesium is cheap tp to produce and is not toxic.
Magnesium is entirely biocompatible, posing no toxicity hazards. Aluminum is really crap stuff and very toxic.
The new car will be much cheaper to build and also much lighter. It will also much cheaper to repair. It will be a first in the industry. I designed and built a round tube tubular steel space frame fully certified car with the FG body bonded to the chassis.The insurance institute placed it in the highest rate possible. Italian exotics used square tube frames until the Murcielago. Mild steel is a wonderful material. I avoid aluminum. . A low cost car is worthless if it can't be repaired. The C8 will be at least 70% less to insure. The C7 won't be continued, but the new FE Vette will be constructed exactly like the C8 with extensive use of magnesium including engine block and drive train castings.
I have a C7 (with an aluminum frame) and it is CHEAPER to insure my Corvette than my 2017 SS (not Camaro). So, where are Corvette insurance rates "Skyrocketing"?
BTW, NEITHER car is expensive to insure by any measure.
Last edited by jimmyb; 03-10-2019 at 06:54 PM.
03-10-2019, 07:52 PM
#35
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2011
Location: Holly Springs NC
Posts: 14,370
Received 1,609 Likes
on
1,037 Posts
St. Jude Donor '16-'17,'22,'24
Yup, when I updated from a 2004 C5 to a C7 back in 2016, my insurance agent checked the increase for me before I bought. The increase was $104/year. Not much of a skyrocket.
03-10-2019, 10:57 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
For all practical purposes, the Targa top is not used. I know we have a vociferous contingent on here who will tell us how much they use their Targa top. However, consider this:. Over literally thousands of Corvette sightings here in sunny Southern California, I have NEVERr seen a Corvette with the roof out. Not even once, and we have the best weather in the country.
There are too many compromises with the Targa top in addition to the loss of structural rigidity, and, in this case, strength, including squeaks and rattles, leaks, and no side head bags, which is really stupid in this day and age.
The following 3 users liked this post by Michael A:
03-10-2019, 11:22 PM
#37
Le Mans Master
I've seen several running roofless here in MO. 
The following users liked this post:
ArmchairArchitect (03-11-2019)
03-10-2019, 11:31 PM
#38
im trying to visualize this system, and why the engine would twist...
it must no longer be firmly joined to the rear diff? The torque tube on the FE cars prevented the frame twist on the cars. I would think a ME with a transaxle behind it would also be rigid and not twist. I'm missing something I guess.
it must no longer be firmly joined to the rear diff? The torque tube on the FE cars prevented the frame twist on the cars. I would think a ME with a transaxle behind it would also be rigid and not twist. I'm missing something I guess.
03-10-2019, 11:51 PM
#39
Le Mans Master
03-10-2019, 11:55 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
im trying to visualize this system, and why the engine would twist...
it must no longer be firmly joined to the rear diff? The torque tube on the FE cars prevented the frame twist on the cars. I would think a ME with a transaxle behind it would also be rigid and not twist. I'm missing something I guess.
it must no longer be firmly joined to the rear diff? The torque tube on the FE cars prevented the frame twist on the cars. I would think a ME with a transaxle behind it would also be rigid and not twist. I'm missing something I guess.
The following users liked this post:
Mikec7z (03-11-2019)
