Mikec7z

I would love to meet this guy before he or I die. I think he is by far the most creative human in the auto industry.

WICKEDFRC

Were the details of the C8 transmission released today?

Mikec7z

nah, but considering GM passed on teaming with Koenigsegg, and instead a chinese company did, to bring the Electro Magnetic / pneumatic valve cylinder heads to mass production in normal road going cars...

im going to go out on a limb and say, that chinese company will be getting the new Jesko trans at a discount that GM will not be.

GM royally missed the boat not teaming with Koenigsegg.

I believe he will have an affordable vette killer on the market in the next 4 years.

Shrike6

Koenigsegg, affordable? Nah. That transmission alone probably costs more than the entire C8.

ByByBMW

Mikec7z

the price he sells it at is a choice. The free valve technology cylinder head valve train, his goal is to have it on every combustion engine in the world in the next 20 years, because it brings emissions to carbon neutral and creates 20% more power and can deactivate any cylinder in a millisecond, so the fuel economy becomes amazing, and it also can adjust its "cam profile" for any fuel, in real time, from the 100 dollar flex fuel sensor that tuners already add to the c7's/

The transmission, GM could build their own, but they cant because he owns the patent on it most likely, so instead of getting into bed with the smartest car guy on the planet, they let a chinese company team up with him instead, and he and the Chinese company's goal is to release more and more affordable sports cars over the next few years, that use the valves i just described.

Any transmission is expensive when its RD costs are divided over 100 cars. Any trans becomes affordable when a major car company mass produces it. He says it has less gears inside and is simpler and smaller, weighs less and is stronger. Watch the video.

pdiddy972

These Chinese inexpensive sports cars - what brand would they be sold under in the USA?

Old School

Amazing what he can produce for such a relatively small company. Thanks for posting the vid.

AORoads

Rosy pic of a car co. with a good car, but I say, a questionable biz practice. This is the same person that walked away after signing an agreement to buy Saab from GM. And to say that the tech will now go to China is an-already accomplished fact. One of the reasons he walked away was because he was in financial difficulty and before walking on the GM deal, he got funding and a "partner" from a Chinese company, Read: capital. And that goes back a long time---almost ten years ago..

Maybe he's got tech expertise and I'm not doubting it. But his tactics are something of concern. That he was smart enough, or his lawyers were, to insert a get-out clause even after he signed with GM is good for him. But how about all his Swedish brethren who had no jobs---not so good, eh?

Let's see what GM and its other partners come up with....

Mikec7z

Thats just it... now that he has teamed with a chinese company, his electro magnetic valves are going to be media blackout here in the USA, just like Ali Pay and WePayChat (companies with products the usa knows are superior)

USA politically boycotts technology that we know is superior to our own.

Its going to be interesting when his valves are sold to the rest of the world, and USA automakers are the only companies NOT installing them on their cars.

Now that the chinese company has teamed with him, i believe they get a cut of the patent royalty money on the valves moving forward. I believe they had to invest 180 million to be part of his plan.

To think how many cars GM sells in china, and to think GM did not make this investment, when these valves make a pickup truck here in the USA destroy the competition, and also make the corvette gain 20% power and better fuel economy overnight (120hp on a z06)... its a true shame GM did not team with him when he was searching for a partner, and his pairing with the chinese company has occurred in under 2 months before now. It just happened. Tianjin is the name. They also are in sweeden where koenigsegg is. They are the ones who took over Saab.

I think he is brilliant, and I dont think many people on this planet need to kid themselves that they have outsmarted him or that he made a poor business choice. He came from nothing, and he has the most amazing sports cars in the world on orders of magnitude above ferrari and mclaren.

His brand name, is what he will keep on top. From there, everything else will fall into place. The saab company you speak of, the company who DID buy saab, and take that risk, he has kept close with, and they are the same company that owns Tianjin.

He is the one who invented the idea that the car needs NO transmission or clutch when it is hybrid electric, and to have the gasoline engine engage linkage to the cars drive shaft at speed X when RPMs of the 2 devices sync, after the electric motors do the initial acceleration. The combustion engine runs and charges the electric motor via the alternator, and then shuts off once the batteries are close to full while the car is below speed X. This is THE MOST effective way to do an electric hybrid car. Add the electro magnetic valves to the ICE, and it is game over, his technology laps the competition.

Why has no one else done it yet? he owns the patents. And while some may say he is greedy on what he wants to earn, it is only a matter of time before he gets his footing and then will demand even greater percentages. And those who do not pay it, will lose in the marketplace and become dinosaurs.

He wants to take over the world, just to prove he can. And im glad he is doing so. There is no substitute for invention and innovation, and no one on this planet does it at the pace he and his team do. Meanwhile, chevy is proud of themselves that they finally built something that can take down the ford GT. He took down buggatti to mclaren in his first 10 to 15 years in the industry. He will be fine. He can mass produce anything at any time... his passion is to invent and be out in first place. Those patents will cause his technology to pop up like wild flowers across this globe soon enough.

If GM had technological breakthroughs as fast as he does, there is no reason they would not start a supercar brand. If he can do it, any of the big 3 could also. But it takes a genius with the passion. GM does not have such a creature in their army.

Once you have the top supercar, or even a car in the top 3 supercars, you can sell hats and posters and sweatpants.

But GM passed on that opportunity... because they don't have a genius to take them there.

Corvette could receive all the trickle down tech. Imagine if GM had a time machine and offered Koenigsegg a salary of 5 million a year, and X budget, and he can run his own division. GM would OWN him, and GM would be the number 1 car company in the world, hands down.

I know that is unrealistic, and hindsight is 20 20. But im saying, koenigsegg himself is the key to the puzzle... and it does not matter what GM's budget or ferrari's budget, is or is not.... no amount of green paper can invent a car as quickly as he can with limited green paper.

Thus to say he is a fool to walk away from a deal? Nah, anyone who walks away from him and his monetary demands, was the fool.

GM lost. I promise you, unless they swallow their pride, and give the man what he demands... he will slowly but surely destroy everyone who does not team with him.

JerryU

Great detailed video! Note like everything with Koenigsegg the trans looks to have a Carbon Fiber case and could cost as much as a C8! No big deal as his cars cost several million. He has a lot of very innovative engineers. Recall the mechanism they developed for the Lambo doors, a mechanical engineers none powered dream!

Afraid the aluminum case Tremic DCT is what the C8 will be getting! They were probably prepared to show the transaxle version of the 7 speed DCT in Detroit BUT with the C8 pulled showed the FE Camaro, etc version. The C8 will look similar with an integrated dif. All efficient spur gears.

Koeningsegg's concept for a skip shift, as he said so you don't have to go thorough the intermediate gears sound simple to incorporate in most DCTs- don't need his elaborate trans! As I mentioned before, why not use similar Hall sensors as used in Rev Match? No need to have a mechanical link, just have sensors in a shift gate that, with a logic algorithm like rev match, puts the trans in the desired gear. Could look like a Ferrari gated shifter!

Sure there would be a automatic shifting position or switch when desired but like my preferred shift in the C7 when on the Interstate when I want to pass an 18 wheeler quickly, I just pull back on the gear lever, let the springs bring in to 4th, accelerate past and return directly to 4th! (Do that to limit exposure time to tire throwing rocks which the first month I got my 2014 Z51 one put a chip in my windshield!) As he said may even be a slower shift but so what! I'd also use it for my common 5th to 3rd downshift when making a turn in town, etc.

Just Sayn' Don't even need a 3rd pedal, although had a thought for that as well but only when taking off. Again as a simple switch NOT a mechanical connection, so here is no slipping clutch ready to connect when your foot goes on the gas.

Mikec7z

I agree that GM will have the rev match technology to allow clutchless shifting. I believe what koenigsegg will be awarded a patent on is how they put the extra gear shaft, and use less actual physical gears in the actual box, and use larger gears in the box.

So not only is it lighter, not only are the gears stronger (extremely important as cars become more powerful), but the whole system collectively is smaller. All keys to the big picture puzzle.

The trans can easily be made with the same materials GM wishes to use on the c7 and c8 trans box. Its carbon fiber case, while impressive, is not what is pattent'able profound about the Jesko transmission, and its carbon fiber case is not why i created this thread mentioning that I would want it in the c8. Make the housing out of steel, i would still prefer the jesko trans in the c8.

And to say it is more expensive to produce when it takes less material, has less moving parts, and has less gears, is a lie that most people are going to see though very quickly who have any common sense. No, it will not cost more than a c8, let alone more than the c8's transmission, if also mass produced.

mschuyler

Sounds an awful lot like Zero Point Energy devices being suppressed by an evil government in bed with Big Oil. Enough excuses. If he's going to do it, fine. Let's see it. Where's the beef?

JerryU

Yep having sold our company to one in Sweden (and worked for them for another 10 years, but when Sweden cut the Krona in half a few years after to increase exports, it was bought by a British finance group.) Swedes are good engineers and get many patents. Sure sounded unique and patentable to me.

Listening to his description, I was remined of my 1st and 2nd 7 speed before my 2014 Z51! My Dodge Colt Turbo had a twin stick 8 speed tans. It was a two speed overdrive behind a 4 speed. Since two gear ratio's were the same it was a 7 speed!

My 2nd was my 1st Vette, a 1988. GM was buying an old beefy 4 speed from Doug Nash who installed an electrically activated, sun gear overdrive in the tailshaft. It was activated with a buttom on top of the gear shifter, but not in 1st only in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. You could split shift (like the Dodge Colt) and get 7 unique gears. Did that occationally for fun but mosly used it as a 5 speed with 4 then 4th overdrive.

The Koenigsegg box just uses a combination of up to three gears combined to get the 9 different ratios. Complicated but has the advantages he outlined.

PS: I'd be confident it will work as his cars do. As he said they will blow up a few until they solve any problems. Very interesting individual and company!

Mikec7z

If you are talking about the electro magnetic controlled valves, understand, the world went down the "pure electric" path for the past few years... and everyone is coming off this high that pure electric is perfect. Hybrid electric will be the future, no one wants to get stranded or depend on a charging station waiting line to get fuel.

So people will use electric, but having an ICE in the car to charge the batteries will always be the way to go. Now that humanity is a bit more educated and aware of what they want and need in a vehicle, the spotlight comes back to his valves.

That is why he is making his moves now, and not earlier when tesla had the spotlight. VW and Porsche will kill tesla soon enough, that game is over. And i have been saying this, long before i saw the video above or video in the other thread where the guys talk about the 3 reasons for delays in the c8. As soon as porsche announced the Taycan, i knew it was game over for tesla over a year ago, and I have mentioned that before on this forum, months ago.

But the biggest reason koenigsegg has won is "emissions". Once countries MANDATE that emissions be below X, it only leaves manufacturers so many choices. And with unrealistic politicians on the loose, once they see what koenigsegg's technology can do, they will demand the same emissions performance from the Big 3 as well.

GM is really dumb not to be the first to help him bring his valves to market and mass production. Im talking... really dumb.

Should he strike a deal with toyota tomorrow, and then tell GM he wants a super high royalty number for the valves to be used on their cars.. there will come a day when GM will have to pay it.

They did not just "not make a deal"... lets be real, they created a vendetta. They made an enemy Because they told him his technology is not worth X dollars, and he is going to not only prove it is worth X, he is going to prove that GM will need to pay X plus Y to have the technology, moving forward. He is going to prove that he was right, and his demands were more than fair, and he is going to prove GM was wrong, and they are dumber than hell not to take his desired deal and be the first to market and also paying the least in royalty money of any other manufacturer of cars on planet earth.

Simple logic and human nature. Whatever deal he was giving GM to be the first to partner with him, is always going to be the lowest number he is willing to take on a percentage. Once he gets his financial footing from his upcoming venture in china, he will be able to ask more and more royalty money on this invention, and watch companies who don't pay it, lose their a$$es in govt epa fines. And my money is on him winning this ego match with GM. They crossed the wrong dude. Its like picking a fight with a guy who you know can build an A-Bomb AND a rocket that can go to the moon and back, and you know your team has failed to build either as fast as he his team has. "we've almost got a car better than the ford GT.. just give us another year, we had some delays!"

GM is REALLY dumb to cross this guy... really dumb

I also forgot to mention, you can spin the engine to the moon... the rpm can go as high as F1 cars with these valves, no problem.

And for those who believe in big oil conspiracies... ironically his valves allow big oil to become EPA compliant, so he has their backing, not their suppression. I just thought it was ironic you mentioned that.

... did i mention GM is REALLY dumb?

MitchAlsup

At the 8 minute mark he talks about being able to shift from 9th gear directly to 3rd gear without rowing through 8,7,6,5,4.
Which is what I have complained about in DCTs and got shot down about.

Then the fact it is lighter and smaller,.......

Mikec7z

... and stronger, and less moving parts.

But my rant above is about his electro magnetic engine valves... which is what GM should be writing a check for whatever he demands, to be first and his partner.

This transmission would have been an extra he would throw in.

THe guy is an inventor... not an accountant. He wants his inventions to succeed, he wants to be known as the one whos inventions beat everyone elses.

GM not understanding the amount of freebee's he would throw, after partnering with him, freebees that he just wants to get out there in a car that has his name on it...

Instead of the shelby mustang, you would have the Koenigsegg corvette.

nothing would make this guy happier than to sell a 100 grand car, that can kill a half million dollar or even 2 million dollar ferrari.

That is his goal... literally kill ferrari and lambo and porsche with a small line of cars

GM would have allowed him to accomplish that, GM is too dumb to understand what they passed on by not teaming with him. All the technology trickles to your pickups and tiny cars. GM is so so dumb.

And the amount of konigsegg corvette hats and tshirts people would buy when the car destroys everything under the sun.

So very dumb.

and thats all assuming he is done inventing..... hes not

He will accelerate at the rate he invents, because he and his teams minds are so full of useful info, that they cross reference things they know, that other manufacturers engineers at other brands, dont know, because those engineers are not working on the latest and greatest day in, and day out, like he and his team are.

He will not only be the number 1 supercar, he will soon have the number 1 volume selling sports car. He will take corvette's throne, i promise you its coming.

Michael A

Was this valve system discussed in the video?

Mikec7z

no... ill get you the link


Point is, when there is a "war", inventors are the number 1 most important commodity. ww2, we had tesla, and einstein, etc. and then after the war we gained von braun

Automakers are at war, and a patent, can make or break a company.

To say koenigsegg is done inventing, is like saying einstein is done making physics breakthrough, or like tesla or edison being "done inventing"

Its the opposite, as these superminds get their footing and get their fame, they take off and make more breakthroughs... when they are solo.

most inventors are not great social creatures. They dont all work well in teams or enjoy interviews for the public to see, they arent always good salesmen.

Koenigsegg is... he has no problem giving the spotlight to the OTHER inventors he brings aboard, and holding the Mic.

The people at GM are annoying nerds, super excited about mediocre breakthroughs compared to koenigsegg's, when i see interviews between the 2.

He does not care about politics or painting false pictures for board of directors, he invents, and he produces.

And he knows stupid people aren't going to know if an idea works or not, until its built and working in real life.

he and the team he assembles, will exponentially invent faster and faster, and this Jesko transmission is a perfect example. It was a quick side project, and it destroys every other transmission on the market.

GM could have einstein/tesla... but their ego says "we dont need you, we are bigger than you are, and we have more money than you do, youll fail without us"

no he wont. A BIG company, is simply BIG payroll, and when all the sudden another "tesla" comes out of nowhere that the public sees the value in, GM is IN THE RED OVERNIGHT, and begging uncle sam to save them again as they file BK.

Koenigsegg is tesla, he can kill everyone anytime he desires, but for him it is art... and he enjoys the invention process, and he is in no hurry to destroy eveyone else... he is just stacking patents, and once they have enough, no car company on the planet will even be able to contend.

A human is smarter than a million apes. An Einstein is smarter than 1 million humans when it comes to his area of strength.

Koenigsegg's area of strength is cars.. and i dont care how many people GM has working for them... its just like someone bragging to me how many animals there are in their zoo.

You will not out-pace this guy in the useful/profound invention process... he is only going to become faster. I don't care how many people GM has working for them.... his team is far superior.

Every increment of time that goes by, his lead in Intellectual Property will become larger and larger than everyone else's

And GM had the chance to partner with him first.

Tadge and Marry Barra need to go find a tall bridge and hold hands just before they jump off onto their imaginary swan that is going to carry them to safety since they found it logical to essentially tell this guy to "go pound sand" and not meet his demands for the most important alliance of GM's future.

JerryU

I posted this on another thread but fits your comment!

I speculated in jest that one reason for the long C8 delay is Mary Barra has told the Corvette managers, "No way we are going to announce a new ME Corvette with a pushrod 6.2 Liter V8 when Alfa has a 2.9 Liter V6 in their 4 door sports sedan with 505 hp that they already announced will have an extra 141 electric KERS option for 645 hp AND will save some of the 1/3 of the energy that gets to the wheels to power the car that is just wasted braking! At least introduce the Blackwing we're building in Bowling Green and tell the folks what we already let Andy Pilgrim leak that we will have something even better! Our electric, light weight, short duration hybrid will power the front wheels, save wasted braking energy and like Alfa just say –‘To be available soon!’ Do I have to do the marketing as well!"

"You folks are as bad as Ford Marketing who let the Ford GT announce it had 647 hp! At least they could have told the engineers to make another dyno run and find 3 more horses!"

Yep the above is in jest but when working full time as VP Marketing, my old boss, the CEO, would have said that in not so nice words! Like Marry Barra he was an engineer by training, understood our technology well and would have used similar but much tougher words!