So where's this 1,000 horsepower monster testing?
03-14-2019, 03:47 PM
#42
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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I think the whole story is BS.
The C7 Stingray makes 455HP. The C7 ZR1 makes 755HP. They share the same frame.
SO, now GM can't make a frame to handle 900-1000HP?
Also, I doubt the engine in this hyper C8 will be making that much HP. Probably more like 650 to 700 with 200+ HP electric motors up front. And if that is the case, then the twisting frame/cracking backlights sounds even more suspect.
But it is a good story....
The C7 Stingray makes 455HP. The C7 ZR1 makes 755HP. They share the same frame.
SO, now GM can't make a frame to handle 900-1000HP?
Also, I doubt the engine in this hyper C8 will be making that much HP. Probably more like 650 to 700 with 200+ HP electric motors up front. And if that is the case, then the twisting frame/cracking backlights sounds even more suspect.
But it is a good story....
If they are really testing a 800 hp ICE with a 200 hp electric FWD/brake energy recovery system (could be to test the hybrid, which IMO would be coming first to provide increased mpg with a lower powered engine) and it really cracked glass- so what! For the few $150,000, 1000 total hp systems they would sell a few years from now, like a ZR1, it would be easy to increase the thickness/section of a few frame members to offset!That is a big advantage of BG making the frames in house- very unusual for a car/truck assembly plant. Those two MIG robots (and a few semi-automatic MIG welders) we've seen in video's can be programed to weld whatever!
My only trip to the Bowling Green, when I went on a Plant tour and Museum visit was when we were going to the then Dana Tier 1 plant in the area. We had supplied ~125 microprocessor based robotic and semiautomatic (with a hand held MIG gun) that were welding Ford F-150 frames. We were also supplying the welding wire. Dana purchasing said Ford wants a 10% cost reduction and if you want to retain the business you'll do the same! Love automotive!
The C7 frame is made from some 10 castings, 38 extrusions, 76 stampings and 3 hydroformed sections. All welded together at Bowling Green. Likely the C8 will be similar. (And yes, unlike steel, aluminum castings are readily weldable!)
Last edited by JerryU; 03-14-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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SouthernSon (03-15-2019)
03-14-2019, 04:02 PM
#43
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
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We never found out why some 2014/2015 C7's could latch the hatch and some needed to have a door or window open! Yep, they switched back to what worked for the C6 etc in 2016 and put in a motorized pull down. BUT we never were told why some cars "worked as designed" and others did not. Perhaps they repaired enough paint cracked rear hatches from pressing to latch or more than the few reported on the Forum where the lower hatch frame cracked!
Would love to be a "bug on the wall" in those meetings were somebody said, "How could we build ~100 IVERS and never see this issue. Marketing hyped that magic memory wire activated vent and now we have to eat crow!"
Last edited by JerryU; 03-14-2019 at 04:10 PM.
03-14-2019, 04:15 PM
#44
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Some facts will come out when the C8 is introduced (and some but not all after!) Took 2 years to quantify why the C7 Z51 did not have a center air dam when my C6 Z51 did!
We never found out why some 2014/2015 C7's could latch the hatch and some needed to have a door or window open! Yep, they switched back to what worked for the C6 etc in 2016 and put in a motorized pull down. BUT we never were told why some cars "worked as designed" and others did not. Perhaps they repaired enough paint cracked rear hatches from pressing to latch or more than the few reported on the Forum where the lower hatch frame cracked!
Would love to be a "bug on the wall" in those meetings were somebody said, "How could we build ~100 IVERS and never see this issue. Marketing hyped that magic memory wire activated vent and now we have to eat crow!"
EDIT - Typically now I always leave the door open until I close it... I will continue to do that.
Last edited by RapidC84B; 03-14-2019 at 04:16 PM.
03-14-2019, 04:15 PM
#45
I'll add more speculation. ^^^ The motorized hatch motor has a slower hatch engagement (compared to manually shutting it) to prevent the cabin from pressurizing. As for why they initially opted for a manual hatch because it's cheaper and maybe due to tolerances some cars just didn't seal as good as others.
As for the 1000 hp model testing, i saw post on FB that someone posted a pic of a camo car testing in AZ. According to the poster it sounded a lot louder and different compared to the other models they were testing. Who know what it really was.
As for the 1000 hp model testing, i saw post on FB that someone posted a pic of a camo car testing in AZ. According to the poster it sounded a lot louder and different compared to the other models they were testing. Who know what it really was.
03-14-2019, 04:17 PM
#46
Seriously, the only production car I know that has 1,000+ HP is the Bugatti Veyron, (MSRP about $1.5M, give or take a gazillion or two). While I can believe the engineers may be pushing the design to failure (a good idea), I doubt we'll see a 1,000HP production car offered to the GP (a bad idea).
That said, a friend of mine reports that a !,000 hp car was seen testing at Loch Ness... (I'm just saying...)
03-14-2019, 04:55 PM
#47
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I have a 2014 w/o the pull-down. I've always just slammed it as instructed do. How/where are people cracking hatches? I follow the forum regularly and have not seen that. Is it from slamming or from pushing down on the top of the hatch to close?
EDIT - Typically now I always leave the door open until I close it... I will continue to do that.
EDIT - Typically now I always leave the door open until I close it... I will continue to do that.
However no way, no matter how hard I slammed would it latch. Initially I tried pressing in the center of the bottom hatch member. It obviously was flexing so stopped. Materials are my tech area and bending that much could not be good. Even composites have a fatigue limit!
I pulled my license plate and looked at the magic memory wire operated vent! You can see it though the opening. It worked fine- but no latching. From that day on I always opened the door 1st. When I sold it 3 1/2 years later still would NOT latch with the windows and door shut. BUT with a door open I could push with one finger from the side by my open door and it lowered and latched. The problem was obviously the pressure build up when closing. The power of small pressure differentials on large surfaces!
In 2015 there was a dealer bulletin that said test by lowering both windows 4 inches. If the hatch latches tell customer it's working as designed! BS by design as some cars did work. That bulletin also talked about losing the hatch part in the car and closing several times. Did that no help. Grease. No help.
At Museum pick-up some folks were told NOT to press in the center as there were reports of paint cracks! Looking at how much mine flexed can believe that. Mine was still bending BUT less but decided my door open method was safer!
Then two posters said their lower hatch frame cracked. Yep a small fatigue crack will increase in length at every high load and finally the crack will be visible. Replaced on warranty!
Then the motorized pull down in 2016! With doors and windows closed I usually have to push slightly but no frame bending. However Like you I was so used to having my door open I usually do that and close from the side with one finger!
Last edited by JerryU; 03-14-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Mikec7z (03-14-2019)
03-14-2019, 05:02 PM
#48
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Many posts from when I got my September 2013 built Z51 coupe. There was a video by a salesman who showed how to used the internal grab handle and with modest force it closed and latched.
However no way, no matter how hard I slammed would it latch. Initially I tried pressing in the center of the bottom hatch member. It obviously was flexing so stopped. Materials are my tech area and bending that much could not be good. Even composites have a fatigue limit!
I pulled my license plate and looked at the magic memory wire operated vent! You can see it though the opening. It worked fine- but no latching. From that day on I always opened the door 1st. When I sold it 3 1/2 years later still would NOT latch with the windows and door shut. BUT with a door open I could push with one finger from the side by my open door and it lowered and latched. The problem was obviously the pressure build up when closing. The power of small pressure differentials on large surfaces!
In 2015 there was a dealer bulletin that said test by lowering both windows 4 inches. If the hatch latches tell customer it's working as designed! BS by design as some cars did work. That bulletin also talked about losing the hatch part in the car and closing several times. Did that no help. Grease. No help.
At Museum pick-up some folks were told NOT to press in the center as there were reports of paint cracks! Looking at how much mine flexed can believe that. Mine was still bending BUT less but decided my door open method was safer!
Then two posters said their lower hatch frame cracked. Yep a small fatigue crack will increase in length at every high load and finally the crack will be visible. Replaced on warranty!
Then the motorized pull down in 2016! With doors and windows closed I usually have to push slightly but no frame bending. However Like you I was so used to having my door open I usually do that and close from the side with one finger!
However no way, no matter how hard I slammed would it latch. Initially I tried pressing in the center of the bottom hatch member. It obviously was flexing so stopped. Materials are my tech area and bending that much could not be good. Even composites have a fatigue limit!
I pulled my license plate and looked at the magic memory wire operated vent! You can see it though the opening. It worked fine- but no latching. From that day on I always opened the door 1st. When I sold it 3 1/2 years later still would NOT latch with the windows and door shut. BUT with a door open I could push with one finger from the side by my open door and it lowered and latched. The problem was obviously the pressure build up when closing. The power of small pressure differentials on large surfaces!
In 2015 there was a dealer bulletin that said test by lowering both windows 4 inches. If the hatch latches tell customer it's working as designed! BS by design as some cars did work. That bulletin also talked about losing the hatch part in the car and closing several times. Did that no help. Grease. No help.
At Museum pick-up some folks were told NOT to press in the center as there were reports of paint cracks! Looking at how much mine flexed can believe that. Mine was still bending BUT less but decided my door open method was safer!
Then two posters said their lower hatch frame cracked. Yep a small fatigue crack will increase in length at every high load and finally the crack will be visible. Replaced on warranty!
Then the motorized pull down in 2016! With doors and windows closed I usually have to push slightly but no frame bending. However Like you I was so used to having my door open I usually do that and close from the side with one finger!
03-14-2019, 05:46 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Yes, but you are on the wrong forum. Please re-direct to the "Official Internet Facts and Information" forum... (and when you find it, keep it secret).
Seriously, the only production car I know that has 1,000+ HP is the Bugatti Veyron, (MSRP about $1.5M, give or take a gazillion or two). While I can believe the engineers may be pushing the design to failure (a good idea), I doubt we'll see a 1,000HP production car offered to the GP (a bad idea).
That said, a friend of mine reports that a !,000 hp car was seen testing at Loch Ness... (I'm just saying...)
Seriously, the only production car I know that has 1,000+ HP is the Bugatti Veyron, (MSRP about $1.5M, give or take a gazillion or two). While I can believe the engineers may be pushing the design to failure (a good idea), I doubt we'll see a 1,000HP production car offered to the GP (a bad idea).
That said, a friend of mine reports that a !,000 hp car was seen testing at Loch Ness... (I'm just saying...)
03-15-2019, 01:26 AM
#50
Instructor
Hearing all these problems makes me worried and weary of this car. If they are still having these issues this late in the game, then who knows what will happen down the road. I'm starting to feel like I should drop the mic and make the C7 Corvette my last Corvette. Like with the Z06 cooling issues, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.................. you can't get fooled again. 
03-15-2019, 01:41 AM
#51
Hearing all these problems makes me worried and weary of this car. If they are still having these issues this late in the game, then who knows what will happen down the road. I'm starting to feel like I should drop the mic and make the C7 Corvette my last Corvette. Like with the Z06 cooling issues, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.................. you can't get fooled again.
Even if the c8 was REVEALED tomorrow, I would not find it logical to buy one for at least 2 more years... that would still only be its second production year, and that is when the z06 might come out... so i want its first year? No thanks. So make that 3 years from now, if it were revealed tomorrow. But it probably wont be until well past august.
03-21-2019, 12:22 PM
#52
Race Director
the problem wouldn't be the output but the torque. If they don't raise the rpm limit, which I suppose they wouldn't if they stayed with a big pushrod V8, they would have to raise the torque. Can't really see why anyone would consider raising the torque to the point where the frame starts flexing though, other than for testing purposes. That would just be incredibly poor engineering.
Again, it's a good tale, but laughable.
03-21-2019, 12:58 PM
#53
Racer
Could be a manufacturing defect versus a design defect. Who knows.
03-21-2019, 03:32 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
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JerryU (03-21-2019)
03-22-2019, 10:05 AM
#55
Race Director
^^^^
I know that. But, you have to admit this story sounds far fetched at best and made up at worst.
I know that. But, you have to admit this story sounds far fetched at best and made up at worst.